Ratcliffe attending on Sunday apparently.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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I'm increasingly concerned that EtH is here to stay for at least as long as it takes for us to be mathematically out of every competition.
There's been so much silence around this and I very much suspect he'll go nowhere even if we lose the next two games badly.
There's been so much silence around this and I very much suspect he'll go nowhere even if we lose the next two games badly.
No. In other posts I quoted specific examples of you using the exact same excuses that I had listed in a post taking the piss out of all the changing excuses Ten Hag defenders had gone through (injuries, not finishing chances etc). I don’t give credence to opinions based on how common or popular they are - I judge them on their merits.
Do you understand what strawmanning is? Your reply above suggests you don’t.
You claimed I said something I never said and tried using it that in an argument against me. That is textbook strawmanning.
To watch the match
If it’s interims you’re talking about then yeah because carrick wouldn’t be available for interim anyway. Which makes that conversation pointless.
‘We are in this (shit fest) together’
No to sharpen the guillotine.
Yep, quite likely.Ten Hag's PR machine back home has been doing some digging I see.
Erik Ten Hag 'we have been in transition for 3 years'
We have been hiding behind transition and projects. It comes from winning and not saying we are building for 3 years
We have been hiding behind transition and projects. It comes from winning and not saying we are building for 3 years
Obviously doesn't fancy Ugarte
Sadly, yes! ha. We have a few Nando's in Ireland but closest one is two hours away from me so it's kind of a thing I always do in England.The highlight of the trip was Nandos
There is that. I've never seen them play as bad I did Sunday.
Looks like he has reverted back to Eriksen, Casemiro, Bruno midfield
Making RvN interim for the remainder of the season would be a huge mistake and one which would see him sacked and us well into the bottom half of the table imo.
He’s not wrong.
Your memory is bad, so I'll remind you.
You gave hazy generalizations and chuckled at various categories of excusing the manager. I entered the debate, asked you to point out an example of me excusing the manager, and you came out with the beauty about Palace. This is where you shot yourself in the foot. You outed yourself as the very thing you accused me of - irrational and agenda driven, blinded by your stance of the manager rather than actually see what is being posted.
You seem to struggle to differentiate between a strawman argument and human error. I'm more than happy to say fair enough if you didnt think there's an operational reason to sack the coach (although I disagree).
But your logic that if I say I'd sack Ten Hag if results are unimproved by the internationals then I'm an opposition fan, whereas if the owners do it then it's fine - is stone cold bollocks. If you asked Andy Mitten right now, he would probably have the same opinion and hes well respected. This isn't about right or wrong, its about respecting the other view without resorting to sensationalism. Something you struggle with.
A true strawman argument is your example with the Palace post. You took it as an excuse for the manager when that is not the point or the assertion being made. The very definition of strawmanning. The irony of it all is you are trying to explain what it means to others.
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WOW, didn't realise it was that high
3rd season in and the only thing he knows is to go back to what worked in the first few months. Don't actually blame him.
Yeah that's a very valid concern
You’ve been making excuses for Ten Hag for the best part of the last year! Again, this goes far beyond one post. That was literally my point.
You can claim that was a one off error and not a deliberate straw man, but again, you have form of doing the same thing again and again over an extended period of time. Every time I end up in a back and forth with you I have to repeatedly say “no, I didn’t say that” and quote the evidence back at you before you move on.
No matter how persistently poor the results and performances may be, it seems likely now that ETH is going nowhere anytime soon.
And yet the illustrative example that I asked for from you is strawman logic - I find funny irony in that.
I'm not denying I was excusing Ten Hag for extended periods last season. My whole view was he had 1 good season, 1 bad season and I wanted to see this season. This was supported later by decision makers at the club at the time. We are probably wrong to back him but that doesn't mean the view was without any basis.
I have not excused him this season and I've held him accountable. You choose to "chuckle" at points I made that held him accountable, that acknowledged he was on thin ice and that said he needed results immediately. You selectively read post and seem to struggle with understanding the views of others.
Again, you are just generalizing. See above. I asked for a single example and you put your hat on something that was literally strawman logic. Then, you accused me of supporting another club because of logic thats consistent not only with decision makers but some other supporters. Good work.
I’d say it’s more likely than not that he isn’t manager this time next week.
Nah that’s just paper talk. That will be Dan Ashworths job i think
I refuse to believe this. He can’t just lose games indefinitely without repercussions.
Cant argue with any of that but my point still stands, the players need to do more too and actually put some effort in
Of course it's Ashworth, that's ETH's direct superior.
Same. 2 wins will buy him time but anything else and I think Sir Jim may pull the plug.
Yup, that's the fear. You know what some of our fans are like...
That’s not a straw man. You actually said those things.
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I thought McCarthy said he lacked charisma? Which has once again been shown by Mr One Blag* and his ad nauseam response.
*Follow me for more shit puns
Hiring you know, an actual experienced manager?As opposed to what?
I don’t think it’s a problem. They are set up horribly, have been for the last couple of years, and it shows. It’s no coincidence that every single player that joins us is almost immediately worse, and even the youngsters we brought through last year (Garnacho, Mainoo) seem like they aren’t actually making much progress either.
It’s also manager’s job to keep their players motivated.
I'm looking forward to losing 2-1, playing worse than the final score looks, Ten Hag saying we played well for twenty minutes, folk coming on here repeating it, other folk getting angry and making things up before they happen. I hate people who do that, almost as much as I'll hate us playing like shite tonight.
We will probably miss one or two chances and his backers will claim he can’t do anything if players keep letting him down.
it's like you only read 3 words out of my post? Besides that, his 3rd year only just started and 18 months ago (February 2023) people were still pretty positive about ETH, so my points would have been odd at the time, too.
And since I said it would make perfect sense to say goodbye to each other by now, seasons and dynamics also change. And since it literally is a new season with quite a new setup in seemingly core positions, it very much is at the start of a new foundation as well. Even if they just got Mbappe, Pedri and Rodri they wouldn't magically gel together into a CL-winning team in a new place, with Mbappe being an actual example at Madrid of needing time, even though Ancelotti is already there and so are most of his teammates. New season, new dynamics.
ETH doesn't particularly deserve a new chance, but since the season's just begun with many changes to the staff, club structure and, yes, the squad, it would be a bit ridiculous to go full tantrum now before deciding whether this is too close to unsalvagable.
Everyone would understand firing ETH this past summer and even right now, but leading any company would not show great leadership to go all Laurentiis and fire everyone if things don't go smooth-sailing in a very dependency-based field of profession. And if they do decide to fire him, at least have a plan ready to go in a new direction that doesn't make all decisions made over the past 3 months or so completely ridiculous. ETH has too many excuses nowadays, but they're not all completely based on absolutely nothing.
Again, it would make sense to let go off ETH, especially within football culture and particularly considering the way things have gone since about the second half of his first season.
But this summer they decided that the FA Cup win or whatever it actually was, was enough reason to see where the new setups could lead with him at the helm of the football team, so going this far now would be super dramatic.
It's a new season. Not a new manager, a new season. De Ligt is new, Zirkzee is new, Ugarte is new, Mazraoui is new, Amad (often) starting is quite new, Mainoo is super young and him starting is also quite new, Licha is just back, Shaw is Houdini, Casemiro, Mount, Eriksen, Rashford, Maguire and Bruno are doing some Houdini acts of their own, Dalot and Garnacho are not at the consistency or age to lead the team, Bruno is unreliable as at least a leading midfielder, Onana is still not consistent enough. And it all shows. Whether that's all ETH's fault? Probably at least partly, I doubt it being all on him. That's why I think it's ridiculous as a company that takes itself seriously to throw all your plans out the window two-three months after making them (WHILE announcing they were far from ready and to not expect consistency). You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't make throwing some random time frame without any context suddenly some common sensical neutral objectivity.
I can see this not getting any better, but I can also see it improving. As of now, no one knows what tomorrow looks like. You have no faith in it looking brighter with ETH there, I think if you put him in the sunlight, his bald head could reflect just in the right direction to blind their goalkeeper and have Zirkzee score his second goal because Hojlund missed his through pass. But that also sounds a bit ridiculous to me and might not happen in the slightest. Will find out tomorrow (but in actuality today, I guess?)
This cheap parody of Mourinho act is wearing thin fast
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