Drainy
Full Member
Very interesting thread on Twitter, quite promising despite the doom & gloomers
No we lost so everything is the same as last season
Very interesting thread on Twitter, quite promising despite the doom & gloomers
No, we pressed well, so even though we still lost and created fewer chances everything is all great this seasonNo we lost so everything is the same as last season
Understood.No, we pressed well, so even though we still lost and created fewer chances everything is all great this season
Well yes, waiting beyond two games is a very reasonable takeUnderstood.
We should wait beyond 2 games that mean anything after half your team missed preseason to see how the side develops.
A reasonable and mature take.
Thank you for helping me calm down from my strop
Understood.Understood.
We should wait beyond 2 games that mean anything after half your team missing preseason to see how the side develops.
A reasonable and mature take.
Thank you for helping me calm down from my strop
Very interesting thread on Twitter, quite promising despite the doom & gloomers
Yep, I agree with this. I am pretty sure this season will devolve into something similar to last season because nothing big has changed. I'll reserve full judgement until we're into September and players are fitter but all the signs are there again and we can continue making excuses or we can realise where the problem really lies.I'm not totally disheartened yet, I want to see a few of the future starters start and a better first 11 before I totally lose it. But as someone who still thought long term it made sense for Ten Hag to go even after the cup win, I think I'm already viewing this season through a different lense anyway.
The bolded part is very valid point. I'd argue one time our pressing worked really good was with Fred and Weghorst in the team, it caused a lot of turnovers that led to goals or at least dangerous situations. That was EFFECTIVE pressing, not bodies running around for the sake of it (Bruno, Hojlund kind).
Now, I still question this "we want to press high" approach. It's very clear our pressing structure relies on Mount, but once everyone is fit there isn't even a place in starting XI for him (although I would suggest rotating him and Bruno). So are we going to be a high pressing team only for the period when Mason is playing? Not that it's super effective anyway as you pointed out.
Very interesting thread on Twitter, quite promising despite the doom & gloomers
Understood.
We should ignore the previous entire two seasons of football which set clear patterns — lack of chance creation, poor in game management and substitutions, consistently conceding late goals (typically at the back post) — see these patterns emerge for a third season running, and disregard them because half the team didn’t get to play on a pitch in California?
When are we allowed to start critically assessing him? Once we’ve signed de Jong, Tadic, and Tagliafico next season? Oh and only if they’ve all had preseason?
People mentioning fine margins etc. Yep yesterday nearly went our way. But so many games being fine margins isn't a plan, isn't sustainable, and after three years to still have so little control in matches is woeful coaching and management.
Because we still haven’t been coached any sort of attacking/final third combinations or patterns.I don’t understand why we still don’t make many chances. The final pass or decision is so fecking poor. We still don’t create anywhere near enough.
He has changed the system. We were playing 4141 last season, whereas this season so far we're playing more a 4222 or 4231.This.
It was hilarious how some were deluding themselves after a wallpaper over cracks win last week that ETH has changed the system (when he himself admitted that the system is actually from last season) and that he has fixed up alot of issues from last season which as we saw yesterday, is a load of rubbish. Marginal improvements aside, it is the same old issues from last season that are still evident.
He hasn't learnt a single thing about what it takes to have success in the league, and instead of adapting/innovating, he is doubling down on a flawed game plan.
Because we still haven’t been coached any sort of attacking/final third combinations or patterns.
Still heavily relying on Ole type transitional moments.
Look at the way Ange’s team attacks. With the heavy emphasis on quick wing combinations and low driven cut backs.
Emery’s team attack with central combinations and midfield ball carriers from deep and in the channels combining towards the final third.
What about ETHs Utd? Apart from the press which is significantly better after 2 years? It’s make or break time, and he’s been given more time than most.
Very interesting thread on Twitter, quite promising despite the doom & gloomers
He has changed the system. We were playing 4141 last season, whereas this season so far we're playing more a 4222 or 4231.
Does that mean we're playing well? Absolutely not. But we're also not as chaotic and ridiculously easy to play through for the opposition. It'll still happen, especially late on in games as our midfield tires (neither Casemiro nor Mainoo can play at high tempo for a full 90), but it's not a fundamental problem with our entire structure like it was last season.
Damn it is this confirmed? Really enjoyed what he brought to the team in the first half.Structure on and off the ball is improved on last season.
We have been wasteful and EtH has brought in a fresh set of coaches. Part of Ruuds remit is surely to help improve the sides finishing and decision making. It's not going to happen over night.
Unfortunate yesterday that Mount picked up an injury as he was working well in the system 1st half.
If he wanted us playing 4222 last season, he utterly failed to implement it as we certainly weren't playing that. We basically played one midfielder and expected him to cover half the pitch by himself and opposition teams could just run through us all game, every game. This season so far we're playing more compactly, so it is different than last season.You are talking about formations. The system/style or whatever you want to call it is essentially the same. Also, ETH last week said he used 4-2-2-2 last season as well.
I dont know what games you have been watching but the football is still chaotic and lacking control and we are still open in midfield to play through for long periods with limited creativity so the same exact issues are still there.
Southgate would be the polar opposite of a gamble. It’d be the most nailed on 8th place finish possible.Did not get that at all from the posts.
Thought 'eamonhigh' was clever enough to state EtH was not some new Ferguson and clarified any comparison was based on the religious cultists amongst our support, who would demand a manager, in his first season with so much nonsense going on around him, be sacked a week after he won the club's first trophy in six years.
It's the same as those devout supporters demanding Ferguson be removed in the late 80s.
I've noticed the poster bemoans 'tactical naivety', indeed, 'the biggest tactical naivety he'd ever seen' whilst demanding we sack a manger and not recommend a practical replacement. Refused outright to assess the role of injuries, too. Likely thinks that is on the 'medical team'.
Encouraging Ineos to 'gamble' with managers is dangerous folly, and would justify the likes of Ashworth in hiring Southgate. Or Woodward giving Ole the job full- time.
Practical solutions, only, not knee-jerk sackings and hopeful punts.
The serious problem at United is chance conversion.
It's all well and good to dominate midfield, but we need to put whatever we create away.
Happens often. We'll not take chances and eventually get punished as the frustration grows. Leaving three players unmarked at a corner yesterday is not something coached.
Yesterday's subs were curious. Went in a goal down despite playing well. EtH made the right subs but bringing on McToM was quite clear the forward line had busted, and needed The Lancastrian Highlander to emerge and nick one for us. It's worked before but really ought never have to. But profligacy will force our hand.
Hiring RvN is quite clear EtH does not trust the forward line, and nor should he. We are still profligate.
Sacking EtH and taking a hopeful punt on, for example, Glasner, doesn't and won't change the clear mentality issues at play.
If he wanted us playing 4222 last season, he utterly failed to implement it as we certainly weren't playing that. We basically played one midfielder and expected him to cover half the pitch by himself and opposition teams could just run through us all game, every game. This season so far we're playing more compactly, so it is different than last season.
Like I said, we're not playing well. It's just that saying that this season is the same as last season is understating just how incredibly bad he set us up last season. From the start of preseason through to the last couple of games of the season was literally one of the worst managerial performances I've ever seen, and he is unbelievably lucky that we didn't sack him. It wasn't just the coaching and the style of play; the entire structure and set-up of the team was broken on a fundamental level and simply could not ever work. This season (so far at least) we've still got significant issues but I wouldn't say that the entire set-up is broken. Over the course of the season I expect us to perform a fair bit better, even though the signs are that it still won't be as good as what it should be.
De ligt, yoro, maz Zirkzee all just as suited to possession. Only ugarte isn’t.But I'm worried that they're giving him these players that suit counter attack football, Thus making it hard for the next guy. I hope they have this long term plan as you say but I'm not sure
I'm not buying it, his laughable ineptitude is there for everyone to see.
I don't think we're good at counter attacking at all. We've lost that edge.
That directness.
The indecision amongst our forward players, when a counter arrives, is another frustrating aspect in our play.
Honestly, I swear people only watch United games sometimes. If they're content with this, then there's no hope for the club getting back to any form of success.
Yep. Anyone trying to find positives out of that yesterday is kidding themselves on.
I could see us getting slapped by Liverpool next week. 3 points out of 9 to start the season. Grim.