Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[eamonhigh]

If Joe thinks the manager has so little influence on a teams defensive structure and concentration levels, especially after 2 years then he must also wonder what the point of having a manager even is. Now don't get me wrong I know what he's saying to try to defend ETH here and I don't blame Ten Hag for those mistakes individually but the problem we keep making mistakes and shipping late goals and it's been happening for years now. At some point we have to start asking questions of the manager.

What Joe realises is no matter how a team is coached, it comes down those playing the game to get it right.

We keep shipping late goals and failing to take chances, yes, but that is on the players and their commitment. Their mentality is wrought.

I agree EtH's game management is not great, but usually it is because we are chasing the game, and chasing it mainly because of missed opportunities and a lack of focus.

The simple solution is to do 'what should have been done last May', sack the coach, bring in Mr 'Positive Vibes', tighten up, spend and watch as the next generation fail to take us any further.

We've had a plethora of 'EtH out' narratives yet nobody willing to stick their neck out and name a plausible and sensible replacement.

I think we looked good before Brighton's first goal. We pressed well and they had very little meaningful posession.

However, we can't play with Bruno and Mount every game because we lack attacking impetus even more than usual, so what will that look like with Zirkzee / Hojlund in the team?

As promising as the press was, too often Joao Pedro picked up the ball between our defence and midfield because Maguire and Martinez did not follow through with the press and sat off too deep. This is where the whole thing continously breaks down, and ends up in Casemiro and Mainoo looking like a couple of lads trying to complete the bleep test, and ultimately our midfield runs out of legs after 60 minutes.

This is no new phenomenon under EtH, which is why 2 games in there's very little sympathy, and dare I say that the knives are already out for him.

Yep, we 'look good' and do not capitalise.

Then we become reactive. Reactive tactics and reactive substitutes.

Taking chances and protecting leads were the primary tactical concerns, and despite management changes and supposedly smarter recruitment, the mentality issues which antedate EtH continue, with the same 'solutions' posited from the disgruntled fanbase.

Recipe for disaster.

 

[macko12345]

Players have to turn up vs Liverpool, as they did in his first season, after the two losses.
I understand if he's accused of wrong tactics etc but the second goal is just unacceptable. Its got nothing to do with tactics or ten Hag. Thats something you learn U14's
You don't switch off, and keep both posts covered.

 

[Bobski]

I think he has lowered my standards, so much so that I actually think the first 2 games have been okay (They have not been good by any stretch as some are painting it to be and we have certainly not been in “control” for any long stretches).

In a few more games we’ll know clearly whether we’ve set ourselves back once again by deciding not to move off of him.

Standards have been lowered, 98% of last season was so hopelessly shambolic that it became astonishing that he hadn't been sacked, Fa Cup kept saving him, Liverpool wasting countless 4 on 2 breaks to put Utd away before Bruno at CB chaos football got Utd a win, millimeters from being utterly humiliated by Coventry, City on the piss for a week.

Great resilience in the final for all of that and no little quality but that midfield he stuck with for 50 games... Were told it was important for the development of the team but now it has been chucked for a more sensible and compact shape, so what exactly was the point of sticking with it for so long? What did it gain Ten Hag? Hard to trust his vision for the club.

 

[3KDré]

Very interesting thread on Twitter, quite promising despite the doom & gloomers

I agree with our press being better, however there was a noticeable drop off as soon as Mount was off the pitch. We also looked a bit toothless in attack. This doesn't mitigate our overall systemic issues.

I actually do think we look better this season. More solid, more organised, better press. My wider issue is I don't see enough evidence that Ten Hag is the one to take this team to the next level. Nor do I believe, for what we have afforded him (not just money but power, control) we have been returned enough.

Does this mean I am doom and gloom?

 

[Daydreamer]

There's no takeaway that can be made two gameweeks in.

Surely there are some takeaways that can be made two seasons in, though?

Anyway, I think United looked more solid than the majority of last season.

 

[Robindinho]

2 years of excuses and it's still crap...

Ta-ra Hagie.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I agree with our press being better, however there was a noticeable drop off as soon as Mount was off the pitch. We also looked a bit toothless in attack. Overall, this also doesn't mitigate our overall systemic issues.

I actually do think we look better this season. More solid, more organised, better press. My wider issue is I don't see enough evidence that Ten Hag is the one to take this team to the next level. Nor do I believe, for what we have afforded him (not just money but power, control) we have been returned enough.

Does this mean I am doom and gloom?

It's a lot easier to press when you are playing with 5 players in midfield and no striker, with a very deep back line.
But we need to be able press like that with a striker and a high back line, specially against teams like Brighton.

 

[BabySinclair]

Surely there are some takeaways that can be made two seasons in, though?

Anyway, I think United looked more solid than the majority of last season.

Of course we looked better and more solid yesterday than last season.

BUT
- Last season was soooo terrible....our performance yesterday was good but nothing special.
- Ten Hag is now in his third season and there is still no clear plan or playing style.
- We are making still the same mistakes.......his subs were big mistakes too because everyone could see Casemiro and Mainoo were tired after 80 minutes.
- We are conceding so many goals in the last minutes under him because there is a fitness problem and we can't keep the ball.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

I'm starting to think consistency is key to why we retained EtH.

We're back all over social media as memes once again. Consistent! Manager is doing his job and don't forget how disappointed he was because we could have got a draw!

 

[3KDré]

It's a lot easier to press when you are playing with 5 players in midfield and no striker, with a very deep back line.
But we need to be able press like that with a striker and a high back line, specially against teams like Brighton.

Couldn't agree more.

Ultimately it depends what you expect of your manager. For me, to be a top team again we need to control games consistently, especially against teams worse than us. We need to also be able to break down a low block. We aren't moving towards that, in my opinion. I didn't expect him to win us a title, I just expected him to lay the foundations for what I just said. But he hasn't. So I see no need to keep him.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Couldn't agree more.

Ultimately it depends what you expect of your manager. For me, to be a top team again we need to control games consistently, especially against teams worse than us. We need to also be able to break down a low block. We aren't moving towards that, in my opinion. I didn't expect him to win us a title, I just expected him to lay the foundations for what I just said. But he hasn't. So I see no need to keep him.

Agree. He is afraid of losing his job now I think, and has reverted to a low back line with no striker. He paid 50m for a goalie that is supposed to be good with a high back line, yet last night he never left his line against no disrespect but bloody Brighton not Real Madrid.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Totally agree. When does he become responsible?

In general terms we were unlucky yesterday. It's a game which either side could have won and this is just the level we’re at - as good as, but not better than a Brighton. We're at best, an upper mid-table side.

I think our subs were poor and it cost us in the end. Brighton made substitutions to win the game, and they won it. Fair play to them. ETH makes poor decisions in selection and substitutions and at the elite level that costs you.

I think it was the wrong call sticking with ETH, especially if it was simply because they weren't convinced by other options - and taking up his option, rather than actually backing him with a new contract indicates that's the case. It's an odd situation.

That's the million dollar question, isn't it? After yesterday's game I've been seeing a lot of posts in here saying his system will need time to implement and he deserves patience as a result - as if we're in season 1 of his tenure and he's just getting started.

 

[VP89]

Surely there are some takeaways that can be made two seasons in, though?

Anyway, I think United looked more solid than the majority of last season.

Im addressing this point

"or in his third season at United hasn’t managed to tactically set up his team to a level that comfortably exceeds that of Brighton."

Far too early to suggest what he can and can't do in season 3.

 

[croadyman]

How many rounds into the season until we can get a poll going.

(He shoulda been fired in December last year.)

Can get one going now, my vote would be exactly the same as it was after the 7-0

 

[Gordon S]

I agree with our press being better, however there was a noticeable drop off as soon as Mount was off the pitch. We also looked a bit toothless in attack. This doesn't mitigate our overall systemic issues.

I actually do think we look better this season. More solid, more organised, better press. My wider issue is I don't see enough evidence that Ten Hag is the one to take this team to the next level. Nor do I believe, for what we have afforded him (not just money but power, control) we have been returned enough.

Does this mean I am doom and gloom?

Not sure we have any kind of evidence of this?
We had a run of 5-6 weeks where we played mostly well after the world cup in his first season. A run that culminated in a rather impressive win over Barcelona. It made me think for a second that we might have something cooking on the stove here. But shortly after that we could all smell what was cooking, it was yesterdays diapers. That stench has been stuck in the kitchen ever since really.

 

[TsuWave]

At least we competed well and almost earned a draw against a Brighton that we lost to quite resoundingly the previous 4 times. One has to see the improvements and the process that ETH is putting in place and the progressive patterns of play that are responsible for this instead of impatiently calling for his head and casting doubts on the team this early in the season.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Watching the Chelsea match right now and find it hard to believe any manager who watched both Madueke and Antony in the same league would decide the latter is worth more than three times than the former.

 

[DownRiver]

Can you honestly tell me we have the top 10 managers in the world? He is not even top 5 in the PL.

Unless something miraculous happens in playing style, he will leave by Nov/Dec.

 

[3KDré]

Not sure we have any kind of evidence of this?
We had a run of 5-6 weeks where we played mostly well after the world cup in his first season. A run that culminated in a rather impressive win over Barcelona. It made me think for a second that we might have something cooking on the stove here. But shortly after that we could all smell what was cooking, it was yesterdays diapers. That stench has been stuck in the kitchen ever since really.

Yes. I've said this before. Whenever we have played closer to what he wants - it has been an unmitigated disaster. There's been two instances : when he first came in (Brighton and Brentford) and last season.

Ironically, the trophies we have won which he cites as success, both have also come when he abandoned his philosophy and we played counter.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I agree with our press being better, however there was a noticeable drop off as soon as Mount was off the pitch. We also looked a bit toothless in attack. This doesn't mitigate our overall systemic issues.

I actually do think we look better this season. More solid, more organised, better press. My wider issue is I don't see enough evidence that Ten Hag is the one to take this team to the next level. Nor do I believe, for what we have afforded him (not just money but power, control) we have been returned enough.

Does this mean I am doom and gloom?

Not at all. I think a lot of fans ( myself included) are in the same position. This season is make or break for ETH. I've seen some improvements but not even close to enough for the time and money spent.

 

[lex talionis]

A young scholar could write his dissertation on how the wheels come off yesterday but we have limited space here on what I genuinely regard as the best United forum on the planet.

But I will say this — we were pressing in stoppage time and easily got bypassed. The point is that the players are drilled to execute a plan but are badly lacking situational awareness.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

"At least we competed well and almost earned a draw against a Brighton"

 

[stevoc]

It isn’t saying much. But the improvement is there, and that’s all we can hope to see. The idea that with our transfer business and the new coaching changes in place for about 3 weeks we’ll be dramatically improved is fanciful at best.

Better structure and consistency of performance should give us better results over the long term. But there will likely be more bumps in road short to mid term.

Whether that happens quickly enough for Ten Hag to continue as manager who knows. I am hoping it’s enough to see him in place until the end of the season with a finish of 4-6 position and reassess from there. I can’t see a mid season change improving our lot at all.

That's your hope?

That's a bit depressing to be honest, no offence intended I know what you're saying.

For me if he doesn't come top 4 at least this season then he has to go, it's as simple as that. After 3 seasons, 3 pre-seasons, 6 windows and £500-600m spent we really should be comfortably a top 4 side at the very least by that stage.

 

[bosnian_red]

I do wonder how long of a leash he has. If we don't see big improvements from last season, could he be sacked before Christmas? The October international break? I feel like we partially got Ruud in to be covered in the manager department just in case Ten Hag can't get us going. Depressing, if not surprising, that we are thinking about this on the 2nd game of the season.

 

[Redstain]

This narrative keeps popping up. Brighton are a very well drilled team tactically, they have been for years. Bringing in whoever as a replacement isnt going to change this in 2 games.

Then how do you explain the theory of new manager bounce?

Short-term change in management oftentimes does bring significant changes especially at club's with lesser resources as it's easier to implement and players who aren't higher profiles being more receptive to instructions compared to those with egos.

Brighton have been a totally different outfit under Potter and De Zerbi with almost no similarities between the philosophies of managers.

They were far more defensively organized yesterday that's why United produced very little for clear cut chances and they didn't press high and look to control the game. Even in the fixture towards the latter end of last season they had more possession and controlled larger periods of the game despite United winning.

There was considerable differences.

 

[Salford_Red83]

We have been a shambles of a team since a few games before we won the League Cup 2 years ago. That's when I started to have my doubts, and last seasons absolutely pathetic showing solidified for me that he should leave.

Even after winning the FA Cup he should have gone.

I don't know why or how he got a stay of execution but whatever, ok he's still here. Fine.

Then pre season we were our same terrible self (even if the team wasn't full strength, it doesn't matter, it is ultimately a reflection of the manager on the pitch and whoever you play should be able to slot in and play to the philosophy of the manager).

And now, 2 games in we are already looking at writing the season off because we stuck with him and whatever the hell he thinks he's working towards.

I swear I do not see what others see in him and his supposed plan.

 

[stevoc]

What Joe realises is no matter how a team is coached, it comes down those playing the game to get it right.

We keep shipping late goals and failing to take chances, yes, but that is on the players and their commitment. Their mentality is wrought.

I agree EtH's game management is not great, but usually it is because we are chasing the game, and chasing it mainly because of missed opportunities and a lack of focus.

So Ten Hag isn't responsible for the levels of concentration, focus, commitment, mentality etc amongst the players that make up the squad which has largely consists of players that he's bought/promoted and that he's been coaching for 2 years?

He's now signed or promoted what 17/18 members of the current squad.

The simple solution is to do 'what should have been done last May', sack the coach, bring in Mr 'Positive Vibes', tighten up, spend and watch as the next generation fail to take us any further.

So better to just stick with one manager regardless of the results or performances for years and hope it all somehow just comes together one day?

We've had a plethora of 'EtH out' narratives yet nobody willing to stick their neck out and name a plausible and sensible replacement.

There were threads and polls discussing multiple potential replacements.

 

[Leftback99]

I do wonder how long of a leash he has. If we don't see big improvements from last season, could he be sacked before Christmas? The October international break? I feel like we partially got Ruud in to be covered in the manager department just in case Ten Hag can't get us going. Depressing, if not surprising, that we are thinking about this on the 2nd game of the season.

I still think the biggest reason he's still here is the cost (of sacking and replacing him). If we were as loaded as we used to be he'd be under more pressure.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

"At least we competed well and almost earned a draw against a Brighton"

I've mentioned this a few times, but a shockingly large portion of our fanbase talks about our club as if we were the likes of West Brom or Numancia and we should just be happy to be allowed to play in the same league as the big boys.

 

[VP89]

'That is on the players and their commitment'. 5 of those players on the pitch yesterday played for ETH at Ajax and were brought here because of him to the tune of £220m.

So even if you believe that utter nonsense that the manager is blameless, it's still all on him really because he brought players who cant follow his instructions and cant focus.

Unsure if either goals were on the ex Ajax players to be fair. Maguire lack of agility in stopping a cutbacks and Dalot running into Mazraouis position vacating LB.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

It was a huge collective failure. But aside from Dalot and McTominay ETH signed or promoted every player on the pitch. And it was the same for the other capitulations last season against Chelsea, Brentford etc.

Dalot is pound-for-pound the best footballer at the club right now (best relative to position) and McTominay is the difference between us finishing 7th and 12th last season.

Rashford and Bruno aren’t his signings or promotions either.

 

[Salford_Red83]

What Joe realises is no matter how a team is coached, it comes down those playing the game to get it right.

We keep shipping late goals and failing to take chances, yes, but that is on the players and their commitment. Their mentality is wrought.

The team and squad is the majority ETHs players now. It is now his team, a reflection of him and his philosophy on the pitch.

He has had his time, his excuses and his chances and we are seeing no improvement. This is his level and things are not suddenly going to improve.

 

[BeretWearingEnt]

That's your hope?

That's a bit depressing to be honest, no offence intended I know what you're saying.

For me if he doesn't come top 4 at least this season then he has to go, it's as simple as that. After 3 seasons, 3 pre-seasons, 6 windows and £500-600m spent we really should be comfortably a top 4 side at the very least by that stage.

What’s gone before is gone. “He” hasn’t spent anything, I’ve never understood that view. It’s not football manager, one person doesn’t identify a gap, scout, negotiate, write the cheque for the purchase, and negotiate the wage. The previous two seasons with the previous leadership are irrelevant.

New leadership have put some foundations and benchmarks in place. They’ll want to see how everything settles down is my guess.

I get the view that it’s top 4 or bust, I just don’t share it. Mainly because I don’t think it helps anyone. Improving every aspect of our play between now and Christmas will see us in a good league position to challenge for top 4.

Shouting Ten Hag out every time we play poorly or lose a game doesn’t achieve anything. He’s here right now so we may as well support him and the club we all love, and hope for the best. You may think that’s depressing, I just think it’s the reality of where we are.

 

[VP89]

It was a huge collective failure. But aside from Dalot and McTominay ETH signed or promoted every player on the pitch. And it was the same for the other capitulations last season against Chelsea, Brentford etc.

Dalot is pound-for-pound the best footballer at the club right now (best relative to position) and McTominay is the difference between us finishing 7th and 12th last season.

It wasn't a huge collective failure. First goal should have been easily dealt with if not from human error by Maguire. The second goal was shortly after a corner where Dalot ball chased and vacated his left back position, leaving two Brighton players camping at the back post.
The next closest to them was McTominay, who was also not an Ajax player if you're curious.

Dalot has been a very good asset for us but he made a mistake for the second goal. I disagree he's the best pound for pound footballer we have, but I agree he's much improved.

Ten Hag himself said we need to do better in both boxes and I agree with this sentiment. Broadly speaking we aren't as poorly drilled defensively as people are claiming. I've seen Raya bail out the great arsenal defence in both the wolves and villa game from chances that were better than what we've conceded.

 

[stevoc]

What’s gone before is gone. “He” hasn’t spent anything, I’ve never understood that view. It’s not football manager, one person doesn’t identify a gap, scout, negotiate, write the cheque for the purchase, and negotiate the wage. The previous two seasons with the previous leadership are irrelevant.

New leadership have put some foundations and benchmarks in place. They’ll want to see how everything settles down is my guess.

This shit again, no he's not the one 'spending' the money. But he's the one steering the ship and primarily identifying the targets. Eriksen, Malacia, Martinez, Antony, Onana, Mazrouri, DeLigt, Zirkzee all dutch, ex Ajax or both.

Ah so Ten Hag's first 2 seasons are written off and he's getting a clean slate as if he's a new manager now?

How nice.

I get the view that it’s top 4 or bust, I just don’t share it. Mainly because I don’t think it helps anyone. Improving every aspect of our play between now and Christmas will see us in a good league position to challenge for top 4.

Shouting Ten Hag out every time we play poorly or lose a game doesn’t achieve anything. He’s here right now so we may as well support him and the club we all love, and hope for the best. You may think that’s depressing, I just think it’s the reality of where we are.

Well it certainly doesn't help United or the clubs finances to finish outside the CL spots for the 2nd time in 2 years. Ratcliffe himself has said CL football is vital, so we can't just write it off for 5 years in the hope Ten Hag develops into Fergie mk2.

I am supporting the club and hoping for the best this season. And hope is all I have right now because I'm not seeing much else on or off the pitch that fuels my optimism about our chances this season.

 

[GreatDane]

I've mentioned this a few times, but a shockingly large portion of our fanbase talks about our club as if we were the likes of West Brom or Numancia and we should just be happy to be allowed to play in the same league as the big boys.

It's ridiculous really. Also now we apparently should be celebrating that we have gone from conceding 20+ shots a game to less.
Standards in the trash.

 

[BeretWearingEnt]

This shit again, no he's not the one 'spending' the money. But he's the one steering the ship and primarily identifying the targets. Eriksen, Malacia, Martinez, Antony, Onana, Mazrouri, DeLigt, Zirkzee all dutch, ex Ajax or both.

Ah so Ten Hag's first 2 seasons are written off and he's getting a clean slate as if he's a new manager now?

How nice.



Well it certainly doesn't help United or the clubs finances to finish outside the CL spots for the 2nd time in 2 years. Ratcliffe himself has said CL football is vital, so we can't just write it off for 5 years in the hope Ten Hag develops into Fergie mk2.

I am supporting the club and hoping for the best this season. And hope is all I have right now because I'm not seeing much else on or off the pitch that fuels my optimism about our chances this season.

It’s not written off, it just doesn’t impact the future in any real sense. It will undoubtedly affect the decision making of the people who determine whether Ten Hag keeps his job, but last season does not affect this season on the pitch.

So I’ll choose to keep turning up, backing the team, hoping for better. That’s how I’ve supported for 40 years or so, whether we’re awful, the best in the world, or mediocre as we are now.

 

[Samid]

Liverpool and Brighton both have new manager without signing any players and they play better than us. Meanwhile, ETH need 3 years and 600mil playing zombie football.

Looks like another season gone and Ineos first major mistake?

Chelsea who were a complete shitshow only needed two games under the new manager to show far more attacking prowess than ETH has in over two years.

We had a negative GD last season. There are zero excuses for that. Brainless move by INEOS who got sentimental after a FA Cup win. Say what you want about Woodward and the previous regime but at least they had some standards and binned off managers who flopped in the league.

 

[Rolaholic]

Watching Chelsea running riot this afternoon had me thinking, have we ever scored more than 4 under ETH?

I know we've conceded 5 or more a few times but can't remember us having a goal fest over these passed 3 seasons.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

He was incredibly fortunate to survive last season and as a result he needs to make a good start to this year. Next week's game feels massive for him now, win that and we go into the international break in a reasonable position and with some confidence. Lose and it's 2 weeks of daily headlines and stories of 'United in crisis'. I'm not sure he'll be able to bounce back from that.