Go for it. It’s the bullshit stats that people produce to try to support their arguments that is ridiculous.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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Ah, you seem to have left off Sir Alex Ferguson. Who I’d say had the greatest statistical influence over all.So we were a top side under Moyes, Van Gaal, Jose and Ole but we're shite under Ten Hag?
It's always good when an excuse with zero research behind it gets dispelled.
I have no idea if the claim is true but you can’t use averages like this as any kind of proof.
One of those teams might be all kids but with two or three old players it would mask that. You’d need to work out the deviation to see which squad was actually worse off in terms of age.
I reckon we’re a young team but we won’t be youngest in the league. Crucially, our attacking players bar Rashford are all very young and explains why goalscoring is a problem. Long term it should pay off I guess.
Premier League Record
Definition of midtable manager?
- Matches - 81
- Wins - 43
- Draws - 13
- Losses - 25
- Goals For - 120
- Goals Against - 106
- Manager of the month: 3
Definition of midtable manager?
He didn't need to be mentioned.
We've been largely shite under 5 permanent managers now post Fergie. Yet there's been a serious uptick in conceding late goals over the last two years compared to even under the last 4 managers never mind Fergie.
Now I agree you can't look too much into one isolated stat, but you can't also hand wave it away and completely disregard it. By saying it's only because we're shite now as if we haven't been a fairly average side for over a decade at this stage.
Too many variables for that stat to hold any validity. It looks worse, because it includes where we were dominant. Remove those, and the sample size is too low to build any conclusion. For that stat to hold weight, we’d have to compare the stat across similar league positions, etc. and as mentioned, the sample size would be to small to be conclusive.
Fact is, we don’t need embellished isolated stats to tell us we’re shite under ten hag and we concede late goals. I’m not arguing that. I have eyes. I’m arguing that the stats being used to drive home a point are worthless - and for what it’s worth, I built a career on statistics and probabilities. Which is why these whoppers on Twitter bending stats to suit their agenda and narrative, to then be lapped up as gospel winds me up.
Fair enough I don't disagree for the most part. But just to play Devil's advocate you can remove 1992-2013 and only include 2013 to 2022 and it still doesn't look great.
No doubt.
For what it’s worth, the bulk of the stats you see are completely useless. A goal or assist here or there, or a ‘big chance’ created etc. massively skews it in one direction - since the total sum is generally low. But stats generate clicks and promote engagement and discussion, so I can see why in todays social media driven frenzy that they are used; and why journos prey on the naivety of those that lap it up.
At least 4 points in the next two matches or he must be sacked!!!........otherwise we have no chance to get CL football next season.
He won't be sacked even if he gets no points (which is obviously a fairly likely outcome).
He won't be sacked until Christmas. Still something to look forward to in the New Year as we may play some half decent football once he's gone.
That goals for and against is a shocking stat alone when its laid out like that.
Wonder how much worse it would be with Europe and the cups added to it.
Not a chance the club waits that long. 3rd season in post and been given every player we can afford - he’s toast and the whole world knows it. 3 defeats coming up and he’s gone then. Should never have been given this season but it’s the first veg mistake INeOS have made.
Definitely, by every metric. Stating the obvious, last season definitely skewed everything downward, so the only way should be up, but you just never know with this manager and squad.
Don't forget we have Porto away in midweek. I can only see him winning one match out of our next three and that's being generous going by our struggles against half decent opposition. Spurs at home is our best chance at three points but they could still easily beat us. I can't see us winning at Porto and Villa
Those arguing the average age point.
Onana
Mazraoui
De Ligt
Martinez
Shaw
Dalot
Maguire
Evans
Lindelof
Casemiro
Ugarte
Mount
Ugarte
Bruno
Eriksen
Rashford
Are all extremely experienced pros.
Zirkzee and Antony I wouldn't really use age as an excuse. Both are grown men who have been around.
Yoro
Mainoo
Hojlund
Amad
Garnacho
5 players at the start of their career.
We are a moderately young squad but when you break it down we have a lot of players like De Ligt, Ugarte, Rashford, Mount ect who's career experience contradict their age.
The point of saying we have a young squad as an excuse would mean that a lot of our players are very likely to get better naturally with age. I really don't see that as being true with many. Maybe Kobbie and Yoro will become superstars, who knows.
Onana
Mazraoui
De Ligt
Martinez
Shaw
Dalot
Maguire
Evans
Lindelof
Casemiro
Ugarte
Mount
Ugarte
Bruno
Eriksen
Rashford
Are all extremely experienced pros.
Zirkzee and Antony I wouldn't really use age as an excuse. Both are grown men who have been around.
Yoro
Mainoo
Hojlund
Amad
Garnacho
5 players at the start of their career.
We are a moderately young squad but when you break it down we have a lot of players like De Ligt, Ugarte, Rashford, Mount ect who's career experience contradict their age.
The point of saying we have a young squad as an excuse would mean that a lot of our players are very likely to get better naturally with age. I really don't see that as being true with many. Maybe Kobbie and Yoro will become superstars, who knows.
The club doesn't care so i don't care anymore.
Any top club (Real Madrid or Bayern Munich) would have already sacked Ten Hag a few times last season and surely already this season too.
1 win in the last 9 european matches (Only two matches against a top side)....we are a laughing stock
I haven't forget this match.......i reckon we will only have two points (Defeat against Porto and a draw at Fenerbahce) after three matches.
I agree and feel sorry for those who didn't realise this season became a total write off when he wasn't sacked.
I think they those above him will want to see if they can help turn things around and it will drag on. I'd be shocked if he's gone before Christmas.
He'll absolutely be gone by Christmas barring a drastic change in fortunes.
We were shite under Moyes, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick too and yet we still conceded way, way fewer late winners under those four put together than we have under Ten Hag in just two seasons. Pull your head out of the sand man.
He'd be considered a midtable manager only because he is managing a potent club. Put him in a club that has a quality and financial disadvantage, like an actual midtable Premier League one, and he is getting relegated.
The excuses for this guy. The standards he’s sunk this club to are unforgivable.
Maresca has Chelsea playing some lovely stuff, second in the league with a positive goal difference and getting performances out of Sancho. All within several games.
57 league games since the Carabao Cup win over Newcastle and we have a GD of +1. Let that sink in.
Maresca has Chelsea playing some lovely stuff, second in the league with a positive goal difference and getting performances out of Sancho. All within several games.
57 league games since the Carabao Cup win over Newcastle and we have a GD of +1. Let that sink in.
When you say it that way, I absolutely concur with you. If you put him at a West Ham or a Brighton, they are totally getting relegated.
Definitely the luckiest manager to manage a big club.
Are we?
His record and football is always so much mkre unjustifiable whenever you simply flick on another match in the league and see that a good majority of the league are able to consistently play decent stuff and are hard to play against.
Quite the contrast to what we see being served up 3 seasons in...
Quite the contrast to what we see being served up 3 seasons in...
To be honest I've never been big into stats and personally think it's taken over football a bit too much. They can be used to paint whatever picture you want if you're creative enough. They're useful no doubt when used correctly but I prefer to trust what I'm actually seeing on the pitch for the most part.
I don't think he'll be sacked next month either but if this form continues I doubt they'll wait until Xmas either.
November is traditionally the mid season sacking month.
I had a very heated argument with my friend who is a staunch ETH supporter amd he was very delighted when ETH wasn't sacked.i made up my mind early on to only watch matches that Amad starts and not bother myself with the result as this season is a write off for me unless we sacked Ten Hag early and I'm very happy without that decision so far. I watch games like a neutral with no emotions attached and I don't have to argue with anybody about why keeping him is only undoing any good work INEOS does off the pitch.
The player I fear for the most is Mainoo. Good job making him a mainstay in the team but the boy needs actual coaching to develop imto the monster of a midfielder we hope he can be and nothing that is being displayed on the pitch gives me any indication that this coaching setup has what it takes. Mourinho ball stunted Rashford's development as it turned him from a well rounded young attacker into an inside foward who could only shine when the game was being played at breakneck pace. If we don't sign an actual training ground coach , we may well rue it in a few years time.
So the eye test completely agrees with the stats posted, but you’re still throwing a tantrum that the stats were referenced.
Right.
Uh that wasn’t the point of my post.
Tantrum? The stats and shite I see posted on these forums are embarrassing and indicative of the social media culture we now live in. You see random tweets from some kid in his basement being used a gospel with no foundation, and stats that are isolated and meaningless being used to drive home narratives.
Naive as fk.
G
Good post, kid.
Brighton havent won a match in the league since beating us
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Good tangent, boomer.
Absolutely. Ineos have essentially demanded the bar be raised with their 2028 projections. Holding on to Ten Hag beyond Christmas if results don't improve would be sending the wrong message and raise serious concerns about their ability to steer the club onto the path of success. The top 6 are already running away from us.
Because they've played decent sides since they beat us.
I see Everton have just managed to beat Palace, while Brighton haven’t managed to win a game since beating us.
I wonder what mental gymnastics the ETH defence league will come up with to defend that one.
XG, injuries, Shaw & Martinez, process, two trophies, heh, etc etc
It's crazy isn't it? All we've heard is "at least we aren't Chelsea". They get a decent manager and look what happens.
But no, not us. Let's stick with a manager who will keep us firmly mid to low table, playing some awful football.
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