Southampton were the better team until the pen miss
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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No they weren't. They had a 15 minute period of confident play and capitalised on our inability to play out from the back. But it's wasn't 30 mins and had zirkzee put away his 2 yard tap in, we'd have been unlikely to see the penalty incident at all.
Even if we argue we were second best to Southampton away from home, what's the point being made? That top teams don't ever do this? OK, I guess the first 45 in Ipswich vs Liverpool just didn't happen.
Except this was not a one off. Conceding such injury time goals has become a bit of a pattern under Ten Hag.
From the BBC:
“In Manchester United's 1,152 PL games before Erik ten Hag took charge, they conceded an injury-time winner just twice.
In their 78 Premier League games under the Dutchman, they have conceded six.”
There are lots of things that seem to have become reoccurring issues under Ten Hag’s management. Some posters try and attribute them purely to individual player errors, but it seems reasonable to suggest there might be some underlying coaching and tactical issues there too.
They would of been well worth their lead, this is a team that will get relegated by the way.
We scored against run of play
Top teams have poor periods but win the majority of their games, we on the other hand only have good periods and are looking easy to play against.
Doesn't even appear close.to being sacked which is mental considering how long he should have been gone
Never heard that before. Is there any corroboration?
I don't know how close he is to the sack but if he doesn't drop Bruno, he is gone soon.
That’s one way to crack an egg
Liverpool lost an entire 90 minute match to Forest. At home. End of discussion.
Seriously though, this line of argument is nonsense. You don't watch other teams so closely, hence you don't see it. This sort of thing over 20-30 minutes happens all the time. We're 5th in the Prem in xG differential; the team hasn't been horrible. The finishing hasn't been there so far and we need to start winning games, but you're off base if you think we're the only team to ever struggle against lower level sides.
Dalot is the only player who has unquestionably improved under ETH.
Credit to ETH for playing the kids (probably too much to be honest), but so far I haven't really seen any signs of improvement that I wouldn't expect purely from them getting a bit older and more experienced. Very much like what happened when Ole trusted our younger players and they almost all went on to have their best ever seasons, but never developed any further in his later seasons. Maybe we'll see that over the course of this season as it's still a relatively small sample size, but to be honest I'm not a fan of the way that ETH seems to be asking them to play.
Some players improved from the level they were in right before ETH took over, but still not to the level they were at their best. The likes of Maguire, Shaw and Rashford (he scored more goals under ETH but overall he was better in 19/20) fit that category.
Actually, Fred probably had his best form in ETH's first season. Although that was most likely just due to being used in the correct position rather than deep like how Mourinho and Ole used him. Many would say McTominay as well, but I consider him like Rashford in that he scored more goals but otherwise the rest of his game wasn't as good as he'd previously showed.
It was more like 25 minutes. The first 3-5 minutes were fairly even, but then Southampton were clearly on top from that point until the penalty miss.
Your general point that things like that can happen to all teams is fair, but it certainly happens to us far too often to the point that it's been the norm since the start of last season. Signs of improvement so far this season, but we've had quite an easy run of fixtures so we'll see what happens as we face more difficult opposition.
“In Manchester United's 1,152 PL games before Erik ten Hag took charge, they conceded an injury-time winner just twice.
In their 78 Premier League games under the Dutchman, they have conceded six.”
This is without including the historic thrashings. It's a losers mentality on and off the pitch. He's done a below average job all things considering and we need way above average in the dugout for us just like we need on the pitch.
I'd have a good back up ready if I was Ineos and that definitely does not include the likes of Ole or Mourinho.
It's gotten to the point where even my mum asks what the hell is wrong with the team you support and why are they so crap?
It's really fecking embarrassing how many players and managers have criticised our football/tactics in the post-Fergie era.
It was the other extreme under Rangnick. Pep and Klopp were hyping him up like crazy.
Pep has a history of wumming us.
People at work have stopped teasing me about our results a long time ago, now they just give me sympathetic looks.It's gotten to the point where even my mum asks what the hell is wrong with the team you support and why are they so crap?
Needs to tweak his system quickly because it's currently not maximizing any player's strengths (apart from the fullbacks who seem to be playing well). A player like Rashford (with only four shots taken in the PL this season) should be much closer to the penalty box instead of constantly holding the width for example. His subs have been horrific so far as well, if i see Bruno playing as a RW one more time I'm going to explode. Slowest midfielder, below average dribbler and you stick him on the RW against a low block, really. I bet Twente's manager was laughing when he saw that change.
To be fair, the defence has been strengthened tremendously during the window. Ugarte, Mainoo and Garnacho are wonderful midfielders with great skills.
Strikers Zirkzee and Hojlund have still not fully proven their fees but things may turn out well given their abilities.
Strikers Zirkzee and Hojlund have still not fully proven their fees but things may turn out well given their abilities.
Dumb stat.
We’re shite now compared to before, so obviously we are more likely to concede late winners. Nothing to do with losers mentality. We’re just rubbish.
There’s loads of sticks to beat ETH with, without having to reach for that crap to drive your narrative. Leave that shit to the clowns on Twitter.
Which he will probably win then and we are back in to the Ten Hag cycle again.
The point is we're more shite than we've ever been under this guy. He makes terrible subs and loses control of games late on. It's a feature of his management spanning many seasons and teams.
You aren’t wrong. But using shit stats to validate a point isn’t necessary. The way the current modern fan tries to use some arbitrary non-contextual and isolated stat that they ripped off of Twitter (when there is a plethora of variables that influence), to validate a point is ridiculous. It’s like, eyes are not necessary - everything has to be backed up by x-this and x-that. It’s tiring. Any stat can be bent to drive a point home; as shown in the rubbish one you posted.
I’ve never come across any mention of him being a target before ETH joined. From what I’ve read, he was initially scouted during Solskjaer’s tenure (among many other players), with the scouting team valuing him at only £20M, it was never mentioned anywhere that we were after him. There have been a lot of reports about ETH pushing hard for the transfer, which ended up with us overpaying. It seems like his fans are just trying to find excuses to defend him.
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Thinking that players need to be "drilled" to know not to leave a player like Palmer completely free in a situation like that is a new kind of stupid, I have to say.
It is very much a case of a lack of communication and organisation. Which very much lands at the feet of both the players and the coaching staff.
Everything that goes wrong isn't always one or the other it can be both, but ultimately the manager holds the most responsibility, it's his responsibility to ensure situations like that don't happen.
Come'on man, we've been shite for 11 years now. None of the stats being posted are impressive nor prove anything. We're a 4th to 6th place PL team and have been since SAF retired.
It's been a very long, miserable 11 years barring some Cup wins.
Whilst I agree with your general point, we didn't "literally scrape to 4th place" we finished 3rd.
I don’t think the guy has a plan at all. He just keeps rewarding people based on previous game performances ignoring how some players are just not built for higher level. Eriksen was not even in the plans for this season and now he is starting 4-5 games in a row. Maguire at the start. How is someone supposed to create an identity or a style of play if you just keep playing different profile of players together through the course of the season?
There are also concerns about running players into the ground, having untouchables regardless of how bad they are playing. Its mind boggling.
There are also concerns about running players into the ground, having untouchables regardless of how bad they are playing. Its mind boggling.
Forest would probably beat us the way they've started. We've not faced a team playing as well as them apart from maybe Liverpool. You think it's good that we get battered by Liverpool, who are easily dealt with by Forest? Even Liverpool was a game that was a good time to be playing them as they've looked shaky at times. Which is to be expected when playing under a new coach with no new signings. We're in year three having spent half a billion.
We're 5th in xG after having faced a favourable start, apart from one game. This is my whole point.
ETH this season with the new structure have opted for young players who we can develop into stars and then maybe make profits on in the future. Where as previously we’ve signed superstars and made massive losses on them. Young teams are never ready to challenge for big trophies. They have to grow together which will see us with a lot of pain and defeats.
We've never been as bad closing out games. ETH is uniquely bad at that. It's a mentality thing and it comes down to the manager and his captain.
Right it's just because we have young players
For context Chelsea, Arsenal, Aston Villa, Brighton all have had younger average formations this season than us. On to the next excuse.
My mistake
And what exactly have they all won?Right it's just because we have young players
For context Chelsea, Arsenal, Aston Villa, Brighton all have had younger average formations this season than us. On to the next excuse.
It’s not an excuse. It just takes longer time to develop.Is us being rubbish not a stick to beat the manager with then?
So we were a top side under Moyes, Van Gaal, Jose and Ole but we're shite under Ten Hag?
Yeah. I'd agree with this.
I'd go further to say that Ten Hag will ultimately get sacked within the next few months but the new manager will benefit from some of the work that has gone on since the cup final.
That is a bit too easy dont you think? I dont think it is a strange claim to say we have a young team. I think Bruno is our only 30 year old starter. Casemiro, Evans and Maguire bring up the average age a bit but they dont seem to be first choices anymore
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