Wel
He wouldn’t be my pick but he’s had a lot more success getting out of group stages than Ten Hag’s had!
He wouldn’t be my pick but he’s had a lot more success getting out of group stages than Ten Hag’s had!
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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It probably wasn't the best strategy to go into the season with a player who's been in the worst form of his career, 4 young players who haven't hit their peak with none of them consistent goalscorers and fecking Antony making up the options for your front 3 in attack.
You're just making shit up in your mind to suit your agenda. Antony was a United target before we signed Ten Hag, but after we signed Ten Hag then De Jong become the priority and all effort was directed towards signing him. The previous management team was literally incapable of performing more than a single task at a time, they couldn't even sell a player because they were so focused on signing De Jong, so even if Antony was priority target at the beginning of July, which there is no evidence to suggest he was, the club made the decision to focus on De Jong and we have to assume Ten Hag fully agreed.
Whatever our scouting team valued him at, it was irrelevant, Ajax valued him around 55 mil in the beginning of the transfer window, and we had no interest at that time, or our main interest was elsewhere. It was only when the club caved to outside pressure and loaned Greenwood did they then have to panic and find a replacement for him. It was at that point we went in for Antony, based on the club decision with Ten Hag approval, but Murtough and Arnold did the negotiating, that's how things work. Thinking Ten Hag is involved with discussions on player price in negotiations is akin to him putting himself in at CB when we have a spate of injuries. It's literally not his job, even if he wants it. But the club choosing to go into this transfer at the end of the window, once Ajax sold their whole team, is not on Ten Hag, it was a club decision.
If Antony was that important to Ten Hag, like 90 mil important, then we would have prioritized him over 60 mil De Jong who Barca was more than happy to sell at any point in the summer. The fact we signed Numerous players before we got to signing Antony, and it was clearly a last minute panic buy, prove this. At the time people attributed the panic purchase to a reaction to losing to Brighton and Brentford, but very likely it was a panic in reaction to having to replace a player whom they planned to use all summer long. If we didn't loan out Greenwood then where would Antony have played that season?
Who knows if Ten Hag is the right guy, unfortunately it's seeming less and less likely by the day, but the price of Antony is not a stick you can beat him with, nor do you need it, just talk about our football and quite chatting shit to try and build up your case against Ten Hag.
I doubt many will be on the back foot against Southampton for 30 minutes of the game, certainly not teams with top 4 aspirations. However, like I said, these teams are/have improved already since the early games and may well be a problem for other teams now too. My point was that it was a good time to play them, but we still haven't been as great as many are making out. Posters are talking as though we are raining down on their goal, when that hasn't been the case. I would actually like to ask these posters how much they have seen of other teams, because if they think what we are producing is finally some great football that will take us anywhere, they're probably going to be in for a surprise. I still see smaller teams than us doing better in certain aspects of the game. Forest, for example, look far more dangerous than us, and also beat Liverpool whilst keeping a clean sheet. What we are producing now, in my opinion, is still nowhere near the levels that even smaller teams were producing last season.
Keeping possession at the back whilst creating 2 or 3 chances a game, isn't something to hang your hat on. Especially when we still give away good chances at the other end. And this is in games that have been favourable to us. In two or three months we might well find ourselves looking in crisis again. I think we should be fine until December with the players we have and lack of injuries, which would put is right in the mix. But in reality, I know it will probably work out nothing like that.
2.1 xga against Liverpool
2.1 xga against Brighton
1.6 xga against palace
1.3 xga against Southampton
0.6 xga against Fulham
Very average I would say.
TBH improving on last season's horror should not be seen as some sort of achievement, which is the problem. Crowing about improving from last season shows a serious lack of standards for one of the biggest clubs in the world with one of the biggest budgets.
ETH must deliver much better than What we have seen so far this season to even begin repaying some of the faith shown in him after last season.
We are a long way from that yet, with difficult fixtures ahead I'm not particuly optimistic from what iv have seen so far this season that things are going to get much better
But you never know, not like iv never been wrong before I'm my life.
Let's hold it here. We were not on the back foot against Southampton for 30 mins. I'm absolutely fine critiquing us but let's park hyperbole. There was a 15min spell where we were under the cosh. Just like like there was for Liverpool when they played Ipswich.
I understand what you're saying but you still didn't answer my question.
I’m not sure he’s ever even participated in one at the domestic level. Kind of tells you why I hope the links are simply clickbait.
I can’t be bothered to go look but assume ETh’s knock out group record is decent given he managed Ajax. If you mean United specific then he’s 0/1 yes compared to 0/0.
He has a transfer veto and (like all managers) a limited transfer budget. If he felt the fee was too high he would have vetoed the transfer. The only sensible conclusion anyone could reach is that he desperately wanted the player and that he was a key addition. Whether he wanted another player more is irrelevant.
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He quite obviously desperately wanted him and was aware and happy with the price, anyone questioning that only does that because they have gone too deeply in their ETH love in to back down now.
The club should not have agreed to that signing obviously, any well run club wouldn’t, but acting as if they went behind his back to sign his former player for £85m and did not even consult him is lunacy.
So true. There's absolutely no way in hell Erik wasn't aware that we were going to spend that much on him. Plus he had his veto which obviously wasn't used to block it and say " No, he's good. But not anywhere near £80 million good". So obviously he knew all about it.
Anyone saying he didn't is talking out their ass.
A veto is to say no to a proposed player by the club, he can't announce, Veto - Antony, and then the club is bound to sign Antony.
But at that point why would he veto? He lost a player he factored into his plans (Greenwood) and lost him because of poor planning by the club. So I would imagine at that point he was just happy to have anyone come in to fill that void and he did have a working relationship with Antony, so it all made sense. But again, the cost has literally zero to do with him. And that transfer happened at the very end of the window, a window where until we lost to Brighton and Brentford seemed more or less closed for United. I am sure even if he had a say in the price he would have assumed that was the last signing and saving 15 mil didn't mean he would get a fullback. But all hypothetical, because this guy isn't literally in the room haggling over prices and anyone that thinks he is part of that is a delusional fool.
There are other managers in the PL besides those two who have got their teams scoring more goals on fewer resources.
I honestly just think some fans have become so accustomed to mediocre play that they are now overly impressed with the sort of attacking play that is fairly commonplace amongst other PL teams. Great, we’re creating a few more chances, but we still have trouble scoring goals and winning games. Fair enough if the former convinces you the latter is definitely going to happen, but I’ll believe it when I see it on a consistent basis. We have much tougher opposition coming up and we still routinely have games like the Twente one where our attacking patterns of play, if you can call them that, can’t even find a way through fairly limited teams in a game that’s pretty open. It’s not good enough, and Ten Hag has to take some responsibility for that. It can’t always be blamed 100% on the players.
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I’ve read in here about how there have been improvements from last season but from watching our games I just cannot see it. The statistics used may be skewed from the Southampton and Barnsley results, so whilst a very small sample size I think the only way to make a comparison would be the 4 corresponding matches we’ve had against - Fulham, Brighton, Liverpool and Palace.
Over these 4 games (this season) we’ve scored 3 less, conceded 3 less, have the same goal difference of -3 and accumulated the same points (4)
Whilst I believe the squad has improved, along with the injury crisis, our results so far have not and I don’t see anything that makes me believe they will. If anyone can point out why they think they will I’m all ears but for me the only constant during this has been the manager and he hasn’t shown any improvement, so it’s time to move on.
Regarding xG, would someone be kind enough to explain how this stat would be affected by a player in 1v1, or penalty situation where they are expected to score - the keeper saves but the ball comes back to the player and they are expected to score again? Would this result in there being 2 xG? As surely that is impossible as both cannot be scored or does the stat account for such situations? Hope that makes sense, cheers!
Over these 4 games (this season) we’ve scored 3 less, conceded 3 less, have the same goal difference of -3 and accumulated the same points (4)
Whilst I believe the squad has improved, along with the injury crisis, our results so far have not and I don’t see anything that makes me believe they will. If anyone can point out why they think they will I’m all ears but for me the only constant during this has been the manager and he hasn’t shown any improvement, so it’s time to move on.
Regarding xG, would someone be kind enough to explain how this stat would be affected by a player in 1v1, or penalty situation where they are expected to score - the keeper saves but the ball comes back to the player and they are expected to score again? Would this result in there being 2 xG? As surely that is impossible as both cannot be scored or does the stat account for such situations? Hope that makes sense, cheers!
That they went behind his back to sign him at £85m implies that they would not have even asked Antony’s former manager to evaluate him. As incompetent as our former governors may have been, it doesn’t even sound plausible for them.
Then you might obviously question whether ten Hag would have been able to tell whether he’s worth £85m or not, but that in turn implies that he would have zero idea of how much players are worth in transfer market and even your average half clued up fan has pretty good understanding of that. A manager as meticulous as him who loves to micro-manage every aspect of his role would not be completely oblivious to players valuation.
The fact Kudus was available for £40m and we went for Antony at double that is the true crime here.
When's the presser?
Should be in muscle memory by training.
So the players aren't well drilled on basic tactical maneuvers then. Not a very strong defense of the manager.
Was a crime even at the time of the transfer too, it's not even like that's a hindsight take.
Thinking that players need to be "drilled" to know not to leave a player like Palmer completely free in a situation like that is a new kind of stupid, I have to say.
Indeed. He was a crap signing and ETH is acknowledging that now by not picking him.
Very nice, doubling down. This is peak "everything good that happens is due to ETH, everything bad that happens is individual mistakes from players".
Thinking that players need to be "drilled" to know not to leave a player like Palmer completely free in a situation like that is a new kind of stupid, I have to say.
I really need to stop clicking the "show ignored content" button.
hot take this-haven’t read it ever before
I know what a veto is and that's exactly the point - he has final say on whether they sign a player or not. He obviously wanted him badly, and was either so keen on him he didn't care about the fee, or at best was indifferent to it.
And he'd veto because clearly, spending that sum of money on a single player impacted the budget when we were clearly light elsewhere. And that meant having to take on Weghorst mid-season instead of being able to spend in January. That signing is impacting the clubs ability to spend now, because of how the sustainability rules work.
I don't understand fans speculating, making assumptions and twisting common sense, straightforward points to defend a manager who has objectively failed in his job. Bizarre.
There's plenty to criticise ETH for, and enough to get him the sack - but one unavailable point is how poor he is at identifying talent.
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I voted "sack". But anyone thinking that goal has anything to do with Ten Hag's coaching is an idiot, plain and simple.
So do I.
Thinking that players need to be "drilled" to know not to leave a player like Palmer completely free in a situation like that is a new kind of stupid, I have to say.
It's a typical situation that rely almost exclusively on coaching and instructions. Coverage and marking on set pieces isn't improvised and it's generally the main topic of the last training session.
Because Erik only tells them to do good things. When they do bad things Erik obviously didn't tell them to do that.
Sadly, that's a fact.
That's how so many were over the moon about the hour against Palace and forgetting that the Liverpool result could've easily been another 7-0 if they cared a bit more about boosting the scoreline instead of playing rondos next to our box.
Sure dude. Because players never feck up.
That's not the point, players can absolutely mess up. But you suggested that players don't need to be drilled for these situations when it's totally wrong, it's one of the few situations where every single team is drilled and gameplan on a weekly basis.
I dont think that is true. He was important in the Garnacho and Mainoo breakthrough. Dalot is a much better player now and he did get Harry Maguire to look like a professional footballer again at times. Casemiro looks bad now but that could also be age. Rashford had his best (and maybe also his worst) season while ETH was the manager. I do think Bruno does have his worst form since joining the club so far during this season.
Signing Antony for all the money did set the progress back or atleast put it on hold. All that wasted money, we could have gotten one excellent or maybe even two good players for that instead.
I'm leaning quite comfortably towards wanting him gone myself. You don't have to post irrational, stupid shite and blame him for absolutely every single little thing to do that.
But I guess it's more comfortable. That way you can (once again) convince yourself everything will sort itself out once the manager is gone.
But I guess it's more comfortable. That way you can (once again) convince yourself everything will sort itself out once the manager is gone.
I agree and you should follow that advice. Set pieces undeniably rely on coaching and following strict instructions, now there is always the possibility that someone miss his assignment but it's extremely silly to suggest that players don't need to be drilled when it comes to set pieces, on both sides of the ball.
What's crazy is he's not the first opposition player or manager to say similar things over the years, particularly under Solskjaer and Ten Hag
Good players will always shine regardless of who the manager is, Messi has never had a bad season under a poor manager. That’s an extreme example I know, but a coaches real worth is what he gets out of the players that are limited. As it stands Ten Hag has regressed even some of our top players due to over reliance.
Is this before Erik is savagely beaten with a frying pan?
Come on, you know better than this. I've never suggested that players don't need to be drilled on set pieces, just that blaming the manager for one individual brainfart set piece is incredibly moronic.
We were 3-2 up having played 90+9 minutes. Then Chelsea equalized from a clumsily conceded penalty and scored a deflection winner within two minutes. Blaming the manager for that is just stupid.
It's not supposed to be hyperbole, but I can't be bothered to go into detail over nuance of each game. Basically they held their own for the first 30 minutes, should have been ahead. Even the pundits were saying they were the better team for half an hour and nobody was denying it at the time. They missed a pen, we scored, and their heads went. They couldn't string passes together and were all over the place defensively. Basically getting everything wrong all of a sudden, that they had been doing well. I believe this has happened in a few of their games so far.
I've not seen enough of other teams with similar prospects to know how they're faring against teams at the bottom of the league. I attempted to answer by saying that I'd be surprised if many were second best for 30 minutes against Southampton. But also wouldn't be surprised if it happened vs palace, as I expect them to find form. I can't see how anybody struggles against a Palace team playing like they did against us though, they had no ambition and were miles off it. They only did OK because they kept their defensive shape well, but on the ball the likes of Wharton and Eze didn't play to their usual level. To have a whole half without creating much against a team with zero ambition in the game is poor.
I see what you're saying, but even arguing we were second best to Southampton for 30 mins is over exaggerating the match.
And I gave you an example of Liverpool who really struggled for the first 45 mins to Ipswich away from home. Chelsea were completely outplayed by Bournemouth too. I don't think arsenal were great vs Tottenham, probably same against Wolves as we were vs Fulham, spurs sucked against Newcastle. And Newcastle have sucked every game this season apart from vs Spurs.
There's not a single team outside of City that hasn't surrendered periods of control to the opposition for 10-20 mins in games.
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Which is 99% of the game, get results then worry about style of play
No one cares about how you play if you are finishing 8th and getting tonked by anyone with a ok starting 11
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