FrankDrebin
Don't call me Shirley
Scrambling around looking for a new manager again.
Expected a little more competence from this 'super team'.
Expected a little more competence from this 'super team'.
More rumours circulating
How do you know we’re scrambling? Your tone suggests very little belief in the new structure, so I doubt your sincerity.Scrambling around looking for a new manager again.
Expected a little more competence from this 'super team'.
We looked around in the summer and we still pursued with this guy.How do you know we’re scrambling? Your tone suggests very little belief in the new structure, so I doubt your sincerity.
How do you know we’re scrambling? Your tone suggests very little belief in the new structure, so I doubt your sincerity.
It’s just weird. I’d rather be hopeful and positive about them, because the on the pitch stuff isn’t giving me much to believe in.Some seem desperate to discredit INEOS already. I've noticed it a-lot on here recently.
I just can't understand the thinking with giving him a new contract. Why not hold off and see how he improves, or not? But now it will cost more when he is inevitably sacked.
We didn’t give him a new contract, just exercised the one year extension option on his current one.
But it's in an article on the internet and everything. Maybe you're looking but not seeing.I believe what I see with my eyes than some nonsense statistic open to interpretation.
I kind of assumed he would be fired but I don’t think it’s that crazy that Ineos kept him on as they weren’t even all in their jobs yet. It’s not like they arrive at the club and then suddenly everything is fixed either.Sure, but if that's your argument then he should have gone in Summer, as he would have done had he actually delivered a 14th place finish.
The fact he's here is because him fluking an eight place finish and the Cup was respectable* despite the performances given the injury situation, but results is the metric that saved him and its only fair if, therefore, results are the metric he continues to be judged by. And, well, the results have continued to be crap.
*I do not actually think last season was ok, even with mitigation, and I'm amazed he survived it. The fact that he only achieved a season that crap and not significantly crapper with huge, huge gobs of luck is hardly worth thinking about.
What's there to see? I can now predict how each game will go. Most likely we'll have decent starts, concede a goal and then revert to passing the ball with no purpose wasting a couple of chances. I don't understand why I keep my hopes up that something will be different when it's literally the same thing week in week out.Lets see how he does in the next few games, can the team click. We see the underlying stats improve of less shots against, much more touches inside the oppositions box, more possession but so far we're no better off points/position wise.
I don't see he'll be good enough or have enough time, we've already spent huge amounts and now into a third season looking like a midtable team way off top 4, each game looking difficult and a mountain to climb through lack of goals. If we carry on in this manner I'm sure he's gone soon.
What's there to see? I can now predict how each game will go. Most likely we'll have decent starts, concede a goal and then revert to passing the ball with no purpose wasting a couple of chances. I don't understand why I keep my hopes up that something will be different when it's literally the same thing week in week out.
«Keep» went from 10 % to 22 % after beating a promoted team and some farts from the 3rd tier. This fanbase never ceases to amaze me.
More rumours circulating
You can easily make the same argument for most teams most matches, Twente could have easily scored 3 and been through clear on goal another time had they executed it better, in fact the only team that didn't miss chances to score against us was Barnsley, everyone else has been equally guilty of poor finishing as we have been, I cannot remember a game where we were that much better than the opponent that a draw or loss has been an unfair result at full timeMaybe not the Europa game but in the league we’d have 12 points if our forwards weren’t so inconsistent in finishing.
United have one of the highest XG (a stat I despise in how is used) in the league. That means chance creation is not a problem and once our forwards build some momentum we should start putting teams away.
At the end of the day, out of Uniteds forward line , Bruno is and has been our most productive and clinical forwards. Garnacho , Amad and even Hoijland are young relatively unproven at this level and can’t be expected to consistently prop up a team wanting to challange for top 4.
Rashford having an off season compounded that and while he’s shown glimpses of finding form, the team hasn’t been able to afford him or Bruno being off it.
Zirks has only joined so he’s only settling in now but he works well with the forward line. But that’s more relying on the other attackers getting goals , kind of like weghorst making space for Rashford to get lots of goals.
Many said “if we just conceded less chances , created more chances and had a recognisable style of play I’d be happy”. Well I’d say we can say all three have been accomplished , we just need the team to start taking their chances.
I have one more to add. Planned substitutions instead of reacting to the match situation. 60 mins? take off zirkzee or a winger and replace with similar ones. 70mins? replace a central defender. 90mins? rotate your forward again. No change in plans, no change in shape or tactics. Just seems pre determined.I've been staunchly pro ETH but I heard a podcast recently where they questioned a fan who wanted ETH in and they said "How will he turn it around? What physical change will he make?" And I was stumped, last year we had the injuries so I could say "When they're back..." but now we are only really missing a LB and Dalot is a pretty capable replacement there, it's not like we are playing Casemiro at LB.
There does seem to be a style of play but it's not one that's executed to a high level, if he said it will take a few years but I want to get us playing like my Ajax side and I need patience but he claimed "We can't play like that", so was clearly adapting his tactic to his squad yet we constantly don't look consistent or like we have a clue in the final third.
His odd loyalty to certain players, lack of information on injuries in pressers, odd & late substitutions and refusal to really pack out the midfield - I just don't know what even could change at this point for him to turn it around but obviously those above him must still believe or see a reason for this underperformance, I would love to know what that was.
But that would quite literally destroy any argument for keeping Ten Hag in a job. What are people going to cling to then?How about we just throw xG in the bin.
We have better GD so far this season.But that would quite literally destroy any argument for keeping Ten Hag in a job. What are people going to cling to then?
Our xG game by game:
United 2.43 v 0.44 Fulham - we won that game anyway
Brighton 2.09 v 1.43 United - they actually had a higher xG and won. Best case that game should have been a draw, but looking from purely statistical POV we'd draw this game 2-2 only 4 times out of 10.
United 1.52 v 1.50 Liverpool - this is extremely misleading because 1.4 of our xG game when the game was 0-3 and done. We lose that game 10 times out of 10.
Southampton 1.12 v 2.67 United - we won that game anyway. If anything it was more comfortable than that.
Palace 1.01 v 1.70 United - again, we drew that game, statistically we win it 7 times out of 10 due but it's not that obvious
You may argue we should maybe have extra 2 points here on the balance of how this season has progressed so far, Palace being the only game where our lack of finishing actually cost us points.
Vs Brighton, Garnachos disallowed goal wipes out the XG from that chance is that correct? If so it goes to show how shit XG is in analysing games.Our xG game by game:
United 2.43 v 0.44 Fulham - we won that game anyway
Brighton 2.09 v 1.43 United - they actually had a higher xG and won. Best case that game should have been a draw, but looking from purely statistical POV we'd draw this game 2-2 only 4 times out of 10.
United 1.52 v 1.50 Liverpool - this is extremely misleading because 1.4 of our xG game when the game was 0-3 and done. We lose that game 10 times out of 10.
Southampton 1.12 v 2.67 United - we won that game anyway. If anything it was more comfortable than that.
Palace 1.01 v 1.70 United - again, we drew that game, statistically we win it 7 times out of 10 due but it's not that obvious
You may argue we should maybe have extra 2 points here on the balance of how this season has progressed so far, Palace being the only game where our lack of finishing actually cost us points.
It’s fundamentally flawed, there are loads of well known examples of opportunities it doesn’t include. It’s similar to VAR, technology companies trying to profit from imposing technology where it doesn’t work. Drawing a flat line across a curved pitch surface and pretending they are making inch-perfect decisions, while at the other end of the freeze frame they’ve no idea whether the passer’s foot is in contact with the ball or possibly six inches away. It’s never even discussed.I don’t like it, it’s used wrong all the time , it really is the emperors new clothes of shallow football analysis.
Honestly, we start the games well, minor the Liverpool game.
But once that half time comes around, we come out as a completely different team and not a good one at that.
Honestly, we start the games well, minor the Liverpool game.
But once that half time comes around, we come out as a completely different team and not a good one at that.
This isn't a blind defence of his, but the squad is better than average and a good manager should be getting top 4 and a good cup run or two, with some comfort. So the benchmark is high for Ten Hag and he has to perform.There is noise building, no doubt about it. I never thought he would last past the start of November and I'm still surprised he was retained after last season. In honesty there could have been no complaints had he been sacked immediately after the 7-0, and that was a long time ago. That was a generational defeat.
He's put together a massively average squad at huge expense, that simply don't score goals, he has no obvious playing style after three years and while I don't think he's lost the dressing room I think he has fallen out with the likes of Garnacho. He also has a bad habit of deluding himself in public after poor performances, which is most weeks.
I'll be interested to see if Ineos act more decisively than the previous lot who would write off entire seasons before sacking dead ducks
Im unsure how many games you've seen from other teams but can you name many club that hasn't been outplayed for periods in the game?You could also say that in most of those games our opposition have also played better themselves in certain periods. Palace second half, Southampton first 30 minutes were much better, Brighton were better for periods of the game, Fulham wasn't a good performance either in my opinion. In all honesty, apart from Liverpool I think every team we've faced have been worse than they were last season. Fulham have found a bit of form now, for example, and we probably would struggle even more if we faced them now. I think they're even above us in the table. It was a good time to face all of these teams as they had a shaky start this season and we had struggled against them all last season, but even then we haven't capitalised at all. I can only see our performances and results going downhill as we face better teams and teams that have built up a bit of form.
Realistically the perceived improvement is that we are not conceding 20+ shots a game, when you start low improvements are easy to come byI totally understand those who continue backing him inspite of everything, having been there myself with Ole, but I understood his time was up when he was finally sacked. I think the only defence left for EtH is the perceived improvement over the first few games of the season and the hope that it will translate into a good season at the end.
However, the improvement this season, absolutely ineluctable as it was (considering the very low bar of last season and additional players bought to improve the squad), is very negligible so far. This club expects so much more that he surely can't keep this much longer unless there is some miraculous overnight change, which everyone knows won't happen, I'm sure even his most ardent supporters must know this (maybe some would like him to maintain some credibility for other top jobs after he inevitably leaves which will be more difficult if he is sacked by October/November following a disastrous season).
And for those who think, probably rightly, that no available manager can be expected to put in drastically improved performances and results immediately, let me put it this way: if this was his first season (probably even second season) he could be awarded more patience as we wait to see how he picks up the team from this shaky start. Unfortunately same can't be said of a manager in his third season at a club of our status, unless he has a lot of credit in the bank over the previous seaons, of which EtH has absolutely none! Patience has unfortunately worn very thin with him meanwhile the clock will be reset for the new manager.
This. The squad is not very strong, our strikers and wingers are midtable level. Hard to see ETH and this team finish top 4, or even top 6.There is noise building, no doubt about it. I never thought he would last past the start of November and I'm still surprised he was retained after last season. In honesty there could have been no complaints had he been sacked immediately after the 7-0, and that was a long time ago. That was a generational defeat.
He's put together a massively average squad at huge expense, that simply don't score goals, he has no obvious playing style after three years and while I don't think he's lost the dressing room I think he has fallen out with the likes of Garnacho. He also has a bad habit of deluding himself in public after poor performances, which is most weeks.
I'll be interested to see if Ineos act more decisively than the previous lot who would write off entire seasons before sacking dead ducks
It doesn't help that he advocated to spend 80 million for anthony. That alone is sackableThis. The squad is not very strong, our strikers and wingers are midtable level. Hard to see ETH and this team finish top 4, or even top 6.
Tbf he didn't set the stupidly high price.It doesn't help that he advocated to spend 80 million for anthony. That alone is sackable
It'll be a mix as usual. We beat Spurs, draw to Porto and lose to Villa. The sort of run that makes you wonder whether to sack him or back him. Rinse and repeat.Spurs at home then Porto and villa away. Will he pull his Houdini act again or will this finally be it for ten hag?
No deflection - thought it was quite an obvious train of thought. Last season was terrible in the CL but your point is if we were so bad it’s a trend, I think we will buck the trend (get out the group). So bet?