Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[saik]

‘it’s only 5 games’ is the new benchmark it seems. Let’s forget this is the 3rd season of tumescent football and the huge outlay on his players, it’s still anyone but ETH’s fault.
If anyone thinks he’s still capable of getting us back in the top 4, let alone title challenge, then you don’t watch United.

I watch every game, and I genuinely believe he can get us top 4. He already achieved it in his first season, and now he has a squad with depth in every position, so there's no reason he can't do it again. I don’t think anyone seriously expected us to be title challengers this year. Our hope is that several of our young players will step up, which would allow us to be considered real contenders in the future.
Players like Amad, Garnacho, Højlund, Mainoo, and Zirkzee all have world-class potential, and we’re banking on them reaching that level.

Of course, he needs to show consistency and string some results together, but he's more than capable of securing top 4. I rate Chelsea, Tottenham, Newcastle, and Aston Villa at the same level as us. I don’t think any of them are significantly better than we are at this point.

 

[saik]

When people make these “if” scenarios they seem to think they could only go United’s way or something.

And the run of “form” in question - LLWWD - with one of those W’s being against Barnsley in the league cup. “Singing his praises”. God

While I don't necessarily agree with people dealing with hypotheticals there's some people who use the same "if" scenarios to say how much worse it could have been. If Southampton didn't miss their penalty or if Onana didn't make his double save and so on.

 

[oreon]

Erik is in tough place having failed to win against Crystal Palace. We are clearly improving, but we are losing too many points and time is running out for us to climb up the EPL table

Pragmatically, Erik needs to win against both Spurs and Villa if we want to make a real claim for top 4. Anything short of that puts us on trajectory for 5th or 6th by end of the season. And yes, I know it is early, but these early games do come calling by the end of the season

It will be very hard to win both of these games. We are progressing, without a doubt, but we are still very very early in our turnaround and both Villa and Spurs are more stable and consistent.

Probabilistically, 4 points out of 6 in these two games will be good performance, but I am afraid it won't be enough for us to get on top4 finish trajectory...

I don't think Erik will get sacked any time soon, if we keep playing well, even if we are losing points, but he will get sacked end of the season if we don't make Champions League and/or finish below 6th. That I am certain of

Nah. No waiting till the end of the season. This is his 3rd season. He's been backed heavily. As soon as top 4 is out of reach, INEOS should fire him.
The absolute worst thing we can do this season is wait till the end to fire ETH. That means we are wasting another season. Because the next manager is going to need time to adjust and implement his philosophy so you are looking again at next season at possibly not making top 4.
Its better to fire him, have an interim for a few weeks. Bring in a manager to start implementing on his playing stytle for the rest of the season. And at least even if you don't make top 4, you start next season with a style and identity established.
ETH has to keep this team on track to top 4.He has to win atleast one of those Spurs or Villa games to stay on track because the other teams have started well. If he losses both, he should fired immediately. We need to stop treating him like a 1st year managers. Its year 3 and hundreds of millions spent

 

[MrBest]

I've been an advocate for Hag out but I recognise one thing, in the last 3 games, regardless of the opponent, a style of play is becoming more evident, we are a bit better to watch and the players look like they care. It's not perfect by all means, but you have to recognise improvement. This is Hags last chance, we have to back him unless the wheels completely fall off. Top 4 is a must in my opinion, given how much he has spent and the control he has had over certain signings.

 

[saik]

Nah. No waiting till the end of the season. This is his 3rd season. He's been backed heavily. As soon as top 4 is out of reach, INEOS should fire him.
The absolute worst thing we can do this season is wait till the end to fire ETH. That means we are wasting another season. Because the next manager is going to need time to adjust and implement his philosophy so you are looking again at next season at possibly not making top 4.
Its better to fire him, have an interim for a few weeks. Bring in a manager to start implementing on his playing stytle for the rest of the season. And at least even if you don't make top 4, you start next season with a style and identity established.
ETH has to keep this team on track to top 4.He has to win atleast one of those Spurs or Villa games to stay on track because the other teams have started well. If he losses both, he should fired immediately. We need to stop treating him like a 1st year managers. Its year 3 and hundreds of millions spent

If we truly have a best-in-class team supporting Erik ten Hag and a clear game model in place, then the next hire should be able to implement their philosophy seamlessly. Ideally, this new coach would already be familiar with the same system as the one ETH's using. Isn't that how we want to do things going forward? Hiring staff who share a unified vision, rather than bringing in someone with a completely different philosophy. That would only lead to the need for another huge outlay to sign players who fit that new manager's system.

If the manager is the sole issue and the squad and support staff are in good shape, the new hire shouldn't need much time to do what you've mentioned, much like Arne Slot or that Brighton guy did. With just a few minor tweaks, he should be able to improve us.

 

[Tyrion]

I am staggered Ineos ran a review process and decided keeping Eth was the best outcome. In the modern game long term trends are telling, he’s been poor so long he’s not going to turn it around like Fergie in the 80s/90s. We’ll keep lumbering along with odd win here and there but nothing will impress until the manager is replaced.

That's my opinion as well. I'm not too bothered about this season because I know it's basically an interim before the actual permanent manager is appointed because I think a lack of alternatives is the only think that kept EtH in charge last summer. He's effectively a caretaker now.

 

[glazed]

I've been an advocate for Hag out but I recognise one thing, in the last 3 games, regardless of the opponent, a style of play is becoming more evident, we are a bit better to watch and the players look like they care. It's not perfect by all means, but you have to recognise improvement.

I agree. Goal scoring aside, we have looked much better since Liverpool. Things are beginning to click. If we can get Hojlund or Zirkzee scoring and Ugarte in sync with Mainoo and Bruno, we have the makings of a very decent team with a little bit of strength in depth too. Things are looking up.

 

[AshRK]

I am not sure if the club can afford another season without CL. Either top 4 or win the europa.

 

[Zumbi]

If we truly have a best-in-class team supporting Erik ten Hag and a clear game model in place, then the next hire should be able to implement their philosophy seamlessly. Ideally, this new coach would already be familiar with the same system as the one ETH's using. Isn't that how we want to do things going forward? Hiring staff who share a unified vision, rather than bringing in someone with a completely different philosophy. That would only lead to the need for another huge outlay to sign players who fit that new manager's system.

If the manager is the sole issue and the squad and support staff are in good shape, the new hire shouldn't need much time to do what you've mentioned, much like Arne Slot or that Brighton guy did. With just a few minor tweaks, he should be able to improve us.

No. Just because the management structure has a clear game model in place and hires a manager in line with that, does not mean the new manager will just be a carbon copy of Ten Hag with exactly the same system and implementation and coaching methods and shape and tactics. Not sure why you would think that to be honest.

At the coaching level there’s still a world of nuance and detail on all those things below any broad philosophy that exists at club level. If they intended for there to be absolutely zero deviation from Ten Hag’s exact system, it wouldn’t even make sense to get rid of Ten Hag.

Any new manager will still need to settle in and get to know the club and the staff and the players. And even under an umbrella philosophy, there will still be plenty of tactical tweaks and coaching differences the players will need to get used to, and that always takes time.

So if Ineos decide to move on from Ten Hag, it absolutely makes sense to get the new person in asap, so there’s more time for them to implement their own methods before the start of a fresh season. Far better that than just needlessly pissing a whole season up the wall on a manager they’ve decided is not good enough.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Everyone seems to be jumping on EtH again now and the sentiment swings are really extreme.

We played great in that first half and looked proper solid.

If Garnacho's shot that hit the bar had been a couple inches lower, we'd have walked that game with Palace having to push up for a goal and made more space for our wingers.

Everyone in here would have been singing EtH's praises for this new run of form.

Fine margins.

If Eze had finished a pretty easy chance, if Onana hadn't saved a penalty when we were being outplayed by one of the worst teams in the league, if Onana hadn't made one of the best double saves of the season. If Coventry hadn't of been a millimetre offside, if Ortega hadn't had decided to throw a goal in. If we hadn't fluked a last minute breakaway goal against Liverpool in the last minute of extra time. If we hadn't beat Brighton on penalties, if Rashford didn't deflect a shot against Newcastle's 3rd choice keeper.

The "ifs" go in Ten Hag's favour far more often than not. Top managers make those irrelevant for the most part.

 

[saik]

No. Just because the management structure has a clear game model in place and hires a manager in line with that, does not mean the new manager will just be a carbon copy of Ten Hag with exactly the same system and implementation and coaching methods and shape and tactics. Not sure why you would think that to be honest.

At the coaching level there’s still a world of nuance and detail on all those things below any broad philosophy that exists at club level. If they intended for there to be absolutely zero deviation from Ten Hag’s exact system, it wouldn’t even make sense to get rid of Ten Hag.

Any new manager will still need to settle in and get to know the club and the staff and the players. And even under an umbrella philosophy, there will still be plenty of tactical tweaks and coaching differences the players will need to get used to, and that always takes time.

So if Ineos decide to move on from Ten Hag, it absolutely makes sense to get the new person in asap, so there’s more time for them to implement their own methods before the start of a fresh season. Far better that than just needlessly pissing a whole season up the wall on a manager they’ve decided is not good enough.

I’m not suggesting the new hire would be an exact carbon copy, but rather someone familiar with ETH's style and already implementing a similar approach. These are two very different things. Ideally, we want to bring in a manager who aligns with our current philosophy, minimizing the need for a squad overhaul and avoid wasting money like we did under LVG, José, and Ole, where we signed players specifically for their systems. Isn't that exactly the situation we’re trying to move away from?

People believe Slot was able to implement his system at Liverpool after just one pre-season, and the same goes for Maresca and the new Brighton manager. If the only issue is the current manager, any new hire should be able to get us performing within 1 month tops. My point is that I'm not sure why expectations for achieving top four next season would be in jeopardy even if ETH were to be sacked at the end of this season.

 

[NLunited]

Based on goals scored, matches won and points gained, it’s hard to argue Ten Hag is doing well.

Which of those metrics are ultimately more important in football?

Longterm, the performance. More points will come if we keep creating those chances.

 

[NLunited]

I’ve come to the conclusion about Ten Hag that he is probably an excellent technical coach. In that he knows how to coach players well in how to receive the ball under pressure, and play their way out of trouble. That he’s good at coaching the technical aspects of the game. But that he doesn’t know how to set a team up to be functional as a unit, and tactically he doesn’t know how to overcome opponents. This was evident yesterday with the changes he made, and how they lost us control of the game. He just doesn’t know how to positively affect outcomes or see patterns in the game.

He’s probably someone who would excel as an assistant manager, maintaining discipline and coaching technical excellence, alongside a softer more approachable AM for the human/mental side of the game. And then having him report to a head coach who can see the bigger picture, shape how players are used, how the team is set up. I just don’t see him as a leader. He doesn’t have the communication skills to inspire people and he is regularly caught out by teams changing shape or exploiting obvious weaknesses in our set up; and routinely fails to react to worrying patterns.

He’s a manager, not a leader. And I mean that in the leadership sense, not in the traditional football sense. In organisations, managers do things the right way, leaders do the right things.

I don’t see it that way. Failure can be attributed to many factors.

I believe he sent the subs out with specific instructions to affect the game: believing anything else would be incredibly naive.

I don’t have the answer, except that the team is still developing. There’s good progress but evidently lots of room for further improvement.

 

[Zumbi]

I’m not suggesting the new hire would be an exact carbon copy, but rather someone familiar with ETH's style and already implementing a similar approach. These are two very different things. Ideally, we want to bring in a manager who aligns with our current philosophy, minimizing the need for a squad overhaul and avoid wasting money like we did under LVG, José, and Ole, where we signed players specifically for their systems. Isn't that exactly the situation we’re trying to move away from?

People believe Slot was able to implement his system at Liverpool after just one pre-season, and the same goes for Maresca and the new Brighton manager. If the only issue is the current manager, any new hire should be able to get us performing within 1 month tops. My point is that I'm not sure why expectations for achieving top four next season would be in jeopardy even if ETH were to be sacked at the end of this season.

Yes, with regards to broad plying style and therefore player profile, so we don’t have to completely rebuild squads between managers. But again, there is a vast swathe of coaching and tactical nuance below that which can still take time for a new manager to implement.

If at some point during the season Ineos decide Ten Hag isn’t the man for the job, then it makes no sense to persevere with him to the end of the season if they can get their new man in sooner. The more time any new manager has to work with the players before a new season, the better.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

If you were to say that we’d display a similar progression in terms of control and cohesion over the rest of the season, that we’ve displayed over these last three games then I’d be happy.

But personally I don’t really have faith in this being carried on regardless of results becuase we’ve seen spurts of it before and it’s peters out and more importantly, this a very fragile team. Anything goes against them and they tend to break. So it feels like we need a good run for the underlying metrics of improvement to sustain.

Not sure if that makes sense. Basically it’s hard to have faith in ETHs United

 

[saik]

Yes, with regards to broad plying style and therefore player profile, so we don’t have to completely rebuild squads between managers. But again, there is a vast swathe of coaching and tactical nuance below that which can still take time for a new manager to implement.

If at some point during the season Ineos decide Ten Hag isn’t the man for the job, then it makes no sense to persevere with him to the end of the season if they can get their new man in sooner. The more time any new manager has to work with the players before a new season, the better.

The key word here being "if" for both points. The senior management team has backed ETH not just with transfers but also by significantly reshaping the coaching and medical staff. It’s unlikely they’ll make a change soon. A lot would have to go wrong results-wise—though I don't believe that will happen, as I think we’re playing well and that results should follow—or if they think that no meaningful progress is being made behind the scenes.

 

[Zumbi]

The key word here being "if" for both points. The senior management team has backed ETH not just with transfers but also by significantly reshaping the coaching and medical staff. It’s unlikely they’ll make a change soon. A lot would have to go wrong results-wise—though I don't believe that will happen, as I think we’re playing well and that results should follow—or if they think that no meaningful progress is being made behind the scenes.

You’re contradicting yourself. As we’ve already agreed, the new management structure exists to provide continuity and consistency of philosophy and personnel irrespective of manager. Therefore any recruitment actions they take cannot be portrayed as backing for a particular manager - it’s abundantly clear that Ineos would have bought new players in this summer whether Ten Hag was the manager or not. Similarly, they were always going to bring new staff in and reshape other areas of the club whether Ten Hag was manager or not. Therefore that cannot logically be used as evidence of them backing him, it’s just evidence of the restructuring that everyone knew they were going to do when they took over the footballing side of things.

The only actual evidence we have of them backing him, is them not sacking him. But they were close enough to it that they spoke to multiple potential candidates. That does not scream undying support. The only logical conclusion is that he’s actually on pretty thin ice.

If results don’t improve fast, his job is very much at risk. We’re well beyond the point of “progress behind the scenes” being enough (whatever that even means). Points wise, we’re currently on course for a worse finish than last season. That’s just not good enough and their patience will run out soon if he doesn’t turn things around results wise.

 

[Marcus]

Overall control and play of this team is already there, which is great. Need goals and results in the next 2 games and for United to go on a winning run or he won't last the season.

 

[Zumbi]

Longterm, the performance. More points will come if we keep creating those chances.

You can’t logically argue that the means are more important than the ends simply because the means have a chance of getting us to the ends. That just doesn’t make any sense.

 

[nakpodiareuben]

When people make these “if” scenarios they seem to think they could only go United’s way or something.

And the run of “form” in question - LLWWD - with one of those W’s being against Barnsley in the league cup. “Singing his praises”. God

No...it's the performance! If you are sincere, you will know that this united team has progressed

 

[nakpodiareuben]

Yes, with regards to broad plying style and therefore player profile, so we don’t have to completely rebuild squads between managers. But again, there is a vast swathe of coaching and tactical nuance below that which can still take time for a new manager to implement.

If at some point during the season Ineos decide Ten Hag isn’t the man for t

he job, then it makes no sense to persevere with him to the end of the season if they can get their new man in sooner. The more time any new manager has to work with the players before a new season, the better.

He made the subs because he wanted runners behind. Unfortunately, crystal palace refuse to take the bite. They say back making Rashford and Hojland useless.

 

[Borys]

I’ve come to the conclusion about Ten Hag that he is probably an excellent technical coach. In that he knows how to coach players well in how to receive the ball under pressure, and play their way out of trouble. That he’s good at coaching the technical aspects of the game. But that he doesn’t know how to set a team up to be functional as a unit, and tactically he doesn’t know how to overcome opponents. This was evident yesterday with the changes he made, and how they lost us control of the game. He just doesn’t know how to positively affect outcomes or see patterns in the game.

He’s probably someone who would excel as an assistant manager, maintaining discipline and coaching technical excellence, alongside a softer more approachable AM for the human/mental side of the game. And then having him report to a head coach who can see the bigger picture, shape how players are used, how the team is set up. I just don’t see him as a leader. He doesn’t have the communication skills to inspire people and he is regularly caught out by teams changing shape or exploiting obvious weaknesses in our set up; and routinely fails to react to worrying patterns.

He’s a manager, not a leader. And I mean that in the leadership sense, not in the traditional football sense. In organisations, managers do things the right way, leaders do the right things.

How did you come to that conclusion? Do you have an evidence of a player that was poor at those things and got significantly better under ten Hag?

I really don't think that's how the coaching works. You make it sound like you have credit points that you can spend on attributes on the training ground. A lot of people think that's what Ruud does for us now (in terms of finishing) what I find ridiculous.

 

[Borys]

We have a credible midfield and a solid back line. It's not the same. What we don't have is a decent centre forward because we've committed to coaching young ones rather than buying off the shelf. Will Hojland and Zirkzee come good on goal scoring? We will see. But logically RvN should be the target of our ire, not ETH.

Interesting take. I'm not even sure you're serious here, but assuming you are, surely the coaching stuff deserves credit in the first place for improvement in our overall game? Or alternatively it's just the players that we got are better and enable this change.

In both cases, what does ETH actually do?

By the way, I actually believe that (mix of both) to be true and consider Ten Hag as nothing more than a temp.

 

[ArmaDino]

My biggest beef with ETH right now is the same one I had with Ole, ie sticking with players that aren't performing. I understand trying to play someone into form, even SAF used to do that. However, looking at the way Bruno(and Rashford to a certain extent) is playing despite serving poor performance after poor performance is alarming.

Another thing that needs to be added is that this is his 3rd season here, and yet he still doesn't know his players. Last match he pulled off Eriksen, Amad and Zirkzee, our 3 players that have crisp passing under pressure and can control the tempo, and substituted them with direct players that rely on service. The problem was that the 3 players who could feed them balls, were taken off, and Bruno is having a mare so far this season.

Let's hope Erik learns from this as well. It looks like he finally abandoned his suicidal tactics from last season, so there is hope.

I would bench Bruno and go with a 4-4-2 diamond right now since Rasmus needs time to be played into form.

Onana
Mazraui - De Ligt - Martinez - Dalot

Ugarte
Mainoo Eriksen/Casemiro

Zirkzee(as a false 9/10 hybrid)

Amad Rashford/Garnacho


A very fluid line up with a perfect blend of creative players that can play both centraly and occupy the wide zones if necessary.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Do you love complaining just for the sake of it?

Eriksen plays the same role as Bruno and Mount. Except Mount is injured and Bruno is in bad form + Bruno loses balls all the time, while Eriksen doesn't. But from the perspective of squad playing the three can play same roles.

It's not that we don't have backup for Eriksen, it's that he is the backup! Bruno and Mount are ahead of him in packing order but not delivering

If Bruno was doing great, yesterday's midfield could have been Bruno-Mainoo-Ugarte

Also worth mentioning that Mainoo is not exactly tearing it up, as well. So Erik needed to add creativity and it was brilliant move from him to start Eriksen, since nobody thought it would work. It did.

If anything, Erik should have taken Bruno off in the second half but he didnt have the balls to do it

At the end of the day, with everything that could have been done, we didn't win yesterday mostly because we were not lucky. If any of those shots that hit woodwork went in, if Dean Henderson didn't make on of the saves, we could have been 2 or 3 up in the first half and it would have been over

Many of you dont realize how much football a tthe top level is about thin margins and how much luck can still play a role

Sometimes I'm still surprised that I can still be amazed on here by posters having the nerve to start a post in a condescending manner and follows it up with something so factually wrong. Well done sir.

 

[afatzp]

I really want ETH to start worrying about his position. In previous cases, he would more focus on getting results and made better tactics decisions. Now he got assured with contract extension , and he is a bit too relaxed right now. Even we have terrible start of season so far, I did not see him bursting out at sideline, neither cheering up the team or waking up them or guiding the details , none. It just seems he still feel there is lots of time testing out formation and starting 11 and cohesion among different players.

Frankly, the winning of FA cup should be buying him another 3 months of time, not another 3 seasons, and he should aware this. Finishing 8 in EPL was a new low post-fergie time , and finishing bottom at a easy group of Champion league also a disgrace. It's such a joke that he claimed we are the 2nd most successful English team in last two seasons.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Here's some more for added context:

Crystal Palace supporters are satisfied with the result because of their current form, and they created some solid chances and could've bagged the win on another day.

Man Utd supporters are satisfied with the result because they dominated the game for 60 mins, and created some solid chances and could've bagged the win on another day.

Can you see any difference in the standards and ambitions in either sets of supporters? Me neither.

 

[Borys]

My biggest beef with ETH right now is the same one I had with Ole, ie sticking with players that aren't performing. I understand trying to play someone into form, even SAF used to do that. However, looking at the way Bruno(and Rashford to a certain extent) is playing despite serving poor performance after poor performance is alarming.

Which players / case do you mean in Ole's case?

 

[VP89]

Here's some more for added context:

Crystal Palace supporters are satisfied with the result because of their current form, and they created some solid chances and could've bagged the win on another day.

Man Utd supporters are satisfied with the result because they dominated the game for 60 mins, and created some solid chances and could've bagged the win on another day.

Can you see any difference in the standards and ambitions in either sets of supporters? Me neither.

Not a single United fan is satisfied with the result.

 

[Judas]

Not a single United fan is satisfied with the result.

If this is the case why is there such an aggressive pushback in this thread by some at people dissatisfied?

 

[RiqCantona]

Erik is in tough place having failed to win against Crystal Palace. We are clearly improving, but we are losing too many points and time is running out for us to climb up the EPL table

Pragmatically, Erik needs to win against both Spurs and Villa if we want to make a real claim for top 4. Anything short of that puts us on trajectory for 5th or 6th by end of the season. And yes, I know it is early, but these early games do come calling by the end of the season

It will be very hard to win both of these games. We are progressing, without a doubt, but we are still very very early in our turnaround and both Villa and Spurs are more stable and consistent.

Probabilistically, 4 points out of 6 in these two games will be good performance, but I am afraid it won't be enough for us to get on top4 finish trajectory...

I don't think Erik will get sacked any time soon, if we keep playing well, even if we are losing points, but he will get sacked end of the season if we don't make Champions League and/or finish below 6th. That I am certain of

I also think that he won't be sacked as a knee-jerk response. Having said that, I think the board have a timeframe in mind. Results need to start coming in thick and fast. It won't be after the Villa or Spurs game, but as I mentioned in this thread a few weeks ago - I think he has till mid-December. That is a long enough time period to fully judge him. The City game is around GW16 in December. If we are languishing in 10th and lose a couple of games in Europa - he will be gone. They would want to salvage the season from then on.

 

[Sarni]

Very happy with what I wrote, thanks.

Logically RvN is the coach responsible for the centre forward goal scoring, which is the only thing missing from the performance of the one centre forward we have, Zirkzee. Logically if you were in the 80% looking for a coaching scapegoat (I'm not) and wanted to blame someone (I don't) you'd blame him, not ETH. But it would be wrong to do so.

It's not that deep.

Honest question: let’s say we have an underwhelming season again and finish 8th or below, largely driven by lack of goals as defense will have improved to less than 50 goals conceded. Would you be OK giving ETH another season with better coaches who can fix the scoring problem?

 

[crossy1686]

Longterm, the performance. More points will come if we keep creating those chances.

When we get relegated we can proudly say that we went down playing ‘our way’.

 

[TheReligion]

If this is the case why is there such an aggressive pushback in this thread by some at people dissatisfied?

I think because some posters are so entrenched in their views they simply aren’t discussing in good faith. It makes this thread utterly pointless as any reasoned response is drowned out with utter bollocks.

 

[Olecurls99]

I can see signs of an upward curve. Erik needs to make it a steep curve or he won't see the top of it.

 

[Judas]

I think because some posters are so entrenched in their views they simply aren’t discussing in good faith. It makes this thread utterly pointless as any reasoned response is drowned out with utter bollocks.

Aye. Very much seems to be the case. Too many have picked a side, and are incapable of budging. It's black or white. No shades of gray. Like if someone says they don't like potential managerial candidate to replace our current one, automatically jumped on for being a blind Ten Hag "cultist"

Or you get dog with a bone posters who will happily argue over something tiny for far too long, unable to just....let it go and move on, especially when it's two clearly entrenched posters, neither are going to change each others views, yet we've got to witness never ending dull echanges.

Imagine just having a range of different feelings and being able to adapt your opinions and views as things develop

 

[ivaldo]

I’ve come to the conclusion about Ten Hag that he is probably an excellent technical coach. In that he knows how to coach players well in how to receive the ball under pressure, and play their way out of trouble. That he’s good at coaching the technical aspects of the game. But that he doesn’t know how to set a team up to be functional as a unit, and tactically he doesn’t know how to overcome opponents. This was evident yesterday with the changes he made, and how they lost us control of the game. He just doesn’t know how to positively affect outcomes or see patterns in the game.

He’s probably someone who would excel as an assistant manager, maintaining discipline and coaching technical excellence, alongside a softer more approachable AM for the human/mental side of the game. And then having him report to a head coach who can see the bigger picture, shape how players are used, how the team is set up. I just don’t see him as a leader. He doesn’t have the communication skills to inspire people and he is regularly caught out by teams changing shape or exploiting obvious weaknesses in our set up; and routinely fails to react to worrying patterns.

He’s a manager, not a leader. And I mean that in the leadership sense, not in the traditional football sense. In organisations, managers do things the right way, leaders do the right things.

Not sure I can agree with that Simon. If anything, I would say its the opposite. We should have been 3 up at half time. That suggests to me the manager knew exactly how to set the team up. There comes a point where a manager must make substitutions, even if the team is playing well. If he kept the side largely the same, and we still finished 0-0, the same criticism would be levied at him.

 

[VP89]

If this is the case why is there such an aggressive pushback in this thread by some at people dissatisfied?

Because it was a strong performance.
You can get on the wrong end of a result despite playing very well. Just like you can play terribly and get a jammy result. This isn't a new phenomenon.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Aye. Very much seems to be the case. Too many have picked a side, and are incapable of budging. It's black or white. No shades of gray. Like if someone says they don't like potential managerial candidate to replace our current one, automatically jumped on for being a blind Ten Hag "cultist"

Or you get dog with a bone posters who will happily argue over something tiny for far too long, unable to just....let it go and move on, especially when it's two clearly entrenched posters, neither are going to change each others views, yet we've got to witness never ending dull echanges.

Imagine just having a range of different feelings and being able to adapt your opinions and views as things develop

We're in a scenario whereby there's some rabid posters who will never take to him, no matter what he does. These are the posters who actually try to dismiss the fact that he's won two trophies, made it to 3 finals, got 3rd place in his first season and has the second highest points in the league out of all our post-Fergie managers. There's actually posters who will claim he's "worse than Moyes". When you have an agenda on the internet, you gotta stand by it at all costs.

However, while I can acknowledge that he has done some good, there's also been a-lot of bad. Last season was an absolute shambles barring an excellent FA Cup win. The problem is that we were so bad last season, that slight improvements won't be hard to find. The question is whether you think these improvements will be enough for us to turn into a genuinely good side who will do well this season? For me, it's still a no. The first 45 against Palace was a good watch and we should have been ahead. The problem was that lots of issues of the past raised their heads in the second half.

If we can put together some performances like the first half against Palace for a longer period and actually rack some wins up, then great, I'm open to him changing my mind. However, right now, I really just don't see him getting us enough goals/wins. The defence looks so much better with De Ligt, and we have definitely tightned up. So there are some positives, but lots of issues still remain.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Didn't catch the game, but looks like we created enough chances to score, and kept it fairly tight at the back? If so, it seems harsh to go after him for this game in particular, even though the result is not what we needed. Hopefully we can continue to string together good performances, and results will come, but it seems clear that we will have to keep many clean sheets to get wins consistently. We are simply not clinical upfront.