Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Theonas said:
When asked late in the season what's the area we need to improve on most or something within those lines, his reply was how we progress the ball from back. I think EtH wants a striker but I think he also sees us improving our chance creation stats and ability to put our forwards in better scoring positions by improving the goalkeeping and midfield options. For that to happen, Antony, Sancho and Garnacho will need to have similar goalscoring contributions to Saka, Martinelli and Ødegaard which is no guarantee of course but I reckon EtH will be hoping if we don't get a 20+ goals striker, we can make up some of the deficit by being able to play higher up the pitch and having more numbers in the final third which necessitates a more modern goalkeeper and energetic midfield.
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I get what you are saying for sure - and I agree - but it's not like we didn't make great chances last season, it was just that aside from Rashford we had nobody that could finish worth a damn. It's annoying that we are at a point where we even have to consider where our priorities lie between 1 or 2 players, when the reality is we needed a GK a Mid and a Striker minimum this summer. I hate the Glazers so damn much man
 
L1nk said:
I get what you are saying for sure - and I agree - but it's not like we didn't make great chances last season, it was just that aside from Rashford we had nobody that could finish worth a damn. It's annoying that we are at a point where we even have to consider where our priorities lie between 1 or 2 players, when the reality is we needed a GK a Mid and a Striker minimum this summer. I hate the Glazers so damn much man
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Yea I do think it's risky. Basically a top team needs about 60 league goals a season from its front players. Arsenal managed to spread it almost evenly between Saka (14), Martinelli (15), Jesus (11) and Ødegaard (15). City pre Haaland did the same with KdB, Bernardo, Gündogan, Foden and Mahrez getting between 10 and 15 whereas Liverpool got that total from the front 3 alone. Salah would get you 20+, Mané, Firmino and someone like Jota getting some 40 goals or so between them.

Obviously if you have a top striker like Haaland or Kane and manage to fit them into what you're trying to do, the pressure is so much less on whoever else is playing in the front position which is why it would be preferable. But my answer was to the poster asking what's the plan and I think the plan is to hope that we get more out of the wide forwards plus Bruno and Mount by 1) the way we play à la Arsenal where we just create more and spend more time close to the opponent's goal and 2) individual improvements.

But yeah what the Glazers are doing in this whole sale saga is nothing but negligence. They just don't seem to care at all about the club unless we see a 200 million splurge this coming month which doesn't look likely at this moment. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Theonas said:
Yeah to be fair he was good at that at Real when he was barely ever suspended. I really think this past season is an anomaly because his two reds were really just stupid and completely avoidable. I also think he will get even better this coming season. He won't start every game but will definitely start most.
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They should never have been reds in the first place. Its comical what the likes of City and Liverpool get away with when you consider what Casemiro was getting carded for.
 
Howl said:
They should never have been reds in the first place. Its comical what the likes of City and Liverpool get away with when you consider what Casemiro was getting carded for.
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I thought the one against Palace was very unfair indeed. But I am not sure I'd agree on the one vs Southampton. When you make that challenge, you're basically daring the ref to send you off.
 
Theonas said:
Yeah to be fair he was good at that at Real when he was barely ever suspended. I really think this past season is an anomaly because his two reds were really just stupid and completely avoidable. I also think he will get even better this coming season. He won't start every game but will definitely start most.
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Yeah his two reds were a bit stupid but also quite unfair imo. Really hope he'd learn from that.
Crimson King said:
I'm pretty sure he also had the most goal involvements (goals + assists) last season after Rashford and Bruno.

That side of his game was very underrated before he came to England. He contributes a lot in attack, not just defence, which isn't something any of the young prospects people want us to sign as cover have shown they are capable of.
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Agree he's been immense for us. Turned out much better than we all thought I think.

Imo he still has at least 3 good seasons left in him and I'd doubt we could find and even if we could, afford anyone better than him. So no need to worry about the DM position anymore imo. Now all we need is to sign a good #9 and a new keeper and it's quite ok for next season I think.
 
JPRouve said:
This is probably the one thing that ETH needs to improve, his ability to rotate and give young players real and planned opportunities. Many modern managers seem to struggle with it, ETH included and it's one of those things that SAF or Wenger excelled at, they would give opportunities out of nowhere which was good for everyone involved. If your manager has a reputation for rotating and giving young players actual chances then young players and good midtable players will be more likely to join your club even if it's clearly not as a starter.
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If he has a job guaranteed not to be fired then he will give the young chance...the club will not give many chance to the manager nowaday, when the result is not right in a season or some matches in row, then the manager will be fired..
Garnacho is the example, you need to catch the chance by themselves when they had, it is a professional football world..
 
Strelok said:
Yeah his two reds were a bit stupid but also quite unfair imo. Really hope he'd learn from that.

Agree he's been immense for us. Turned out much better than we all thought I think.

Imo he still has at least 3 good seasons left in him and I'd doubt we could find and even if we could, afford anyone better than him. So no need to worry about the DM position anymore imo. Now all we need is to sign a good #9 and a new keeper and it's quite ok for next season I think.
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I agree that sorting those two positions, alongside signing Mount, will make the world of difference.

I was hoping we'd be able to get that done relatively quickly, then anyone else coming in would depend on outgoings. The briefings put out through the Athletic yesterday have dampened by hope in that though.
 
Crimson King said:
I agree that sorting those two positions, alongside signing Mount, will make the world of difference.

I was hoping we'd be able to get that done relatively quickly, then anyone else coming in would depend on outgoings. The briefings put out through the Athletic yesterday have dampened by hope in that though.
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Yeah I really hope so too. I don't follow the sale thread what was the briefings btw?
 
Strelok said:
Yeah I really hope so too. I don't follow the sale thread what was the briefings btw?
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They were just reiterating the point about how we can only spend £100m due to FFP. It was by Laurie Whitwell, so you can pretty much guarantee it came from one of his contacts inside the club. He also said we're trying to sign Bijlow now as Onana is too expensive.

It's mostly bollocks though. There are plenty of Utd fans who understand finances and how FFP is supposed to work, who have done a good job of debunking this 'party line'. Whilst there is definitely a spending point they have to be wary of, it's likely much higher than £100m. Especially as transfers are amortised over a contract length. So, Mount didn't cost over half our budget (if that budget is £100m), it was more like 10/15% of it.

The problem is the Glazers. Any spending has to come out of the club's credit line, which they're very hesitant to sanction during the takeover. The takeover is being held up because they can't agree who to sell to. The majority want the Qataris, but Joel and Avram prefer Sir Jim because he's offered them a personally better deal. We're stuck in an episode of Succession until something gives.
 
I love how, in front of the cameras, he is so protective over our players when the media are slating them (De Gea and Maguire etc) yet privately he will tell them that they aren't in his plans. His man management is very very good.
 
pascell said:
I'm gonna guess it'll be a 6 month loan to get him back match sharp and he'll come back in at the business end of the season, hope I'm wrong.
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I imagine the idea will be to send him out on loan for a season somewhere abroad away from the microscope so he can restore his value. Best outcome would be doing that for the upcoming season and selling him for a respectable fee next summer.

He shouldn't play for the club again but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to maximise what we can get for him, in my opinion.
 
JPRouve said:
This is probably the one thing that ETH needs to improve, his ability to rotate and give young players real and planned opportunities. Many modern managers seem to struggle with it, ETH included and it's one of those things that SAF or Wenger excelled at, they would give opportunities out of nowhere which was good for everyone involved. If your manager has a reputation for rotating and giving young players actual chances then young players and good midtable players will be more likely to join your club even if it's clearly not as a starter.
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I think Ten Hag has made it clear he will only play players that contribute something to the team. We will have to see how many youngsters will develop and make it during his time here. I think it is already clear many of our youth players were overhyped.

They are no longer at the club.

So far Garnacho has made it, Pellistri and Mainoo are on the doorstep. That is not bad for one season.
 
Crimson King said:
They were just reiterating the point about how we can only spend £100m due to FFP. It was by Laurie Whitwell, so you can pretty much guarantee it came from one of his contacts inside the club. He also said we're trying to sign Bijlow now as Onana is too expensive.

It's mostly bollocks though. There are plenty of Utd fans who understand finances and how FFP is supposed to work, who have done a good job of debunking this 'party line'. Whilst there is definitely a spending point they have to be wary of, it's likely much higher than £100m. Especially as transfers are amortised over a contract length. So, Mount didn't cost over half our budget (if that budget is £100m), it was more like 10/15% of it.

The problem is the Glazers. Any spending has to come out of the club's credit line, which they're very hesitant to sanction during the takeover. The takeover is being held up because they can't agree who to sell to. The majority want the Qataris, but Joel and Avram prefer Sir Jim because he's offered them a personally better deal. We're stuck in an episode of Succession until something gives.
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I see. Thanks a lot for the info mate.
 
Howl said:
They should never have been reds in the first place. Its comical what the likes of City and Liverpool get away with when you consider what Casemiro was getting carded for.
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They were Casemiro‘s first red cards in his whole career. I think some refs are out to get us.
 
NLunited said:
They were Casemiro‘s first red cards in his whole career. I think some refs are out to get us.
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Not to mention the extent of the VAR checks to award us a penalty. It was like they were making it clear to everyone that we're not getting shit unless it's clearer than clear and VAR has checked it first. Willians handball for example.
 
NLunited said:
They were Casemiro‘s first red cards in his whole career. I think some refs are out to get us.
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I think its just the standard of refereeing is dreadful which isn't just a problem with football either and no amount of technology will fix the issues. My brother is an avid hockey watcher and he was complaining about the refs this year and this is a sport where everything is monitored. Although as I say that I think about how we see City and Liverpool (City in particular) get away with fouls constantly especially when the opponent is on a counter.
 
As i said, give ETH 12 months all these substandard players will be out. For that alone, he is the right manager for us. Absolutely loving it. Genuine progress is imminent


 
Licha-Vidic said:
As i said, give ETH 12 months all these substandard players will be out. For that alone, he is the right manager for us. Absolutely loving it. Genuine progress is imminent


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But Maguire is still In he squad and even a captain. Needs to be handled as well
 
RkkMan said:
There's too many reliable reports from reliable journalists that he's signing a new contract with just minor details left the latest being from The Telegraph. I simply don't think Ten Hag is plain ass lying when he directly mentioned that the club want De Gea's contract extended. Seems like an absolute stretch to keep a player onside
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Well well well. Ten Hag is colder than you think.
 
pretty clear that EtH is putting his personal stamp on the squad and only will have players in the squad that he wants and ones he thinks can play his style of football

degea clearly fell into that and now he's gone while maguire may still be in the squad but clearly erik wants to move him on if he can as he doesn't fit the style

about time a manager showed a bit of a fergie ruthless streak
 
giggs-beckham said:
I can see the weak logic but surely he could've tried out some backups to shake up the position a bit. Especially if he's not personally convinced of DDG.
There seems to be a lot of hoping that he'll change things like possession football and new gk next season with no evidence.
Why is it obvious that DDG will be gone?
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Our backups were even worse than De Gea. The "evidence" is Ten Hag himself. If you know him and his football, it's obvious he would get rid of De Gea.
 
I have no issues with the decision in itself, releasing De Gea was ultimately the right call.

I think the way it has come about is may be not best way it could have been handled (if we believe the media about a contract being offered then withdrawn).

I'd like Ten Hag to address it in one of his first press conferences. An apology or some kind words to De Gea. It's not easy and he had to be ruthless about it but do it in a 'nice' way. Atm, it doesn't feel like the 'United' way to treat a player who's given over 10 years (some brilliant years in there) service.
 
luke511 said:
Choosing to sign him for 60 million this summer instead of next for free is a huge gamble. Waiting until next summer would’ve been a gamble too, but a much, much better value one.

We could’ve signed a midfielder that plays as a 6 and 8 to replace Fred, McTominay and cover Casemiro short and long term with that money instead. It was an urgent need last season, it’s going to be an even bigger one now they’re on their way out and Casemiro is a year older.
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Yes I'm sure everyone will be very understanding if we miss top 4 this season because we failed to update the midfield to save a transfer fee.
 
RedOrange said:
Yes I'm sure everyone will be very understanding if we miss top 4 this season because we failed to update the midfield to save a transfer fee.
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The context in the point is that a top level midfielder covering 6 and 8 would still come in, at the time someone like Caicedo potentially. I stand by that going for him and waiting for Mount next year is the better option from a value perspective, but now Mount’s here and there’s links of a 6 coming in I’m looking forward to seeing how the set up gets on.
 
luke511 said:
The context in the point is that a top level midfielder covering 6 and 8 would still come in, at the time someone like Caicedo potentially. I stand by that going for him and waiting for Mount next year is the better option from a value perspective, but now Mount’s here and there’s links of a 6 coming in I’m looking forward to seeing how the set up gets on.
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There's also no guarantee that Liverpool wouldn't have come in and bought Mount if United had decided to wait for him on a free (which for all we know is actually why they went in for him this season).

Also, when players move clubs on a free the lack of a transfer fee is offset by higher wages, signing bonuses and agent fees, so it's not necessarily cheaper for the buying club. Lots of players know this, it's why they often willingly run down their contracts, despite it being risky for them.
 
nav_10 said:
I have no issues with the decision in itself, releasing De Gea was ultimately the right call.

I think the way it has come about is may be not best way it could have been handled (if we believe the media about a contract being offered then withdrawn).

I'd like Ten Hag to address it in one of his first press conferences. An apology or some kind words to De Gea. It's not easy and he had to be ruthless about it but do it in a 'nice' way. Atm, it doesn't feel like the 'United' way to treat a player who's given over 10 years (some brilliant years in there) service.
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To be fair quite a few of our legends or simply great players have had some absolutely brutal exits: Ruud, Keane, Ronaldo, Stam etc.
 
RedOrange said:
There's also no guarantee that Liverpool wouldn't have come in and bought Mount if United had decided to wait for him on a free (which for all we know is actually why they went in for him this season).

Also, when players move clubs on a free the lack of a transfer fee is offset by higher wages, signing bonuses and agent fees, so it's not necessarily cheaper for the buying club. Lots of players know this, it's why they often willingly run down their contracts, despite it being risky for them.
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I don’t think Liverpool would’ve matched Chelsea’s asking price. £10s of millions would’ve been saved signing him next year, we’d have offered him the biggest contract so the likely scenario would’ve been him joining us. Maybe he’d stay at Chelsea if they finished higher than us, but they’d be without Caicedo because we signed him, so fat chance of that.
 
It's pure business with this guy, I love it
 
Randomly remembered that over a year ago I made a thread asking if people were willing to accept that "good" players who didn't fit ETH's style of play needed to be dropped, specifically citing Ronaldo and De Gea.

A year later and both have since won POTY awards, and both have departed the club.

I have qualms about how De Gea left but it's hard not to feel these were big moves in the right direction.
 
nav_10 said:
I have no issues with the decision in itself, releasing De Gea was ultimately the right call.

I think the way it has come about is may be not best way it could have been handled (if we believe the media about a contract being offered then withdrawn).

I'd like Ten Hag to address it in one of his first press conferences. An apology or some kind words to De Gea. It's not easy and he had to be ruthless about it but do it in a 'nice' way. Atm, it doesn't feel like the 'United' way to treat a player who's given over 10 years (some brilliant years in there) service.
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He's had a more dignified exit than the likes of Beckham, Keane and Stam. Its just business and what's best for the team comes first. Some people are going way overboard with it all
 
luke511 said:
I don’t think Liverpool would’ve matched Chelsea’s asking price. £10s of millions would’ve been saved signing him next year, we’d have offered him the biggest contract so the likely scenario would’ve been him joining us. Maybe he’d stay at Chelsea if they finished higher than us, but they’d be without Caicedo because we signed him, so fat chance of that.
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Mason Mount has been signed to play the role of progressing the ball from the defence to the forwards and joining the attack. Caicedo isn't that kind of player. It's one of the most important roles in the squad and we only have 30+ Christian Eriksen to do it. We struggled mightily when Eriksen wasn't available last year and he had to be subbed off after 60 minutes in a lot of matches even when he was fully fit, plus he leaves a lot to be desired in other areas. It really would not have made sense to forego a player who fills an immediate need to buy a more expensive player who doesn't on the off chance he'll still be available a year from now. On top of that it's likely that spending the extra 20-40 million on Caicedo would preclude buying a new keeper or striker this season.
 
RedOrange said:
Mason Mount has been signed to play the role of progressing the ball from the defence to the forwards and joining the attack. Caicedo isn't that kind of player. It's one of the most important roles in the squad and we only have 30+ Christian Eriksen to do it. We struggled mightily when Eriksen wasn't available last year and he had to be subbed off after 60 minutes in a lot of matches even when he was fully fit, plus he leaves a lot to be desired in other areas. It really would not have made sense to forego a player who fills an immediate need to buy a more expensive player who doesn't on the off chance he'll still be available a year from now. On top of that it's likely that spending the extra 20-40 million on Caicedo would preclude buying a new keeper or striker this season.
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Caicedo could've played the Fred role but to a much more consistent level, he's actually a very good passer. On top of that he would've covered Casemiro which is an urgent need. Amad could've played in the offensive 8/10 role in home games, with Eriksen, Mainoo and Mejbri as depth until next summer. This is all pointless talk now we've signed Mount so we'll just leave it at that.
 
Wonder what he's thinking so far. Preseason about to start and only noticeable incoming is mount so far. Lot of deadwood still here. No end in sight for the club sale.
 
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