Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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We've got to go all in on Erik's way of playing, and recruit accordingly. If Erik then leaves, we get a manager who plays the same way, and that way the players will be able to be utilised by the next manager without another period of changing style of play.
 
RedOrange said:
Ten Hag insisted on Antony at that price because without him we would not have finished top 4 and he would have been sacked by now. If the decision had been out of his hands, the board would have either not sanctioned any transfer at all or our crack team of scouts, analysts and executives would have spent £60 million on yet another shite-tier LW/AM hybrid who can't play on the right and you'd still be blaming ETH for the transfer anyways.
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There's nothing to suggest Antony single-handedly made the difference between us getting top 4 and not getting top 4. His contribution was significantly less than what you'd expect for a player who cost so much. Certainly we would have suffered much more if Rashford hadn't had a dramatically improved season from last year than if we simply hadn't bought Antony.
 
Dazzmondo said:
There's nothing to suggest Antony single-handedly made the difference between us getting top 4 and not getting top 4. His contribution was significantly less than what you'd expect for a player who cost so much. Certainly we would have suffered much more if Rashford hadn't had a dramatically improved season from last year than if we simply hadn't bought Antony.
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We 100% would have drawn or lost a few matches more without Antony. The same argument can be made for every player bought last summer. Top 4 was clinched with 1 match to spare and Pool were playing for nothing the last week, so the margin is smaller than it looks. Don't give me any nonsense about better alternatives being available, the decision makers above and around Ten Hag are incapable of finding/buying them anyways. You can make the argument that Elanga/Pellistri at RW would have yielded the same result but I doubt many will agree.

As to the bolded part: if you want managers to care about signings for the long term at reasonable prices, everyone will need to stop blaming them for literally everything that goes wrong at the club. This is also why we get bent over for everyone we're in for, because the managers will get sacked for 3 months of bad results no matter the circumstances and they join the club with a pitiful squad to begin with, so every transfer is life and death. Even considering this 3 of the 5 signings signed off by ETH last summer were 24 or younger and the age profile of the targets this summer seems to skew younger as well. Players aged 29+ are generally cheaper and and more likely to make an immediate impact, but you have to replace them in 2 seasons, but most United managers don't care because nobody makes it past 3 years here anyways.
 
I think with a couple more transfer windows, ETH will more or less accept that his XI is fixed. We need to be patient as it happens. Once we are there, we will just need to refresh the squad with 2-3 signings per year. Look at City, they have the best squad in the world and they are signing 2-3 signings per year. I have no doubt that ETH will end us there. First and foremost, let's start reducing the wages. I think that is the main reason that we are not finding buyers for our players. Salary structure should be put in place with more performance related payout.
 
RedOrange said:
Ten Hag insisted on Antony at that price because without him we would not have finished top 4 and he would have been sacked by now. If the decision had been out of his hands, the board would have either not sanctioned any transfer at all or our crack team of scouts, analysts and executives would have spent £60 million on yet another shite-tier LW/AM hybrid who can't play on the right and you'd still be blaming ETH for the transfer anyways.
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absolutely
 
Big Andy said:
We've got to go all in on Erik's way of playing, and recruit accordingly. If Erik then leaves, we get a manager who plays the same way, and that way the players will be able to be utilised by the next manager without another period of changing style of play.
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Very rarely works out like that though in reality anywhere.
 
RedOrange said:
We 100% would have drawn or lost a few matches more without Antony. The same argument can be made for every player bought last summer. Top 4 was clinched with 1 match to spare and Pool were playing for nothing the last week, so the margin is smaller than it looks. Don't give me any nonsense about better alternatives being available, the decision makers above and around Ten Hag are incapable of finding/buying them anyways. You can make the argument that Elanga/Pellistri at RW would have yielded the same result but I doubt many will agree.

As to the bolded part: if you want managers to care about signings for the long term at reasonable prices, everyone will need to stop blaming them for literally everything that goes wrong at the club. This is also why we get bent over for everyone we're in for, because the managers will get sacked for 3 months of bad results no matter the circumstances and they join the club with a pitiful squad to begin with, so every transfer is life and death. Even considering this 3 of the 5 signings signed off by ETH last summer were 24 or younger and the age profile of the targets this summer seems to skew younger as well. Players aged 29+ are generally cheaper and and more likely to make an immediate impact, but you have to replace them in 2 seasons, but most United managers don't care because nobody makes it past 3 years here anyways.
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He scored 4 league goals and 2 assists. Many of those were in the 1st 3 games. Not sure what points he won us. Another winger signing could have done this.
 
r0663664 said:
I think with a couple more transfer windows, ETH will more or less accept that his XI is fixed. We need to be patient as it happens. Once we are there, we will just need to refresh the squad with 2-3 signings per year. Look at City, they have the best squad in the world and they are signing 2-3 signings per year. I have no doubt that ETH will end us there. First and foremost, let's start reducing the wages. I think that is the main reason that we are not finding buyers for our players. Salary structure should be put in place with more performance related payout.
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It took Klopp 3 or 4 summer windows, I suspect it will take another couple for us. If by next year we're Glazer free I'll be much more optimistic.
 
dubplate warrior said:
It took Klopp 3 or 4 summer windows, I suspect it will take another couple for us. If by next year we're Glazer free I'll be much more optimistic.
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They bought Mane one summer, Salah the next and Alisson the one after that. With VVD and Fabinho sprinkled in. We'll need something like that to have any hope of overcoming City and Arsenal. In retrospect, it seems like Klopp just got lucky with those transfers, seeing how he's struggling to rebuild them.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Good to see ten Hag put his foot down



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Reassuring news. I'd found it baffling how he had been so positive about DDG during the season, albeit I recognise he's the type who rarely criticises individual players in public. Even if we ignore the mistakes and stuff, DDG's such a bad fit for the style of play ETH wants to do and it was visibly holding our play back.
 
L1nk said:


Not sure what to make of this from ETH if it's true
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Agreed assuming if its true why is he even being asked about it , it shouldn't be his decision to make unless Club has decided to reintegrate him then he could be consulted on how to go about it but primary decision has to made by Club management .
 
gajender said:
Agreed assuming if its true why is he even being asked about it , it shouldn't be his decision to make unless Club has decided to reintegrate him then he could be consulted on how to go about it but primary decision has to made by Club management .
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It doesn’t say Ten Hag has made the final decision
 
Poor fella. There's so much to fix at the club. Last season before we even kicked a ball it was the shitshow of the previous season, a broken squad not suitable to any of his tactics/style and the Ronaldo drama.

Now it's a lack of budget (& club sale) delaying the recruitment of key players/positions, to really kick on from last years progress, on top of trying to shift more deadwood on inflated wages and sorting the GK position.
 
Morally that's not a good look for ten Hag (but agree it shouldn't really be a call for him to make)

In terms of business sense I wonder if the idea is to build up Greenwood's value during a loan in order to get a decent fee. I don't want to see him play for United again but why not try to get more money from a club who will take that chance.
 
It’s a poisoned chalice, but Ten Hag is turning the poison into fine wine. We had lads like De Gea, Sancho, Martial and Weghorst starting regularly last season, and yet amassed 75 points. How long he continues to do so remains to be seen though - he’s not Jesus Christ, he cannot run a one man show at a club as big as ours.

Regardless, we are lucky to have him, not the other way around. Don’t rebuff me with the ‘we are Manchester United, no one is bigger than the club’ talk either, because we are not Manchester United until the Glazers sell to Qatar. Until then, Ten Hag is the most important person at the club by a mile, the man holding it all together.
 
Nickosaur said:
Morally that's not a good look for ten Hag (but agree it shouldn't really be a call for him to make)

In terms of business sense I wonder if the idea is to build up Greenwood's value during a loan in order to get a decent fee. I don't want to see him play for United again but why not try to get more money from a club who will take that chance.
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Morality is a strange thing, as it is applied easily to others
 
ETH walking into pre season and realising his squad is weaker than last season.

No Keeper and no ST.
 
pocco said:
Didn't he defend Overmars also after that stuff happened at Ajax?

The prospect of him returning and Qatar taking over is enough to put me off football for good.
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He didn't defend Overmars I believe, but he was very grateful he had the opportunity to work with him and he acknowledges that his results with Ajax are not without Overmars' hard work.

But yeah, Ten Hag always puts football first.
Promes, Onana, Overmars, he wanted Arnautovic.

But according to that tweet the club wants to loan him out. Ten Hag doesn't want to sell. Selling and loaning isn't the same is it? Or is it loan+permanent sale?
 
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pocco said:
He can play somewhere else. Sacrificing morals and ethics over £££ or success just isn't worth it.
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Who said it's about money? United as an organisation that works with young individuals have guardianship over it's younger players. The fact this happened on their watch doesn't make anyone look good when you presume that someone must have known his character before any of this even happened. It's about accurate empathy. He's finished at international level and maybe even elite club level but that doesn't mean he should just be dumped out on the street with no hope of ever being a functioning member of society again because we don't like what he did.

Send him somewhere else and hope he can make a life for himself again. He needs a fresh start elsewhere and it won't happen in the UK. If we just drop him he'll never play football again and then society will have to look after him.
 
pocco said:
Didn't he defend Overmars also after that stuff happened at Ajax?

The prospect of him returning and Qatar taking over is enough to put me off football for good.
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He did. He was also in charge when they signed Quincy Promes who is another criminal and has now been sentenced.
 
Part of being supported is helping him get rid of unwanted players. We’ve been poor on that front.
There’s not one single player being credibly linked with an exit. It’s scandalous.
 
crossy1686 said:
That people can reform their character? As much as what happened is disgusting, you kick this lad out of football and his life is over, you might as well bury him now. That's a big decision to make.
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Go and reform at another club then
 
crossy1686 said:
Who said it's about money? United as an organisation that works with young individuals have guardianship over it's younger players. The fact this happened on their watch doesn't make anyone look good when you presume that someone must have known his character before any of this even happened. It's about accurate empathy. He's finished at international level and maybe even elite club level but that doesn't mean he should just be dumped out on the street with no hope of ever being a functioning member of society again because we don't like what he did.

Send him somewhere else and hope he can make a life for himself again. He needs a fresh start elsewhere and it won't happen in the UK. If we just drop him he'll never play football again and then society will have to look after him.
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I don't know what you think we're going to do, but United can't dump him on the streets or end his career. All we can do is say that we don't want him playing for us and leave him to sort the rest, which may or may not involve a transfer fee. He will still be playing football and earning more money than he probably deserves.
 
Escobar said:
Complex topic where it is better to trust those directly involved
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With the very public way in which he was exposed, I think it's actually one case where I feel comfortable in commenting. If we decide to keep him then it will be for football reasons or because he is/was one of our most expensive assets. I can almost guarantee that if this was some rubbish player in the youth team then he'd be out of the door already.
 
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