Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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The idea we'll need two years just to make top four is ridiculous, 4th is most likely going to Tottenham and there's nothing grande about them.
Only City and Liverpool are untouchable short term, Chelsea are loosing Rudiger, Aspilicueta, Christensen, their attack is bang average and the take over hasn't even been completely sorted from what i know, so this transfer window could be difficult for them they could possibly take a step back.
Our squad isn't as bad as this season shows, so I expect a third or fourth place finish next season enough with the mediocrity.
 
Trex said:
The idea we'll need two years just to make top four is ridiculous, 4th is most likely going to Tottenham and there's nothing grande about them.
Only City and Liverpool are untouchable short term, Chelsea are loosing Rudiger, Aspilicueta, Christensen, their attack is bang average and the take over hasn't even been completely sorted from what i know, so this transfer window could be difficult for them they could possibly take a step back.
Our squad isn't as bad as this season shows, so I expect a third or fourth place finish next season enough with the mediocrity.
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Unless EtHs assessment of the situation turns out to be even more pessimistic than expected and they just blow the squad up without making commensurate signings, I think that's right. There's probably no reason why we shouldn't contend for top 4 next season. Even someone as pessimistic about the squad as RR thinks we're not looking at a lengthy rebuild here. And look at what OGS achieved with a squad as bad as the one he started out with in 19/20.
 
justsomebloke said:
Unless EtHs assessment of the situation turns out to be even more pessimistic than expected and they just blow the squad up without making commensurate signings, I think that's right. There's probably no reason why we shouldn't contend for top 4 next season. Even someone as pessimistic about the squad as RR thinks we're not looking at a lengthy rebuild here. And look at what OGS achieved with a squad as bad as the one he started out with in 19/20.
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True, a lot of fans are on the Arteta thread speaking against Arsenal lengthy rebuild with mediocre standards, but are projecting the same for ETH.
I love the football ETH Ajax team plays, but if we're going to be ruthless it includes being ruthless with the manager as well, so top four is minimum requirement for next season, if you look at recent seasons so far as you're not absolutely shit you'll achieve that.
 
horsechoker said:
£5M - CENTRE BACK = Goncalo Inacio
£35M - CENTRE MIDFIELDER = Frenkie De Jong
£10-15M - CENTRE MIDFIELDER = Ibrahim Sangare
£10-15M - VERSATILE ATTACKER = Christopher NKunku

Total spend: £60-70M. That leaves room for more strengthening, such as Rice (£50-60M) + AWB replacement.
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You do know that sarcasm is dead in transfer threads and people would be damn serious about such posts ?
 
Trex said:
True, a lot of fans are on the Arteta thread speaking against Arsenal lengthy rebuild with mediocre standards, but are projecting the same for ETH.
I love the football ETH Ajax team plays, but if we're going to be ruthless it includes being ruthless with the manager as well, so top four is minimum requirement for next season, if you look at recent seasons so far as you're not absolutely shit you'll achieve that.
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:lol::lol::lol:

Ruthless.. minimum requirements. It's exactly why Man Utd is where it is. You should stick to a plan, regardless of the results. You are where you are because you signed Moyes (who simply wasn't good enough), then Van Gaal (who was playing boring football, but actually building something), then Mourinho (because he was supposed to always win, but a total different manager to Van Gaal therefore totally new plan) and then Solskjaer (who basicly had no plan).

If you want to get somewhere you need a plan and you need to stick to it regardless of the results. You are in a massive rebuild and not in a great position in terms of players being available to you. Elite players and top prospects are not joining a team that needs a rebuild and don't play Champions League. Klopp needed two years to get to top 4 and 4 years to challenge for the title and that was in a time where the top teams of that period were declining (bar City), whereas right now Liverpool and City are miles ahead and don't look like declining within the next three years.

United could challenge top 4 next season, but it also can easily happen that United don't. New manager with a new philosophy needs time to adjust. The squad needs to be adjusted which may not be possible enough in one or two windows. The difference between getting a lucky streak or an unlucky streak in the season can easily add up to 15-20 points. This can be the difference between 3rd and 10th place. If you're finishing 10th because of a significant unlucky streak you should be able to recognize that, not panic and stick to the plan. It is a realistic possibility.

Next season won't be perfect, the game plan won't be executed perfectly, players will probably make costly mistakes here and there. That's all part of a new project. If things go well and you'll get some luck you can challenge for 4th. If the changes take more time than hoped for and United also get a bit a an unlucky run, United can easily end up somewhere around the 8th place as well. Doesn't mean you should change the plan, because as mentioned that is exactly why United is where it is right now.
 
Daslogisch said:
:lol::lol::lol:

Ruthless.. minimum requirements. It's exactly why Man Utd is where it is. You should stick to a plan, regardless of the results. You are where you are because you signed Moyes (who simply wasn't good enough), then Van Gaal (who was playing boring football, but actually building something), then Mourinho (because he was supposed to always win, but a total different manager to Van Gaal therefore totally new plan) and then Solskjaer (who basicly had no plan).

If you want to get somewhere you need a plan and you need to stick to it regardless of the results. You are in a massive rebuild and not in a great position in terms of players being available to you. Elite players and top prospects are not joining a team that needs a rebuild and don't play Champions League. Klopp needed two years to get to top 4 and 4 years to challenge for the title and that was in a time where the top teams of that period were declining (bar City), whereas right now Liverpool and City are miles ahead and don't look like declining within the next three years.

United could challenge top 4 next season, but it also can easily happen that United don't. New manager with a new philosophy needs time to adjust. The squad needs to be adjusted which may not be possible enough in one or two windows. The difference between getting a lucky streak or an unlucky streak in the season can easily add up to 15-20 points. This can be the difference between 3rd and 10th place. If you're finishing 10th because of a significant unlucky streak you should be able to recognize that, not panic and stick to the plan. It is a realistic possibility.

Next season won't be perfect, the game plan won't be executed perfectly, players will probably make costly mistakes here and there. That's all part of a new project. If things go well and you'll get some luck you can challenge for 4th. If the changes take more time than hoped for and United also get a bit a an unlucky run, United can easily end up somewhere around the 8th place as well. Doesn't mean you should change the plan, because as mentioned that is exactly why United is where it is right now.
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We should stick to an idea of a way of playing not any particular individual, the problem with our previous appointment is the differences in the way the set up their team, the standard to make top 4 is so low if you can't achieve that I don't know, I don't even see it not happening, all of Mourinho, Ole and Van gaal found a way to make it to the UCL after their first full season.
The current squad is superior to Arsenal and Tottenham, at the back we have France and England first choice center backs and Sweden's captain, our left back is England's first choice, Fred starts for Brazil, Ronaldo and Bruno are Portugal main stays, Sancho is one of the most promising young wingers in the game, plus we'll be adding a couple of signings to this, certain standards should be expected and the manager will be responsible...I fully support the appointment but the bar can't be lower than what Ole achieved in his first year especially as Ole also took over Mourinho mess.
 
Already picturing the cut to him in the crowd as we go 3 - 0 down.
 
Trex said:
We should stick to an idea of a way of playing not any particular individual, the problem with our previous appointment is the differences in the way the set up their team, the standard to make top 4 is so low if you can't achieve that I don't know, I don't even see it not happening, all of Mourinho, Ole and Van gaal found a way to make it to the UCL after their first full season.
The current squad is superior to Arsenal and Tottenham, at the back we have France and England first choice center backs and Sweden's captain, our left back is England's first choice, Fred starts for Brazil, Ronaldo and Bruno are Portugal main stays, Sancho is one of the most promising young wingers in the game, plus we'll be adding a couple of signings to this, certain standards should be expected and the manager will be responsible...I fully support the appointment but the bar can't be lower than what Ole achieved in his first year especially as Ole also took over Mourinho mess.
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I agree with your first sentence, but that's about it. Your squad has potential, but especially at the back needs major improvements. England's and Sweden's captains are average at best and don't fit in the new managers game plan at all. You basicly have two defenders that do (Varane and Shaw and maybe some talented players that may be better suits then we currently figure), but Maguire, Lindelof and AWB are pretty much useless for the new coach and they are half of your current defense + the first backup.

Your statements are not correct btw. Van Gaal did not make top 4. Mourinho did, but did have a better squad to his disposal as well as ole. But both Mourinho and Ole let the gap towards City and Liverpool grow rather than decline. The gap is now huge and Chelsea is also at least one and arguably two steps ahead of United. I can agree that United has a better squad than Arsenal and not worse than Spurs (wouldn't say better either), but those teams are further in rebuilding their team than United who are just going to get started. You have ground to make up.

As mentioned, I don't rule out that United ends in the top 4. However United are not favorites to do so in my opinion. City, Liverpool and Chelsea should finish ahead of United. I'd put Spurs slightly in favor of United as well. With Conte they have as an experienced PL manager, who is already working and building his squad for a while now and it looks like they will qualify for CL which will give them more possibilities to strenghten the squad. Hence, United can definitely be in the race next season for a top 4 spot, but realistically speaking United are not a favorite to do so.
 
Daslogisch said:
I agree with your first sentence, but that's about it. Your squad has potential, but especially at the back needs major improvements. England's and Sweden's captains are average at best and don't fit in the new managers game plan at all. You basicly have two defenders that do (Varane and Shaw and maybe some talented players that may be better suits then we currently figure), but Maguire, Lindelof and AWB are pretty much useless for the new coach and they are half of your current defense + the first backup.

Your statements are not correct btw. Van Gaal did not make top 4. Mourinho did, but did have a better squad to his disposal as well as ole. But both Mourinho and Ole let the gap towards City and Liverpool grow rather than decline. The gap is now huge and Chelsea is also at least one and arguably two steps ahead of United. I can agree that United has a better squad than Arsenal and not worse than Spurs (wouldn't say better either), but those teams are further in rebuilding their team than United who are just going to get started. You have ground to make up.

As mentioned, I don't rule out that United ends in the top 4. However United are not favorites to do so in my opinion. City, Liverpool and Chelsea should finish ahead of United. I'd put Spurs slightly in favor of United as well. With Conte they have as an experienced PL manager, who is already working and building his squad for a while now and it looks like they will qualify for CL which will give them more possibilities to strenghten the squad. Hence, United can definitely be in the race next season for a top 4 spot, but realistically speaking United are not a favorite to do so.
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Do you watch a lot of united because you seem to be getting some things wrong, first Mourinho didn't make top 4 he got in via winning the UEL, Van gaal actually did in his first year.
The only reason Tottenham sit in 4the is due to how crap united have been, the two previous seasons the Sam four teams made it in different order, as good a manager as Conte is he'll need excellent scouting to get better players, Tottenham will already count players like kulusevski and Bentacur as part of this years budget.
I agree AWB doesn't fit the football ETH would like to play but Maguire is quite similar stylistically to De ligt, so I don't see any issue there, and I see no reasons why Lindelof a center back known for his through balls can't play under ETH, mind you this guys on their regular level are superior to Arsenal and Tottenham options.
I don't expect smooth sailing but top four is within our reach, he should at least fail before the excuses are made, we shouldn't be setting low bars.
 
Trex said:
Do you watch a lot of united because you seem to be getting some things wrong, first Mourinho didn't make top 4 he got in via winning the UEL, Van gaal actually did in his first year.
The only reason Tottenham sit in 4the is due to how crap united have been, the two previous seasons the Sam four teams made it in different order, as good a manager as Conte is he'll need excellent scouting to get better players, Tottenham will already count players like kulusevski and Bentacur as part of this years budget.
I agree AWB doesn't fit the football ETH would like to play but Maguire is quite similar stylistically to De ligt, so I don't see any issue there, and I see no reasons why Lindelof a center back known for his through balls can't play under ETH, mind you this guys on their regular level are superior to Arsenal and Tottenham options.
I don't expect smooth sailing but top four is within our reach, he should at least fail before the excuses are made, we shouldn't be setting low bars.
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I am sorry you are right. Being an Ajax fan I should have known United qualified for CL via EL.. I guess I banned those thoughts. My bad ;)

I agree Spurs is in top 4 because how bad United has been, but that's exactly my point. They are ahead now and the manager has already spent some time working on the team rebuilding it. With CL football he'll have an easier time recruiting better players than Ten Hag.

Comparing Maguire to De Ligt... are you for real? The only thing they have in common that they are both tall and good in heading the ball. De Ligt is far better in possession and quicker. De Ligt can play a high line and therefore be great in a team that plays attacking football and presses its opponent on it's own half. Maguire is slow, turns like a truck and is poor in possession. If Ten Hag makes Maguire work in his football he really is a miracle worker.
 
Daslogisch said:
I am sorry you are right. Being an Ajax fan I should have known United qualified for CL via EL.. I guess I banned those thoughts. My bad ;)

I agree Spurs is in top 4 because how bad United has been, but that's exactly my point. They are ahead now and the manager has already spent some time working on the team rebuilding it. With CL football he'll have an easier time recruiting better players than Ten Hag.

Comparing Maguire to De Ligt... are you for real? The only thing they have in common that they are both tall and good in heading the ball. De Ligt is far better in possession and quicker. De Ligt can play a high line and therefore be great in a team that plays attacking football and presses its opponent on it's own half. Maguire is slow, turns like a truck and is poor in possession. If Ten Hag makes Maguire work in his football he really is a miracle worker.
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Regarding Tottenham, this is their regular level of the players at their disposal, Some even taking a step up (Son, Kulusevski) were as just about every united player have underperformed this season, if ETH can get them back to their regular level that is what they played under Ole disjointed set up they'll match or outperform spurs, and he is suppose to be a better trainer so he could get the extra out of them we felt Ole wasn't getting, due to the lack of cohesion and defined way of playing that I without the new additions he would be bringing in to implement his vision.
Regarding Maguire I don't think he is that terrible a player although I'm not his biggest fan, we'll have to wait and see.
I see you're an Ajax fan looking out for your manager, but I most say he'll be successful here if he can get the most of what is already at his disposal as well as the new addition he'll be bringing in, and what is already at his disposal is not so bad that standards shouldn't be set from the get go.
 
Daslogisch said:
:lol::lol::lol:

Ruthless.. minimum requirements. It's exactly why Man Utd is where it is. You should stick to a plan, regardless of the results. You are where you are because you signed Moyes (who simply wasn't good enough), then Van Gaal (who was playing boring football, but actually building something), then Mourinho (because he was supposed to always win, but a total different manager to Van Gaal therefore totally new plan) and then Solskjaer (who basicly had no plan).

If you want to get somewhere you need a plan and you need to stick to it regardless of the results. You are in a massive rebuild and not in a great position in terms of players being available to you. Elite players and top prospects are not joining a team that needs a rebuild and don't play Champions League. Klopp needed two years to get to top 4 and 4 years to challenge for the title and that was in a time where the top teams of that period were declining (bar City), whereas right now Liverpool and City are miles ahead and don't look like declining within the next three years.

United could challenge top 4 next season, but it also can easily happen that United don't. New manager with a new philosophy needs time to adjust. The squad needs to be adjusted which may not be possible enough in one or two windows. The difference between getting a lucky streak or an unlucky streak in the season can easily add up to 15-20 points. This can be the difference between 3rd and 10th place. If you're finishing 10th because of a significant unlucky streak you should be able to recognize that, not panic and stick to the plan. It is a realistic possibility.

Next season won't be perfect, the game plan won't be executed perfectly, players will probably make costly mistakes here and there. That's all part of a new project. If things go well and you'll get some luck you can challenge for 4th. If the changes take more time than hoped for and United also get a bit a an unlucky run, United can easily end up somewhere around the 8th place as well. Doesn't mean you should change the plan, because as mentioned that is exactly why United is where it is right now.
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There is quite a bit of revisionist history with the Klopp appointment, that it took him 2 seasons to get Liverpool into the top 4, that he / Liverpool were quite bad his first season. That’s not true. When he came in, on Oct 5 2015, Liverpool was in 10th with 12 points from 8 matches. They finished 8th, with 60 points, so he improved them on a points per match basis from 1.2 to 1.6. Also, he made the finals of the League Cup v City, lost on penalties, and made the final of the Europa League and lost To Sevilla… the next season, they finished 4th.

If we want / need / aspire to have a top manager, I don’t see anything wrong with evaluating them at the end of the first season. A top manager should be able to provide decent results in 50 odd matches over the season (EPL and cup comps). I think improvement in points is a must. Maybe not top 4 if it requires 75 points to get top 4… but at least, say, 68-70 points. Also, a cup run would be nice.

It’s interesting to me that some of the fans seem to think that we should take the path of Liverpool and City building an entire organization around one individual — the manager, versus trying to be the best organization, so that when a new manager comes in, they have everything in place to be successful immediately, more like the Real and Bayern model. I prefer the latter to the former…
 
DSG said:
There is quite a bit of revisionist history with the Klopp appointment, that it took him 2 seasons to get Liverpool into the top 4, that he / Liverpool were quite bad his first season. That’s not true. When he came in, on Oct 5 2015, Liverpool was in 10th with 12 points from 8 matches. They finished 8th, with 60 points, so he improved them on a points per match basis from 1.2 to 1.6. Also, he made the finals of the League Cup v City, lost on penalties, and made the final of the Europa League and lost To Sevilla… the next season, they finished 4th.

If we want / need / aspire to have a top manager, I don’t see anything wrong with evaluating them at the end of the first season. A top manager should be able to provide decent results in 50 odd matches over the season (EPL and cup comps). I think improvement in points is a must. Maybe not top 4 if it requires 75 points to get top 4… but at least, say, 68-70 points. Also, a cup run would be nice.

It’s interesting to me that some of the fans seem to think that we should take the path of Liverpool and City building an entire organization around one individual — the manager, versus trying to be the best organization, so that when a new manager comes in, they have everything in place to be successful immediately, more like the Real and Bayern model. I prefer the latter to the former…
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I mean the two needn't be mutually exclusive. The work those two clubs have done behind the scenes to accommodate their respective managers will only benefit them in the long run, even after they leave. It would be the same with us and Ten Hag. He's not asking us to build him palaces or erect statues of his shiny bald head around Stretford, the demands he's making regarding our approach to recruitment, approach to training and the system he envisage us playing would only benefit us in the long run, especially with the much needed restructuring we'd need to accommodate all that.
 
DSG said:
There is quite a bit of revisionist history with the Klopp appointment, that it took him 2 seasons to get Liverpool into the top 4, that he / Liverpool were quite bad his first season. That’s not true. When he came in, on Oct 5 2015, Liverpool was in 10th with 12 points from 8 matches. They finished 8th, with 60 points, so he improved them on a points per match basis from 1.2 to 1.6. Also, he made the finals of the League Cup v City, lost on penalties, and made the final of the Europa League and lost To Sevilla… the next season, they finished 4th.

If we want / need / aspire to have a top manager, I don’t see anything wrong with evaluating them at the end of the first season. A top manager should be able to provide decent results in 50 odd matches over the season (EPL and cup comps). I think improvement in points is a must. Maybe not top 4 if it requires 75 points to get top 4… but at least, say, 68-70 points. Also, a cup run would be nice.

It’s interesting to me that some of the fans seem to think that we should take the path of Liverpool and City building an entire organization around one individual — the manager, versus trying to be the best organization, so that when a new manager comes in, they have everything in place to be successful immediately, more like the Real and Bayern model. I prefer the latter to the former…
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Your math a bit off there buddy. He "improved" them from 1.5 points per match to 1.6.
 
Think he's haunted becausebhe didn't realise when he came out of an office 200+ miles from manchester late in an evening that there would be 20+ bozos still there fighting over the best picture
 
I thought we should not do big marquee signings anymore. It hasn’t served us well..
 
It’s his normal look. Im so excited for things to come
 
As it stands with us in 6th position are we playing in Europe next season?

Europa or Conference League?
 
Daslogisch said:
I am sorry you are right. Being an Ajax fan I should have known United qualified for CL via EL.. I guess I banned those thoughts. My bad ;)

I agree Spurs is in top 4 because how bad United has been, but that's exactly my point. They are ahead now and the manager has already spent some time working on the team rebuilding it. With CL football he'll have an easier time recruiting better players than Ten Hag.

Comparing Maguire to De Ligt... are you for real? The only thing they have in common that they are both tall and good in heading the ball. De Ligt is far better in possession and quicker. De Ligt can play a high line and therefore be great in a team that plays attacking football and presses its opponent on it's own half. Maguire is slow, turns like a truck and is poor in possession. If Ten Hag makes Maguire work in his football he really is a miracle worker.
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I don't think Maguire is poor in possession, rather the opposite actually. Slow yes, but not that.
 
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