Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Member 125352]

We definitely overpaid - we paid as much as you would expect to pay for a fully developed top class player and he's clearly not there yet. But the price tag is not his, or ETH's fault. He is a definite upgrade on our right wing options though - and plenty of time to improve further. Salah was a flop at his age too.

I know Salah was considered a flop then but he just looked more talented to me. He has such natural technique, the way he handles the ball is quite rare.
But we see a Garnacho who is still raw as well but he is already at Antony’s level and what did he cost? I just wish our scouts would do a better job.

 

[el3mel]

Absolutely loved the reaction from the team after securing top 4. Didn't act a fool or like they won a trophy, like the trash at Newcastle. Clapped for the fans, went about business. The mentally is great he instills

Last time Newcastle played in CL was 20 years ago. Of course it means far more to them than Manchester United. "Trash at Newcastle".. I will never understand why some of our fans find it cool to mock other clubs for celebrating.

 

[redcafe_reader]

I know Salah was considered a flop then but he just looked more talented to me. He has such natural technique, the way he handles the ball is quite rare.
But we see a Garnacho who is still raw as well but he is already at Antony’s level and what did he cost? I just wish our scouts would do a better job.

I disagree.

In some area Garnacho is better than Antony, but he's not on the same level as Antony. He's still very raw, lose the ball a lot, his defensive game is not as good and his link up game is not on Antony's level.

We obviously overpaid for Antony but I don't think he's as bad as people think. In my opinion, most of the time our attacking pattern is better with Antony than any other wing forward in the team.

 

[Red in STL]

I know Salah was considered a flop then but he just looked more talented to me. He has such natural technique, the way he handles the ball is quite rare.
But we see a Garnacho who is still raw as well but he is already at Antony’s level and what did he cost? I just wish our scouts would do a better job.

Garnacho may have a bigger attacking threat but he's nowhere near Antony's overall level, I've no doubt he'll get there though

 

[Member 125352]

I disagree.

In some area Garnacho is better than Antony, but he's not on the same level as Antony. He's still very raw, lose the ball a lot, his defensive game is not as good and his link up game is not on Antony's level.

We obviously overpaid for Antony but I don't think he's as bad as people think. In my opinion, most of the time our attacking pattern is better with Antony than any other wing forward in the team.

It is true he loses the ball often but it is his style of play, it is all or nothin. He is also good for at least 1 big chance each game from inside the penalty area. As for our attacking pattern it is at its best when Rashford plays up top, he makes beautiful runs into space that Bruno loves passing the ball into. Antony brings the ball from point A to B but then shoots wide or passes backwards, that is literally it. His inside crosses are not dangerous either
Bruno loses the ball a lot as well yet he is our main creating player. I think it is worth the risk playing very offensive thinking players, if we lose at least we go out in style.

 

[The_Order]

Same people trotting out the same miserable crap. What’s the point of watching football if you’re going to take so little pleasure out of it? Seems really odd.

They’re not United fans.

opps everywhere.

 

[DSG]

Sigh. I'm tired of this. RR had the short end of everything. The club didn't back him in January and everyone knew the club hadn't backed him. It's impossible to compare him with other permanent managers.

The fact that ETH, with the influence associated with being a permanent manager, has implemented a large number of the things RR tried to do should be obvious.

Now try doing those things with slabhead, ronnie, Pogba and lingard stinking up the dressing room

The small slice of United fans who continue to defend Ralf Rangnick is bizarre to say the least. Saying he had the short end of everything just proves my point. These were the same players, by and large, who Ole took to 2nd and 3rd and a couple of cup finals. ETH and Ole toiled under the same weak minded goblins (Glazers) and substandard management that Ralf did, yet had infinitely better records. Ralf was so poor in every way and so unqualified as a manager for such a huge club.

Neither of us know what Ralf tried to do. The only thing we can do is judge him on results — just like the rest of our managers, mind you — and those were piss poor.

 

[DSG]

I disagree.

In some area Garnacho is better than Antony, but he's not on the same level as Antony. He's still very raw, lose the ball a lot, his defensive game is not as good and his link up game is not on Antony's level.

We obviously overpaid for Antony but I don't think he's as bad as people think. In my opinion, most of the time our attacking pattern is better with Antony than any other wing forward in the team.

I hope Antony kicks on. Given his return of 7 goals and 3 assists in equivalent of 31 matches (90min) €95m is a lot of money. Garnacho has 5 goals and 2 assists in 12 matches (90s).

Antony seemed to create a lot of opportunities on the break, he was just very poor with the final ball and finishing. If he was able to hit 10 and 10 next season, I’d be okay with that return.

 

[alexthelion]

If we somehow win the FA Cup its an 8/10 season. Right now, i'd give it a 6/10. Rock bottom expectations coming into the season
has helped fan perception but overall, not much different to the other post-Fergie United sides that finished in the top 4. Some really good things and some really bad things. The summer will essentially tell us what he really is about and will make or break his long-term future with the club. He really needs to be brave. The team is still carying a lot of deadwood. Needs to get rid of a lot of that. Then, he needs to trust the younger players more and try to add a lot more control and comfort on the ball to the squad. Once again, next season is a huge season for Manchester United. Just like in 15/16, 18/19, 20/21 and 21/22, expectations are sky high again. Hopefully we are not disappointed this time.

 

[erikcred]

Last time Newcastle played in CL was 20 years ago. Of course it means far more to them than Manchester United. "Trash at Newcastle".. I will never understand why some of our fans find it cool to mock other clubs for celebrating.

They've even been relegated twice meanwhile! I totally get the jubilation.

 

[Real_Knut]

Aside from improving the points total, goals scored, goals conceded and winning a trophy, I think there are a few more things to cause a positive review of ETH's first season as a United manager.

1. We are far better when it comes to getting more players into attacking positions without (mostly) compromising our defensive balance. When we attack, there are more players in and around the penalty area than there were with Ole or Mourinho (or Rangnick, though he may not be relevant). It has also lead to some more threat against organized defenses, though there is still a way to go there.

2. When playing out from defense, there seems to be more of a plan. We used to see quite frequently how our fullbacks received the ball under pressure from two or more opposition players. Wan Bissaka struggled with this and it is why his passing ability has become underrated. I'm not saying that he is a good passer, just that he is not as bad as has been perceived. Shaw is far better in those positions but he still found himself frequently in situations where he had no good passing lanes except back to Maguire. And we all know Maguire is not the player we would want to have the ball under pressure.

I think ETH underestimated the problems with mentality in the squad when he took over. He alluded to this after the Brentford game, saying that the team "lacked faith". That defeatist mentality is still there to some extent - we have seen it against Liverpool, Sevilla and to some extent, Newcastle away. Whether he can remedy that remains to be seen but winning games and trophies probably goes a long way.

There are some other things which could also be pointed out but this is long enough.

 

[Borys]

I disagree.

In some area Garnacho is better than Antony, but he's not on the same level as Antony. He's still very raw, lose the ball a lot, his defensive game is not as good and his link up game is not on Antony's level.

We obviously overpaid for Antony but I don't think he's as bad as people think. In my opinion, most of the time our attacking pattern is better with Antony than any other wing forward in the team.

Well Bruno playing RW creates significantly more chances and works just as hard as Antony. Sancho on the right is more of a question, but he created as many chances in 45mins from the right as Antony has whole season. He also has more goal contributions than Sancho per 90'.

Antony is in the team but not because he's an attacking threat. Whether that is something to build on - I have my doubts. He's isn't bad mind you. But he certainly didn't have a good season.

 

[Borninthe80ts]

Aside from improving the points total, goals scored, goals conceded and winning a trophy, I think there are a few more things to cause a positive review of ETH's first season as a United manager.

1. We are far better when it comes to getting more players into attacking positions without (mostly) compromising our defensive balance. When we attack, there are more players in and around the penalty area than there were with Ole or Mourinho (or Rangnick, though he may not be relevant). It has also lead to some more threat against organized defenses, though there is still a way to go there.

2. When playing out from defense, there seems to be more of a plan. We used to see quite frequently how our fullbacks received the ball under pressure from two or more opposition players. Wan Bissaka struggled with this and it is why his passing ability has become underrated. I'm not saying that he is a good passer, just that he is not as bad as has been perceived. Shaw is far better in those positions but he still found himself frequently in situations where he had no good passing lanes except back to Maguire. And we all know Maguire is not the player we would want to have the ball under pressure.

I think ETH underestimated the problems with mentality in the squad when he took over. He alluded to this after the Brentford game, saying that the team "lacked faith". That defeatist mentality is still there to some extent - we have seen it against Liverpool, Sevilla and to some extent, Newcastle away. Whether he can remedy that remains to be seen but winning games and trophies probably goes a long way.

There are some other things which could also be pointed out but this is long enough.

Yeah I totally agree with the points made here especially the mentality issue. I raised this point in another thread and feel the effect of this is underestimated by many, but the impact Ten Hag has made has been tremendous. To get the leveldhs of performance out of the players mentioned as well as others who had been maligned is a credit.

As you say there are so many points that can be assessed and we can conclude that there has been positive improvement but lengthy posts can be counterproductive. Especially in the current climate.

The main positive for me is that there seems to be a plan that the majority are working to, takeover not withstanding. This was a trait from the successful days that the club has been lacking recently for me. I’ve read quotes through out the season of people saying everyone happier and this resonates with Fergies “ tea ladies” comment from the past.

 

[Real_Knut]

...The main positive for me is that there seems to be a plan that the majority are working to, takeover not withstanding. This was a trait from the successful days that the club has been lacking recently for me. I’ve read quotes through out the season of people saying everyone happier and this resonates with Fergies “ tea ladies” comment from the past.

Agreed, the planning both on and off the pitch seems to be better and more structured. You can see on the pitch that there is something they are working towards implementing, which hasn't quite come off yet. At the same time, ETH's handling of disciplinary issues indicates that he has support from the higher-ups.

 

[Someone]

I’d argue that stat boils down to our attack not scoring enough goals. More of our games are live to the 90th minute so the opposition haven’t given up the ghost and keep pushing to the end.
I honestly don’t see teams playing through the midfield like you do.

I agree. Goals kill games and we've had plenty of chances to do that, but because we fail to score most of our games remain on edge till the end.

 

[El Jefe]

Like he says in his pre match presser, everything hinges on our signings.

I think he can be very successful here but if we make poor signings we'll just have another season like this one. This year was successful because it's his first year but I don't see him or us being happy with the same next year.

After watching how we've played under him this season I think its absolutely important that we not only add technical players but physical and athletic players. We need to win the ball back up the pitch much quicker and close the spaces we leave behind when we push players up. This is why Liverpool were so dominant with Klopp and we need similar player.

Martial, Sancho and Eriksen in the team means we are seriously lacking in pace and intensity. Rice or Caicedo will be great as will Frimpomg, also not mad at Mount at the right price. Personally I want a striker that fits this mould too, Osimhen is the best bet but his price is ridiculous. Kolo Muani also fits but there's a lot more question marks about his quality.

I do hope to see our passing as a team improve. Our ability to keep the ball and pass out from tbe back needs to go up a level next year and hopefully it will.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

The small slice of United fans who continue to defend Ralf Rangnick is bizarre to say the least. Saying he had the short end of everything just proves my point. These were the same players, by and large, who Ole took to 2nd and 3rd and a couple of cup finals. ETH and Ole toiled under the same weak minded goblins (Glazers) and substandard management that Ralf did, yet had infinitely better records. Ralf was so poor in every way and so unqualified as a manager for such a huge club.

Neither of us know what Ralf tried to do. The only thing we can do is judge him on results — just like the rest of our managers, mind you — and those were piss poor.

God knows I don't want to kick off a RR debate, but this post spectacularly ignores any kind of context. Comparing the records of Ole and ETH with RR is disingenuous. As is saying that "these were the same players, by and large, who Ole took to 2nd and 3rd and a couple of cup finals", they were also the ones that got him the sack (although that's not to absolve Ole of guilt - he was an incredibly limited manager). Don't really understand the need to put the boot in on RR, he came into a total mess, and the club were not clear on what his role really was (i.e. was he there - like most caretakers - to just try and salvage the season and steady the ship for a few months, or was he there as part of a wider strategy to overhaul the playing side of the club?). Let's just be glad that we finally got a permanent appointment right - whether or not he delivers the kind of success that we all crave ETH is already showing that he is changing the culture of the club, he's signing players with the correct mentality, and with financial support in the summer we could really be going places.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

I agree. Goals kill games and we've had plenty of chances to do that, but because we fail to score most of our games remain on edge till the end.

This is on the money.

 

[NLunited]

I mean come on. We didn't really, yes we nullified their attack for the most part but we were toothless and didn't look like scoring until the game suddenly got turned upside down. It's crazy to say we deserved to win. Draw maybe, win not at all.

Nope we deserved to win that one. City was toothless that day, which was our accomplishment.

 

[Toshey]

A bunch of people need to be banned. It's actually bizarre at this point. In this thread I feel like I'm having conversations with opposition fans, not Manchester United fans. Some posters actually come out as DESPERATE to find something to criticise or even shit on the team/players/coach.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

A bunch of people need to be banned. It's actually bizarre at this point. In this thread I feel like I'm having conversations with opposition fans, not Manchester United fans. Some posters actually come out as DESPERATE to find something to criticise or even shit on the team/players/coach.

You are spot on. Finish top 4? That's because other teams have been shit. Beat City? That was a fluke. Top 4 and a trophy (maybe 2)? 6/10 season. Best season since Fergie? Can't be cos we lost 7-0. And so on it goes.

I genuinely don't know what goes on in their heads.

 

[Hoof the ball]

There's a rather myopic view that is growing within this forum, and it's the notion that because Ten Hag is willing to set a deeper line to counter more, that somehow this is a replication of what Ole did, as if football was simplistic as that.

The above viewpoint really exposes those on here who simply do not get football in any subtle or detailed way, other than in huge brush strokes and generalities.

If you cannot see how individual players move differently within the whole, than under Ole, then there's no conversation to be had because you're not willing to see football in systemic detail at all.

 

[December_16]

The weird thing is thus thread had such a positive vibe for the most part. And then it turned to shite.

 

[macheda14]

Nope we deserved to win that one. City was toothless that day, which was our accomplishment.

We were both toothless and they took the lead. Without that awful decision we wouldn't have won. You can take the red specs off mate, sometimes we get lucky, it's fine.

 

[redcafe_reader]

Well Bruno playing RW creates significantly more chances and works just as hard as Antony. Sancho on the right is more of a question, but he created as many chances in 45mins from the right as Antony has whole season. He also has more goal contributions than Sancho per 90'.

Antony is in the team but not because he's an attacking threat. Whether that is something to build on - I have my doubts. He's isn't bad mind you. But he certainly didn't have a good season.

Well but I didn't consider Bruno a "wing forward". I don't think I prefer Sancho over Antony this season as well.

My post is that I disagree about Garnacho "already on the same level as Antony" so I don't understand why people (not just you) quote me and talk about other thing. I am not saying he didn't have to improve or we didn't over pay for him. Just that he's not as bad as other think.

 

[Member 58925]

There's a rather myopic view that is growing within this forum, and it's the notion that because Ten Hag is willing to set a deeper line to counter more, that somehow this is a replication of what Ole did, as if football was simplistic as that.

The above viewpoint really exposes those on here who simply do not get football in any subtle or detailed way, other than in huge brush strokes and generalities.

If you cannot see how individual players move differently within the whole, than under Ole, then there's no conversation to be had because you're not willing to see football in systemic detail at all.

Not only that but the reason it’s taking time to implement a high intensity system is the stark contrast between this system and the prior one.

 

[Ish]

Are there like really, honestly, United fans miserable after we win (& after having secured top 4 - possibly 3rd, with a tropy and in another final)? Wow.

 

[Member 58925]

We were both toothless and they took the lead. Without that awful decision we wouldn't have won. You can take the red specs off mate, sometimes we get lucky, it's fine.

Odd you didn’t watch the first half of that match.

 

[Ish]

A bunch of people need to be banned. It's actually bizarre at this point. In this thread I feel like I'm having conversations with opposition fans, not Manchester United fans. Some posters actually come out as DESPERATE to find something to criticise or even shit on the team/players/coach.

Just caught up with te last few pages and i wouldn't advocate banning anyone but yeah, it's quite weird how unhappy some United fans are, instead of just trying to see some positivity and enjoy the improvement and achievement instead of trying to downplay it...

 

[Eli Zee]

ETH is going to be worshipped here if we win the FA cup final...two trophies, prevent city treble, CL football. Turn a good season to a great one.

We're a good squad, have a good manager... we just need some additional improvements for a few starting players/squad depth for ETH to work his magic.

We really need to sign a striker. Imagine Rashford with another 25+ goal season and a striker doing the same.... it's a shame we don't have Mason anymore as I feel he had so much potential and goal scoring ability.

very excited to watch us next year.... can't wait to see who joins us (hopefully it's not a disappointing window).

 

[Toshey]

We were both toothless and they took the lead. Without that awful decision we wouldn't have won. You can take the red specs off mate, sometimes we get lucky, it's fine.

Did that decision make you sad? Are you angry that we won? Do you have prophetic abilities? How do you know that we wouldn't have turned the game around even if the goal was disallowed?
Really, feck off.

 

[criticalanalysis]

ETH is going to be worshipped here if we win the FA cup final...two trophies, prevent city treble, CL football. Turn a good season to a great one.

We're a good squad, have a good manager... we just need some additional improvements for a few starting players/squad depth for ETH to work his magic.

We really need to sign a striker. Imagine Rashford with another 25+ goal season and a striker doing the same.... it's a shame we don't have Mason anymore as I feel he had so much potential and goal scoring ability.

very excited to watch us next year.... can't wait to see who joins us (hopefully it's not a disappointing window).

If we do, I'm sure there are some, who will still try to make it out like this will be a 7/10 season at best.

 

[DutchSerb]

Sigh. I'm tired of this. RR had the short end of everything. The club didn't back him in January and everyone knew the club hadn't backed him. It's impossible to compare him with other permanent managers.

The fact that ETH, with the influence associated with being a permanent manager, has implemented a large number of the things RR tried to do should be obvious.

Now try doing those things with slabhead, ronnie, Pogba and lingard stinking up the dressing room

Well it's not like a made a valiant effort of changing that dressing room. He made it even worse by slagging them off in the pressers every chance he got. Obviously the fans loved it, but it was embarrassing for a manager to do that. All he did was collect a paycheck and bounce. I agree it makes no sense to compare him to other managers. RR never had any ambition to be involved with this club for a prolonged period of time. And I'm glad about that.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Well it's not like a made a valiant effort of changing that dressing room. He made it even worse by slagging them off in the pressers every chance he got. Obviously the fans loved it, but it was embarrassing for a manager to do that. All he did was collect a paycheck and bounce. I agree it makes no sense to compare him to other managers. RR never had any ambition to be involved with this club for a prolonged period of time. And I'm glad about that.

What are you basing this statement on? Didn't his contract include 2 years in an advisory position after the initial management period? In his first presser he referenced that by saying that he may even 'advise' that he should continue as manager.

He was naively honest with the press, but tbh I quite liked that. I assume he was looking at the big picture, which was that (as far as he knew) he would be overseeing the removal of the underperforming players so it didn't really matter if he hurt their feelings. There was clearly confusion around his role, and in retrospect it was kinda ridiculous to give someone a joint role like that, but it was hardly his fault.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

A bunch of people need to be banned. It's actually bizarre at this point. In this thread I feel like I'm having conversations with opposition fans, not Manchester United fans. Some posters actually come out as DESPERATE to find something to criticise or even shit on the team/players/coach.

Agreed.

And it's seemingly getting worse and worse as time goes on.

 

[Rayman96]

A bunch of people need to be banned. It's actually bizarre at this point. In this thread I feel like I'm having conversations with opposition fans, not Manchester United fans. Some posters actually come out as DESPERATE to find something to criticise or even shit on the team/players/coach.

I find it quite disturbing that a lot of people are agreeing with you here. You don't ban people for having a different opinion from you. That's North Korea or Nazi Germany..
As long as people are honest and respectful with each other, a healthy debate is what keeps these forums alive.
If we all were only allowed to say how brilliant we were, no matter how shit we were playing, it would grow boring very fast

 

[Witchking]

While I do not see united winning the fa cup, I hope united win the fa cup. We have the right man who can tactically get us the win.

Just don't trust the players to get the job done. Due to the quality of the players we have, we need to concentrate full 90 plus extra time. Won't see much of the ball so have to keep defending the majority of the match. Might get one or two great chances which we will have to take and we cannot let city score first.

If only we had a quality number 9 and Martinez in the team, I would be more hopeful.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

I find it quite disturbing that a lot of people are agreeing with you here. You don't ban people for having a different opinion from you. That's North Korea or Nazi Germany..
As long as people are honest and respectful with each other, a healthy debate is what keeps these forums alive.
If we all were only allowed to say how brilliant we were, no matter how shit we were playing, it would grow boring very fast

It's just hyperbole mate. But I think some of these posters ought to admit who they really support.

 

[Rightnr]

I find it quite disturbing that a lot of people are agreeing with you here. You don't ban people for having a different opinion from you. That's North Korea or Nazi Germany..
As long as people are honest and respectful with each other, a healthy debate is what keeps these forums alive.
If we all were only allowed to say how brilliant we were, no matter how shit we were playing, it would grow boring very fast

There's a huge crowd on this forum who play the nice guy but the moment they find someone who doesn't kowtow to their dumb opinion, they ask for bans.

It's pathetic.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

There's a huge crowd on this forum who play the nice guy but the moment they find someone who doesn't kowtow to their dumb opinion, they ask for bans.

It's pathetic.

I would love to see an example of someone asking for a ban for someone who doesn't agree with a demonstrably dumb opinion? Or is this just hyperbole too?