Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[erikcred]

Why do people say this? Their second starting 11 is:

Ortega

Akanji Laporte ? Lewis

Philips Rodrigo

Mahrez Palmer? Foden

Alvarez​

Our second starting 11:

Butland

Dalot Maguire Lindelof Malacia

McTominay Fred

Sancho Sabitzer Garnacho

Weghorst​

There is hardly much difference between them. The keepers are meh, the defenses are quite comparable (one might argue that Akanji is a starter, but same can be said for Dalot), maybe United's is better. The midfield is pretty equal. Mahrez and Foden are better than Sancho and Garnacho. Sabitzer is better than Palmer. Alvarez is much better than Weghorst.

So an advantage to United in defense, and arguably in midfield. City has better attack. Neither squad is a starting XI though, if that was the starting eleven of City, they would be at best, at midtable.

First of all, people don't literally mean that there is a whole second set of 11 players who will end up in the top-4 if they played as City B. It means that they have many players who could easily slot into the first team with almost no drop in the overall quality.

Secondly, I'm sure you already see how flimsy your example is by the way you've casually waved aside Laporte, Mahrez, Foden and fecking Alvarez with some meaningless sentences.

Mahrez and Foden are better than Sancho and Garnacho? Yea we know that. But the point is by how much? And the answer is, by a country mile. Similarly, just saying Alvarez is much better than Weghorst is like saying Pep is much better than Sean Dyche, big whup. Which reminds me. They're still coached by Pep! If this team would be midtable, ours would be fighting relegation all season.

So, yea the people who say City have gathered a squad with two quality teams are absolutely right.

 

[prateik]

United 20-21
League Position : 2nd
Points : 74
FA Cup: Quarters
League Cup: Semi finals
Europa League: Finals.

The 21 summer window fecked us over.. Ronaldo and no midfielder killed the momentum.

Feels like we are in a lot better place with ETH.. so its all good.. but we have been up and down a lot in recent seasons. We need a solid transfer window.. and one that doesnt disrupt the squad.

 

[Borys]

I think it's been a good season results-wise and not so good style-wise. He is here for the results so no complaints. However... most of the improvement came from getting new players + installing some confidence in the likes of Rashford, Bruno, Shaw, Wan Bissaka etc. Here he definitely deserves credit.

He had amazing pile of shite to deal with in terms of Ronaldo situation, no strikers available, and some poor players who he had to work with (De Gea, Martial, Sancho etc). I think those things considered he did really good. Next season I hope we actually have some style and control over games.

Good thing is compared to Arsenal and City we have a lot of room for improvement and we will address at least 2 pain points (I'd say we have 4). That should see us to significant progress next season. But no chance Liverpool and Chelsea are so shite next season so ETH was a bit lucky here.

United 20-21
League Position : 2nd
Points : 74
FA Cup: Quarters
League Cup: Semi finals
Europa League: Finals.

The 21 summer window fecked us over.. Ronaldo and no midfielder killed the momentum.

Feels like we are in a lot better place with ETH.. so its all good.. but we have been up and down a lot in recent seasons. We need a solid transfer window.. and one that doesnt disrupt the squad.

This. We are in good position but we will either jump a lever higher or fall. We won't stay on this level without striker and Eriksen in CM. This summer is crucial.

 

[erikcred]

I dont get how people think its an amazing season, or miracle that we are where we are now. We have had a successful season but we cannot kid ourselves, we are quite lucky as well.

We concede chances against every team, clear cut chances as well, which shows the football we play is not sustainable. On the beach Chelsea carved out 5/6 clear cut chances against us, its worrying to see that happen.

We are so far off the better teams. I thought we would be better and further in our football progression than where we are right now.

It's not a miracle, sure. But ETH has answered almost every big picture challenge posed this season with aplomb. That's giving people optimism. Don't need to be complaining all the time.

After the disastrous start, we questioned whether he'll be pragmatic enough to change his ways and stabilise results. He did that.
Can he handle an over-the-hill super star throwing a strop? Yea he can.
When we found ourselves with a clean path to the league cup, we questioned whether we'll be able to make it all the way. Done.
When we started getting a bit worried about top-3 and wondered whether he'll be able to settle the team down and seal the deal? Got the answer now.

Except for the away losses, this season has been excellent given where we were last season. And given where we ended up this season, the expectations for next season are obviously higher.

 

[cyberman]

I think it's been a good season results-wise and not so good style-wise. He is here for the results so no complaints. However... most of the improvement came from getting new players + installing some confidence in the likes of Rashford, Bruno, Shaw, Wan Bissaka etc. Here he definitely deserves credit.

He had amazing pile of shite to deal with in terms of Ronaldo situation, no strikers available, and some poor players who he had to work with (De Gea, Martial, Sancho etc). I think those things considered he did really good. Next season I hope we actually have some style and control over games.

Good thing is compared to Arsenal and City we have a lot of room for improvement and we will address at least 2 pain points (I'd say we have 4). That should see us to significant progress next season. But no chance Liverpool and Chelsea are so shite next season so ETH was a bit lucky here.

To be fair wouldn’t he be unlucky that Arsenal and Newcastle had the season of their lives this year?

 

[GifLord]

Wow. Didn’t realise the difference was so big! Still waiting for the likes of @GifLord to swing by and argue that we’ve actual got a very similar points per game to last season…

Do you think we'd finish in top 4 if both Chelsea and Liverpool weren't so poor this season? Be honest

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Exceeded my expectations for this season, especially after those first couple of games where it was clear that he was going to be under serious pressure if that Liverpool game went badly. But he dealt with that well and also handled the Ronaldo, Maguire situations perfectly. Add in the tough schedule, that we've spent a lot of the season without a proper CF plus the distraction of the club being up for sale and I don't think you could realistically expect much better.

With another pre-season and hopefully some extra time in-between games I have confidence we'll see further improvement next year.

 

[Borys]

To be fair wouldn’t he be unlucky that Arsenal and Newcastle had the season of their lives this year?

Arsenal was level above us last season so it isn't a surprise they finished in higher. Newcastle are having a great season I give you that.
One of Liverpool/Chelsea dropping isn't that much of a surprise, but BOTH dropping like that is a shock. Anyway, us finishing 4th I'd consider business as usual/expected. 3rd is a good result but I do think this is a bit lucky on our part, also considering we didn't look that good most of the season and GD/xG would confirm that.

 

[SirAF]

At least one trophy + CL football secured in his first season. Can't argue against those results.

 

[cyberman]

Arsenal was level above us last season so it isn't a surprise they finished in higher. Newcastle are having a great season I give you that.
One of Liverpool/Chelsea dropping isn't that much of a surprise, but BOTH dropping like that is a shock. Anyway, us finishing 4th I'd consider business as usual/expected. 3rd is a good result but I do think this is a bit lucky on our part, also considering we didn't look that good most of the season and GD/xG would confirm that.

I just think Arsenal being on 80 odd points and being top of the table for so long is as much of a shock as Liverpool finishing 5th. You can’t really be lucky in getting 75 odd points, table never lies and all that.
I’d also argue a lot of fans on here argued the fact Chelsea would have a terrible season as soon as they sacked Tuchel and hired Potter. Not as bad as they have been but anything below 6/7th really becomes immaterial. Chelsea not getting close to CL wasn’t that much of a shock

 

[Marwood]

Really good season overall.

BUT please avoid a battering in the final. Another embarrassment would really taint things.

 

[bosnian_red]

Arsenal was level above us last season so it isn't a surprise they finished in higher. Newcastle are having a great season I give you that.
One of Liverpool/Chelsea dropping isn't that much of a surprise, but BOTH dropping like that is a shock. Anyway, us finishing 4th I'd consider business as usual/expected. 3rd is a good result but I do think this is a bit lucky on our part, also considering we didn't look that good most of the season and GD/xG would confirm that.

TBF there isn't a whole lot between our xG and Arsenal's this season. We have 4 fewer and conceded 3.5 more than them, for a total of 5 xPts fewer. Literally just taking into account fixture congestion between the 2 and that alone is probably enough to explain a gap like that. Add in our striker personnel, goalkeeper, first season for ten hag... I fully expect us to surpass them next season.

 

[romufc]

And what score was the last match we played against them?

It’s really weird how much of a hard on some of you have for City. Yes they’re currently a better team than us but why bother even supporting the club if you’ve already given up on the final?

I’m assuming you won’t be watching seen as how you already know the result.

Yes, people have a hard one for City. A team that has won 4/5 PL titles, could do a treble. yeah we are all making it up about how good they are.

Your assumptions are incorrect.

 

[Toshey]

Some people here seem to believe every other team is amazing and we're shit.

Let me wake you the feck up.
Every team has lucky moments. Every team makes mistakes. Every team concedes chances.

Stop being miserable moaners.

 

[romufc]

It's not a miracle, sure. But ETH has answered almost every big picture challenge posed this season with aplomb. That's giving people optimism. Don't need to be complaining all the time.

After the disastrous start, we questioned whether he'll be pragmatic enough to change his ways and stabilise results. He did that.
Can he handle an over-the-hill super star throwing a strop? Yea he can.
When we found ourselves with a clean path to the league cup, we questioned whether we'll be able to make it all the way. Done.
When we started getting a bit worried about top-3 and wondered whether he'll be able to settle the team down and seal the deal? Got the answer now.

Except for the away losses, this season has been excellent given where we were last season. And given where we ended up this season, the expectations for next season are obviously higher.

Yep, which is why I have said its been a successful season for us. He has shown alot of good things which is why, I back Ten Hag and expect him to improve us in the next season with a full pre season.

There are definitely alot of positives to take but I want us to be back at the big table where we go into games knowing we will fight, give a good account in every game.

Too many games this season away we have been dominated.

 

[tenpoless]

To slap some sense to all the resident moaners:

2016/2017 ManCity - Pep's first season where he inherited the best squad in the league with core players that fit his style of football:
PL: 3rd (78 points)
FA Cup: Semi-finals
League Cup: Fourth round
CL : Round of 16

Ten Hag's first season where he inherited a non functional, imbalance team lacking of fighting spirit, with world cup mid season, injuries to core players and had to make do with subpar players on loan:
PL: 3rd (72-75 points)
FA Cup: Final (can still win it)
League Cup: Winner
Europa League: Quarter-finals

You can vent out your frustration whenever we have a bad game/result. It's understandable. But please don't be stupid. You don't want Melissa Reddy, a Liverpool fan to speak more sense than you when it comes into United manager. You've seen it yourself how bad we were before.

For it to be fair you want to compare first season vs first season.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Some absolute wrong 'uns on this thread. I'm not sure they are even United fans.

 

[CG1010]

United 20-21
League Position : 2nd
Points : 74
FA Cup: Quarters
League Cup: Semi finals
Europa League: Finals.

The 21 summer window fecked us over.. Ronaldo and no midfielder killed the momentum.

Feels like we are in a lot better place with ETH.. so its all good.. but we have been up and down a lot in recent seasons. We need a solid transfer window.. and one that doesnt disrupt the squad.

Bingo! People calling it amazing season or achievement have lost all measure of standards. Yes there were several difficulties to overcome, least of all our poor last season, but at the same time ETH ended up spending and had some good players to start with also.

 

[King7Eric]

United 20-21
League Position : 2nd
Points : 74
FA Cup: Quarters
League Cup: Semi finals
Europa League: Finals.

The 21 summer window fecked us over.. Ronaldo and no midfielder killed the momentum.

Feels like we are in a lot better place with ETH.. so its all good.. but we have been up and down a lot in recent seasons. We need a solid transfer window.. and one that doesnt disrupt the squad.

I hope people keep perspective and don't go overboard. We have had such seasons before under Ole and Jose but we could never follow them up.

It's been a good season but we really need a very good transfer window and build on it. Next season is when we will really see how much progress we have made.

 

[Revan]

First of all, people don't literally mean that there is a whole second set of 11 players who will end up in the top-4 if they played as City B. It means that they have many players who could easily slot into the first team with almost no drop in the overall quality.

Secondly, I'm sure you already see how flimsy your example is by the way you've casually waved aside Laporte, Mahrez, Foden and fecking Alvarez with some meaningless sentences.

Mahrez and Foden are better than Sancho and Garnacho? Yea we know that. But the point is by how much? And the answer is, by a country mile. Similarly, just saying Alvarez is much better than Weghorst is like saying Pep is much better than Sean Dyche, big whup. Which reminds me. They're still coached by Pep! If this team would be midtable, ours would be fighting relegation all season.

So, yea the people who say City have gathered a squad with two quality teams are absolutely right.

I think the issue is that outside those 3, Laporte and whomever of Akanji/Stones/Walker/Ake is not starting, they do not have much. So, their first 11 is great (albeit we would have never considered starting material Akanji or Ake), but outside of them, they have 5 real quality players in the bench. So it is not two elevens, more like an eleven and a five whom are quality.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

United 20-21
League Position : 2nd
Points : 74
FA Cup: Quarters
League Cup: Semi finals
Europa League: Finals.

The 21 summer window fecked us over.. Ronaldo and no midfielder killed the momentum.

Feels like we are in a lot better place with ETH.. so its all good.. but we have been up and down a lot in recent seasons. We need a solid transfer window.. and one that doesnt disrupt the squad.

That's one way to look at it. The underlying stats (the one's with an X in front of them) were telling a different story, though. There was no momentum. If anything, United had plateaued under Solskjaer in 20/21. All the progress was achieved in his first full season, with the main difference being that United were underachievers in most categories in 19/20 while they punched above their weight in 20/21. It remains to be seen what will happen under ETH. But i believe that the fact that he's on his way to overhaul the entire axis of the first team bar Fernandes (Casemiro/Eriksen for McFred, Licha/Varane for Maguire/Lindelof, a new forward soon to arrive and with De Gea's future status yet to be decided) kind of agrees with the picture these numbers were painting back then.

 

[Buster15]

I hope people keep perspective and don't go overboard. We have had such seasons before under Ole and Jose but we could never follow them up.

It's been a good season but we really need a very good transfer window and build on it. Next season is when we will really see how much progress we have made.

Yes. That is a very fair point.
But somehow it feels a bit different to me anyway. We seem to be better coached and better organised.

 

[Bilbo]

Some absolute wrong 'uns on this thread. I'm not sure they are even United fans.

It's a wonderful reminder of why so many people don't visit the mains anymore.

We all had that kid at school that wouldn't ever hear anything bad about the team he supported. Redcafe has the opposite. Dozens of them

 

[bosnian_red]

I hope people keep perspective and don't go overboard. We have had such seasons before under Ole and Jose but we could never follow them up.

It's been a good season but we really need a very good transfer window and build on it. Next season is when we will really see how much progress we have made.

We previously had good seasons but they always felt like the absolute max we could achieve. We never played with a clear system or implemented modern coaching into our game, until now. It's very clear to me that just ironing out some errors, and then just addressing each specific gap and this team takes massive steps. It wasn't entirely clear before what we needed to take steps forward, and it was always felt that we need better coaching to get us there. That's the key difference. Ole did well until he collapsed, but he never had it in him to take us further and it always looked like that.

 

[Adnan]

First of all, people don't literally mean that there is a whole second set of 11 players who will end up in the top-4 if they played as City B. It means that they have many players who could easily slot into the first team with almost no drop in the overall quality.

Secondly, I'm sure you already see how flimsy your example is by the way you've casually waved aside Laporte, Mahrez, Foden and fecking Alvarez with some meaningless sentences.

Mahrez and Foden are better than Sancho and Garnacho? Yea we know that. But the point is by how much? And the answer is, by a country mile. Similarly, just saying Alvarez is much better than Weghorst is like saying Pep is much better than Sean Dyche, big whup. Which reminds me. They're still coached by Pep! If this team would be midtable, ours would be fighting relegation all season.

So, yea the people who say City have gathered a squad with two quality teams are absolutely right.

City's second choice keeper would start for us due to him being a much better fit for the way ten Hag wants to play due to Ortega being capable with the ball at his feet.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

It's a wonderful reminder of why so many people don't visit the mains anymore.

We all had that kid at school that wouldn't ever hear anything bad about the team he supported. Redcafe has the opposite. Dozens of them

I'm going to be generous and assume that most of them are young kids with no concept of context or understanding of what it takes to turn a club like United around. If they don't have the naivety of youth as an excuse then I despair for them.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

We previously had good seasons but they always felt like the absolute max we could achieve.

Spot on!

 

[Borys]

TBF there isn't a whole lot between our xG and Arsenal's this season. We have 4 fewer and conceded 3.5 more than them, for a total of 5 xPts fewer. Literally just taking into account fixture congestion between the 2 and that alone is probably enough to explain a gap like that. Add in our striker personnel, goalkeeper, first season for ten hag... I fully expect us to surpass them next season.

There are however 3 teams below us who have higher xG and better xG-xGA ratio (and GD). Arsenal doesn't have that much higher xG, but xG-xGA is much better as they control games and limit opposition chances. Like I said, a level above us this season. So stats are not in our favour and we overachieved in a sense, although this is an oversimplification.

 

[crossy1686]

Officially a 'good' season in my opinion.

Top 4 is done, teams like United are made for the Champions League and it's where we should be every season, minimum requirement for keeping one's job.
We've bagged a trophy and have another final to look forward to

Can't ask for more than that when you consider where we're currently at as a club and team.

Next season however you would expect to see the style of play improve and top 4 achieved comfortably with some good cup runs. That's all down to the recruitment though so we have to get it right this summer and I'm not sure a trio of Kane, Rice and Mount will cut it unfortunately.

 

[erikcred]

I think the issue is that outside those 3, Laporte and whomever of Akanji/Stones/Walker/Ake is not starting, they do not have much. So, their first 11 is great (albeit we would have never considered starting material Akanji or Ake), but outside of them, they have 5 real quality players in the bench. So it is not two elevens, more like an eleven and a five whom are quality.

That's my whole point. These 5 players are not part of the second team. They are players who could easily be starting for City week-in week-out. In fact, they have all played major roles in their 3-in-3 titles. No other team has 5 players of this quality sitting on the bench simply because there is no space in the first team for them currently.

In fact, the only reason they are subs is because Pep says so. If we all had to pick our best City 11, you'll likely find diverse opinions where many include some of these players in their team. On the other hand, for every other team, there is an obvious first 11 or 12 and then a clear step down to the rest and it's obvious why they're on the bench.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Do you think we'd finish in top 4 if both Chelsea and Liverpool weren't so poor this season? Be honest

Every single season features at least one, usually two, big teams having a poor campaign. So that’s a pointless question. And it also ignores that the Saudis have added Newcastle to the big threats for CL places.

But the main thing is, we’re not one of the big teams having a poor campaign this time round. Right?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Why do people say this? Their second starting 11 is:

Ortega

Akanji Laporte ? Lewis

Philips Rodrigo

Mahrez Palmer? Foden

Alvarez​

Our second starting 11:

Butland

Dalot Maguire Lindelof Malacia

McTominay Fred

Sancho Sabitzer Garnacho

Weghorst​

There is hardly much difference between them. The keepers are meh, the defenses are quite comparable (one might argue that Akanji is a starter, but same can be said for Dalot), maybe United's is better. The midfield is pretty equal. Mahrez and Foden are better than Sancho and Garnacho. Sabitzer is better than Palmer. Alvarez is much better than Weghorst.

So an advantage to United in defense, and arguably in midfield. City has better attack. Neither squad is a starting XI though, if that was the starting eleven of City, they would be at best, at midtable.

I see 5 players are far better and good enough for any starting XI team that challenging the league. While the 6th one is good enough to start and be key player for Spurs. To have 6 quality in their squad depth is exactly what any team need anyway, 6 quality squad depth to cover 10 outfield positions. Quality over quantity.

Basically, Akanji and Laporte are much better CB than Maguire and Lindelöf. While Phillips is better than McFred because I rate Phillips to be good enough for Spurs while imo McFred is west ham level at best. Mahrez and Foden are much better than Sancho and Garnacho. Their full backs are meh but their backup full backs rarely play anyway, Pep uses CB as full back now.

 

[Manncunian]

Yes, and also concede 5 goals. So you think we are solid defensively? Lets see how many City put past us in the final then.

The same City we beat at OT this season?! God your pessimism is insufferable.

 

[Revan]

I see 5 players are far better and good enough for any starting XI team that challenging the league. While the 6th one is good enough to start and be key player for Spurs. To have 6 quality in their squad depth is exactly what any team need anyway, 6 quality squad depth to cover 10 outfield positions. Quality over quantity.

Basically, Akanji and Laporte are much better CB than Maguire and Lindelöf. While Phillips is better than McFred because I rate Phillips to be good enough for Spurs while imo McFred is west ham level at best. Mahrez and Foden are much better than Sancho and Garnacho. Their full backs are meh but their backup full backs rarely play anyway, Pep uses CB as full back now.

If they played for the other teams, we would have said the exact opposite. That Lindelof and Maguire are better than Akanji and Laporte (or at least better than Akanji). I do not see much difference between them to be fair. And then we have Dalot who is better than whatever City have.

Phillips is around the same quality as Fred or McTominay. A very limited player who can do an ok job in some circumstances.

They have three good attackers in Mahrez, Foden and Alvarez. Unfortunately, Sancho so far has been a waste of money, and Garnacho might be good but too early to say. Nevertheless, is a slight advantage for City, not by much.

The main difference is in the first 11, not cause they have two great first XI or anything like that. Everyone in their first 11 is good (or made to look good cause of the system like Ederson or Akanji or Ake), while we have Martial, Eriksen and Antony who are not good enough for a first XI. They have essentially an active roster of 16 reliable player, which is far from two starting XI.

 

[Fortitude]

He's navigated the season superbly well considering the issues he and the football department have had to face with the owners, Ronaldo and the high volume of games with minimal rest. He's working with the recruitment department and it's about signing players who fit the play style in question which requires control with and without the ball. It doesn't matter where those players are from but rather if those players help with aiding the development of the play style he wants to develop.

He's had to adapt his approach to get us to third and I think that's absolutely superb considering the problems Ronaldo caused aswell the challenge to adapt to certain players who are not suited to his methods.

As well as the World Cup and the ludicrous amount of games we’ve played, it shows tremendous navigation and adaptation if nothing else.

This is him utilising a squad that doesn’t fit with his ideals at all, which lends intrigue to what would or could happen with a superfluous squad of interchangeable players that doesn’t rely on any one component to function.

 

[romufc]

The same City we beat at OT this season?! God your pessimism is insufferable.

Oh yes, you must think we are as good as City then.

 

[RickRudesDong]

The same City we beat at OT this season?! God your pessimism is insufferable.

That City game at OT was a fluke. They were in 2nd gear, we were at our ceiling and we needed an offside goal to equalize.

 

[Manncunian]

Oh yes, you must think we are as good as City then.

Not what I said. But thanks for demonstrating a total lack of understanding.

The fact you can’t grasp the simple fact that one game of football and its result doesn’t dictate which team is better overall is astonishing. Cup competitions are often won by teams who weren’t anywhere near the top of the table.

If football worked how you seem to think it does, the League Cup and FA Cup would be won by the team which finished first in the PL every single season.

 

[bosskeano]

love the mentality of always pushing to get better and to improve .....however u have to be a bit careful as players could read that the wrong way and take offense to it

 

[Borys]

I just think Arsenal being on 80 odd points and being top of the table for so long is as much of a shock as Liverpool finishing 5th. You can’t really be lucky in getting 75 odd points, table never lies and all that.
I’d also argue a lot of fans on here argued the fact Chelsea would have a terrible season as soon as they sacked Tuchel and hired Potter. Not as bad as they have been but anything below 6/7th really becomes immaterial. Chelsea not getting close to CL wasn’t that much of a shock

Arsenal made a good progress this season while other top dogs went shite.
On the bolded part, if you refer to United then I just point out we've been overachieving if you compare our position in the table vs GD table and xGD table. So we basically scored when it mattered and got the results.
Like I said before, one of Chelsea/Liverpool/Tottenham dropping wouldn't be a surprise at all, but all of them out of top 4 (with Tottenham finishing 8th and Chelsea 12th) is an anomaly that I would not count on next season.