Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Raoul]

Easy to have an aura and appear charming when you're winning. Nothing's really changed though, just that people were grossly overrating him when we were doing well, and being overly negative when things are not.

I think part of it is that winning the league cup made people believe we were better than we actually are at the moment, which given all the injuries, was never going to result in a proper league run. Still making the FA Cup final is a pretty good result for a first year manager.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I also think it worked for a while because teams weren't sure if he was a threat, now that they know he's virtually harmless we are essentially playing with 10 men.

Our own players know he isn't a threat as well, it's why he never gets the ball. If Ten Hag actually watches film he'd see that within 10 minutes because it's obvious.

 

[kouroux]

Easy to have an aura and appear charming when you're winning. Nothing's really changed though, just that people were grossly overrating him when we were doing well, and being overly negative when things are not.

I'd agree with this take. However it's been a few weeks that I've been a bit skeptical but it's been hard to talk about it on the caf since ETH is very popular

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Easy to have an aura and appear charming when you're winning. Nothing's really changed though, just that people were grossly overrating him when we were doing well, and being overly negative when things are not.

I wasn't rating him highly just because of a few results. People who don't know football only look at results to make a judgement. I rated him highly because I could clearly see the process and change in how we looked to approach games and play. I also appreciated the qualities he looked for in his signings and could see there was a PLAN. Problem is now he's also made some decisions that seem obviously wrong and are hurting results (Weghorst and De Gea being obvious ones) and that sort of decision making is tough to come to terms with. It's the same mistakes our previous managers have made. Ole rated McTominay and Maguire far too highly which in turn meant we singed a far overpriced CB that never fit into a modern style and trusted a mediocre midfielder as a first choice DM while neglecting the position in the transfer market. Those two things ended up being being factors either directly or indirectly in his subsequent sacking. I can only hope it doesn't turn out the same way with ETH.

 

[Nicolarra90]

I always evaluate seasons in halves, and below 30 points a half is not Manchester united material.

He has 24 points this half so basically he's in a position where top 4 is almost the bare minimum.

 

[AlPistacho]

He has this tendency to try and make himself look like a genius by making bold moves you couldn’t see 95% of managers even attempting, similar to Pep. The difference being when Pep does it, it usually does not backfire as spectacularly and he’s also not as stubborn about it. Weghorst at #10 is one of these things.

Complete opposite. When Pep does it it gets his team knocked out of CL SF and lost them one final.

The whole tactical genius thing with Pep started when he identified the space between RM CB & CM and first played with Messi as a false 9 and Barca won 4 or 5 nil. That’s literally it. Beyond that Peps success is built on repetition and slow evolution, when he tries his “genius match day tricks” it’s cost his teams big.

 

[AlPistacho]

So we’ve come to the stage where we’ve realised ETH doesn’t shit gold. Now we know he’s just a man, with his own flaws and blind spots, we have to realise every manager is the same. From the David Moyes and Ole’s to the goats like SAF, Ancelotti etc.

The simple question is does his positives far outweigh his negatives enough to make United a top team again? So far yes

 

[Waynne]

Patience is needed for sure, that's the thing I have the least of

We'll get there in the end. Sometimes people forget its Ten Hag's first season. At one point he got us playing like he's been around for years and it's just about finding the consistency to do that throughout the season.

Have faith.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

So we’ve come to the stage where we’ve realised ETH doesn’t shit gold. Now we know he’s just a man, with his own flaws and blind spots, we have to realise every manager is the same. From the David Moyes and Ole’s to the goats like SAF, Ancelotti etc.

Which is exactly why the manager (regardless of whether it's ETH or anyone else) needs to be a relatively unimportant cog in a well-oiled machine. Our tendency to treat United managers like demigods and give them full control over every aspect of football operations sets us up for failure time and time again.

 

[surf]

Which is exactly why the manager (regardless of whether it's ETH or anyone else) needs to be a relatively unimportant cog in a well-oiled machine. Our tendency to treat United managers like demigods and give them full control over every aspect of football operations sets us up for failure time and time again.

Bang on. ETH has played his part pretty well this season in often difficult circumstances.

 

[Raoul]

I do think ETH has had to deal with a ridiculous amount of injuries, suspensions, and drama. If not for most of that, we would have another 10-15 points and many of these narratives questioning him wouldn't exist. He just needs to make the most of this summer and clear the dead wood in exchange for a few quality signings, most notably a proper striker.

 

[kouroux]

We'll get there in the end. Sometimes people forget its Ten Hag's first season. At one point he got us playing like he's been around for years and it's just about finding the consistency to do that throughout the season.

Have faith.

Deep down I know you're right, I just hate how I feel right now.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Which is exactly why the manager (regardless of whether it's ETH or anyone else) needs to be a relatively unimportant cog in a well-oiled machine. Our tendency to treat United managers like demigods and give them full control over every aspect of football operations sets us up for failure time and time again.

I can only hope our new owners see this. We need to stop treating every manager after Fergie like he's Fergie himself. That model won't work and has repeatedly failed.

Ratcliffe did talk about this in a video ironically(regarding the club being a well-oiled machine). If his bid is successful, I just hope he follows through on his words.

 

[bosnian_red]

Which is exactly why the manager (regardless of whether it's ETH or anyone else) needs to be a relatively unimportant cog in a well-oiled machine. Our tendency to treat United managers like demigods and give them full control over every aspect of football operations sets us up for failure time and time again.

The managers will always be the most important cog, it's just important to delegate transfers properly where the manager has input but not so much power. Ten Hag even said as much, referencing Txiki at city.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He needs to stop playing Weghorst. There is simply no justification for it. Even less so, when you're shifting 2 players in order to accommodate him.

The push back against this criticism is Martial/Sancho being poor too. Well, even at their worst, they're far more useful than Weghorst out there. And there's other ways to be creative without shoeing in Weghorst if one doesn't want to play Martial/Sancho.

He simply can't afford to not make top 4(because you never know what the new owners will do). Next game is massive.

 

[Raoul]

He needs to stop playing Weghorst. There is simply no justification for it. Even less so, when you're shifting 2 players in order to accommodate him.

The push back against this criticism is Martial/Sancho being poor too. Well, even at their worst, they're far more useful than Weghorst out there. And there's other ways to be creative without shoeing in Weghorst if one doesn't want to play Martial/Sancho.

He simply can't afford to not make top 4(because you never know what the new owners will do). Next game is massive.

It would be a no brainer to bench Wout if Martial was contributing. Unfortunately, he isn't and also doesn't do much pressing when needed.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

It would be a no brainer to bench Wout if Martial was contributing. Unfortunately, he isn't and also doesn't do much pressing when needed.

But Martial at his worst is still better than Weghorst. Especially because Ten Hag is shifting Bruno out wide in order to play Weghorst.

It's piss-poor management by him lately. If he doesn't want to use Martial, put in another midfielder. He's using a set-up that has routinely backfired for us lately.

 

[Raoul]

But Martial at his worst is still better than Weghorst. Especially because Ten Hag is shifting Bruno out wide in order to play Weghorst.

It's piss-poor management by him lately. If he doesn't want to use Martial, put in another midfielder. He's using a set-up that has routinely backfired for us lately.

I actually think Antony's ineffectiveness is another contributing factor to our lack of goals. He's far too one dimensional, which has a knock on effect in our build ups and balls going into the box. So no matter who we play, there will always be inefficiency on the right, even if Bruno is occasionally deputized to go there (which isn't a natural role for him).

 

[hobbers]

Patience is needed. We're at least 3 - 4 years away from the level of consistency you're seeing with teams like City.

That's the old 'finding excuses for an incompetent manager' spiel that was rubbish with previous managers and still now. Doesn't take 3 or 4 years to make a team consistent and competitive. Not with the finances we have.

ETH deserves two more transfer windows but if we dont have a team looking like a cemented top 3 and CL-worthy after that then it's because he is failing.

 

[AR87]

I have a lot of time for ETH and still believe in him long-term, but he's been really poor now for a month or two.

I understand trying things when you're desperate to find some spark in the attacking third, but playing both Rashford and Bruno out of position to accommodate Weghorst (who you also play out of position) is insane.

Squad quality is a much bigger problem than ETHs management, but have to say he's been really poor for awhile now. He, like the team, need to get it together.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I actually think Antony's ineffectiveness is another contributing factor to our lack of goals. He's far too one dimensional, which has a knock on effect in our build ups and balls going into the box. So no matter who we play, there will always be inefficiency on the right, even if Bruno is occasionally deputized to go there (which isn't a natural role for him).

Yeah he's pretty much a non-factor when it comes to being productive. He doesn't create for others nor score enough.

 

[PepG]

I remember when as an Ajax coach Ten Hag said about Guardiola that in hist first season at City he did the mistake to underestimate the Premier League. I think Ten Hag did the opposite, especially after that Brentford debacle, he overestimated the opposition and became too pragmatic for his own good. His biggest failure so far is that he prioritized the results and not the performance in his first season as an United manager. Yesterdays performance was a terrible one.. i dont want to say it but so far Ten Hags time at United is very similar to LVGs time there as a manager and that is very disappointing.

 

[DSG]

Players skewing shots in front of goal is of course not his fault. Playing Wout Weghorst is absolutely on him. Insisting on a new contract for our abysmal overpaid keeper is also strictly on him. Pounding the desk and forcing an overpay for Antony (who's probably at best a mid table player) is no doubt on him.

I like ETH, but like the managers that have come before him, he seems to have blind spots to obvious issues that shouldn't be blind spots. This summer is absolutely crucial for him. Because if we line up next season for another year of Antony sending 5 shots a game over the bar and De Gea shitting himself anytime the ball is passed to him then the manager will be under real fecking pressure.

I agree with most of this except him being absolved of poor finishing. That’s a crock of shit. He absolutely does bear responsibility for poor finishing. He knows it. There can be an emphasis in training on finishing. At the end of the day, if we are not scoring goals, he bears some of the responsibility. He needs to instill better patterns of plat, engineer more quality chances, then the individual mistakes won’t matter as much.

 

[DSG]

I have a lot of time for ETH and still believe in him long-term, but he's been really poor now for a month or two.

I understand trying things when you're desperate to find some spark in the attacking third, but playing both Rashford and Bruno out of position to accommodate Weghorst (who you also play out of position) is insane.

Squad quality is a much bigger problem than ETHs management, but have to say he's been really poor for awhile now. He, like the team, need to get it together.

Agreed 100%

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I remember when as an Ajax coach Ten Hag said about Guardiola that in hist first season at City he did the mistake to underestimate the Premier League. I think Ten Hag did the opposite, especially after that Brentford debacle, he overestimated the opposition and became too pragmatic for his own good. His biggest failure so far is that he prioritized the results and not the performance in his first season as an United manager. Yesterdays performance was a terrible one.. i dont want to say it but so far Ten Hags time at United is very similar to LVGs time there as a manager and that is very disappointing.

Hard to argue against this.

I wish he didn't compromise as much.

 

[led_scholes]

Well, we have to consider that till we conceded we were actually missing chance after chance. The worrying thing is that any sub he did, failed to make an impact. However, does anyone expect an impact from Sabitzer, Martial and Sancho anymore? So I will give this against him: he should have used more youth and give chances to other players like Pellistri.

He has done quite well with Garnacho, but I don't see why he insists on players who are most likely going to leave like Sabitzer, Wout, Martial etc.

A big concern is also DDG. Of course on public the manager has to support the player, but if the manager believes that we should indeed renew his contract, the I m sorry but ETH will rightfully get sacked at one point next year.

 

[Borys]

Obviously in the end manager is responsible for the results, but feels a bit harsh to criticise him after yesterday. We should've been two goals up by the time they scored.

It's just mistakes /bad luck at both ends of the pitch. Not sure if he's to blame for that. We looked like we wouldn't score no matter what, a self fulfilling prophecy that turns out to be (away games).

Yes probably shouldn't have started Wout but even with him in the squad we were creating chances in the first half. Then we collapsed and that seems to be THE problem.

 

[avgp_1]

I remember when as an Ajax coach Ten Hag said about Guardiola that in hist first season at City he did the mistake to underestimate the Premier League. I think Ten Hag did the opposite, especially after that Brentford debacle, he overestimated the opposition and became too pragmatic for his own good. His biggest failure so far is that he prioritized the results and not the performance in his first season as an United manager. Yesterdays performance was a terrible one.. i dont want to say it but so far Ten Hags time at United is very similar to LVGs time there as a manager and that is very disappointing.

Yes its very similar to LVG's first season here. Result oriented performances and a clear difference in results between the home and away games

 

[Baneofthegame]

Just to preface I'm fully supportive of ETH still and would be even if we bottle top 4.

But, the decision to start Weghorst and persist with him for 50 minutes is baffling to me, he offered nothing whatsoever in the game and made it so we had 10 men at times, why against West Ham we didn't just set out with the same team vs Brighton + Eriksen - Fred I don't know.

Obviously he can't factor in Dave's mistake which basically turned the game on his head, ignited the crowd and suddenly changed West Ham's outlook.

 

[MadDogg]

We came into this season with a terribly coached team and a relatively small squad (in terms of players of any decent quality) that seemed mentally broken. We've then basically played two games a week, every week, all season while also having the World Cup in the middle.

That has resulted in two things. Players looking tired or getting injured, and also no real time for proper training and coaching to be done. When there is a match every three or four days the training has to be predominantly about recovery. In hindsight we may have been better off if we'd sacrificed two of the cups so we'd get a decent amount of time to rest and train, but considering we won one and in the final of another would we really have wanted to sacrifice them?

ETH has certainly made some mistakes, but he's also been in a very tough position.

 

[redshaw]

ETH has said Martial is a better player, problem is he's tried both plenty of times and both have failed him. Weghorst had a few good games early on where he was linking well with the midfield and helping to provide space for Rashford. Martial came in and we looked even better but got injured again. Weghorst is pretty much dead now, Martial is playing very tentatively, probably worried about getting injured. He keeps playing them in rotation and it's simply not working for either.

I'd prefer even Sabitzer in the Weghorst position, he has a good shot on him and can run faster, is not afraid of getting injured like Martial. Or play Bruno up there. Hopefully we can get Garnacho back very soon, he's been electric in tandem with Rashford

 

[Chaky_Best]

We all support Ten Hag, but we have to concede that even the great managers may have bad spell.

I think the issue of the team is fitness, as we always play well for 30 mins and then nothing. I think most of them are exhausted and can't really play every game, but thankfully we now play once a week (expect Chelsea).

Nevertheless, I think that some of his changes are strange. Bruno begins on the wing were he will not have to fight with Rice and Soucek where he would have less time on the ball and play more balls to Rashford. Issue we played mainly in their 40 and neither Bruno or Rashford have impacted the game.

Then the Wout case. West Ham are tough at set pieces. He can't trust the fridge to play so plays Wout for defensive purpose and plays him 10. Issue, they didnt had any corner, so having Wout was useless.

And Bruno, after having played left and middle played on the right.

I think that Ten Hag doesn't have much choices to rotate, influence his team with poor subs but he should do better with his vision that havinng Wout, Bruno and Martial as 10 in his games.

 

[Ted Lasso]

We signed Weghorst instead of Felix on loan because of the Glazers. Desperately in need of a forward why on earth would we not play Weghorst? Our forward crisis hasn't resolved overnight considering Martial still pulls up injured after 60 min when the going gets tough.

The Weghorst thing should be on the Glazers. We were playing McTominay up top prior out of necessity for fs sake

 

[Judas]

He's trying to be too clever and do too much lately. Why we're not just sticking to the basics I don't know. Play our best players when we can, and in their best position. Simple stuff but surely would make a difference.

Casemiro/Erikson isn't working either at this stage of the season, they look far too brittle and slow together.

 

[Suv666]

If we miss out on top 4 which looks possible now this season would be a failure. Liverpool have been horrid and them overtaking us would be embarrassing to say the least.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Who is they? I’d take any sort of win from here on.

The players.

I think we’d all take any sort of win but if it’s all down to fatigue then we should be seeing a better improvement in all aspects with a weeks rest, no?

Some results/performances have certainly been impacted by fixture congestion but yesterday in particular was just shite, a goalkeeping howler followed up by lacklustre performances all over the pitch.

 

[kouroux]

It would be a no brainer to bench Wout if Martial was contributing. Unfortunately, he isn't and also doesn't do much pressing when needed.

It's still a no brainer to bench Wout. He brings litteraly nothing and even less so when he plays as a 10

 

[MUFC OK]

Blind faith.

 

[kunal18]

Its been quite obvious that we are lacking goalscorers in the team.
Rashford aside, we are clueless as to where the goals are coming from.
Our forwards arent creative enough or goalscorers Antony,Sancho,Martial,Weghorst dont score enough.

 

[redNATION]

Problem is when you have 7-0 at anfield on your record you absolutely need to finish in the top 4 and above the scouse. Anything less than that and he should be in very thin ice. It’s gotten to the point that the away record can’t just be in the players, it’s the way he’s setting up and especially in second halves.