Because our schedule is brutal and we’re starting to really feel it.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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True but that would have been perfectly fine with that team. Maguire Lindelof and Mctominay and Fred. He had no right to get top 4 twice really given how average that spine was.
Didn't we all say at the start of the season that we'd expect to fall off? It's a consequence of playing more games than anybody else, it's a consequence of just playing 120 mins a few days ago, it's a consequence of having a mediocre squad mixed with some concentrated key injuries.. it's not just physical fatigue, it's mental fatigue. We haven't had a midweek break since August. That is an entire season of recovery training rather than normal match prep. We all knew our squad can't handle that, yet we've done a very good job with the schedule regardless. It was always going to be a grind to get it done.
Lots of talk about our attack in here, imo it’s the midfield that fecks us over. Eriksen is great at what he does, but he’s not fast or strong. With Bruno as our third «midfielder» I think we‘ll be too lightweight unless we get in someone like Frenkie. Bruno doesn’t really know how to play a smart possession game in that forward position.
Yeah, so even you didn't think they would comfortably be in the top four, so the fact that they are, cancels out our supposed luck of Liverpool and Chelsea not being there. I don't actually believe that because I think this logic is absolute nonsense, but going by your logic, this must be true.
And if Chelsea and Liverpool were on song, then guess what? it would no longer be this season, would it? You can't just change one parameter of this counterfactual and ignore the knock-on effects. Perhaps they would have taken more points off City and Arsenal so we would all be closer together.
Maybe Spurs and Newcastle would both drop out of the top-four race because of this. Therefore, Liverpool and Chelsea are just replacing Newcastle and Spurs, so it's the same number of teams competing for the top four.
That's the trouble with dealing with counterfactuals. You can twist it any way you want to suit an agenda.
Also, I don't think there's a single person on this forum that would disagree that we still have work to do. Not one.
Totally agree. It's simply impossible to keep the required level of intensity the whole match after a long gruesome season especially in away matches. We were able to keep that level of intensity the whole match but now agree we are starting to feel it.
Anyway ETH should learn from SAF imo. SAF was good at many things and one thing was to see the match out once we got a lead with the minimum energy spent. That helped our campaigns massively imo.
People criticizing his subs are weird as feck when you consider that no team in the league has scored more goals from their subs this season. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Most times it has worked. Nothing is 100% but Ten Hags proven himself to be very good with his subs.
I’m happy with the cup win, happy with the league position, happy with how the season has gone. But even with all that it’s is funny seeing people unwilling to accept our football has been tumescent for a month or so, not controlling games, scraping wins, leaving leads slip, It’s probably down to fatigue, but it’s still happening and is hard to watch. And the manager should take some responsibility in that, it doesn’t mean he needs to be sacked, that’s silly, but hopefully learn that we can’t go for everything again next year, wait untill we have a better coached and bigger, quality squad. Please.
I think it's very clear that we've had to grind out results for a while now and it's pretty clear that it is because of fixture pile up and injuries/lack of depth .. we haven't had a midweek break since August. We play in spurts, 30 min periods of very good football and then revert to the grinding type, but it's easy to see why.
But he'd clearly be better on the ball which is also a form of defending. When Wout is as bad as he is, it's monumental mistake to keep playing him.
I feel like Weggy has had one good game for us, and it was more like a half if that? When he played as a number 10 against Leeds away. Unless I’m woefully wrong. Struggling to think of any others really.
Recency bias is obviously a factor.
Sevilla home leg and last night I didn't quite see the logic. We lost 2-0 leads in both games too so he didn't impact the game positively for us
Oh yeah it happens, no manager can get it spot on every time. You see the logic but it doesn't work out always. Some posters are saying shit like they've regularly been shit or he doesn't know how to influence games is nonsense though, and the stats back that up.
He was very good away against Barca
Because we've exceeded all expectations. The only reason people feel disapointed is because we've tapered off after the Carling Cup final. If we went to the start of the season, and made a poll saying that will you take finishing Top4, winning the League cup and reaching the FA cup final... I assure you 99% would say yes.
The reason people think this season is a disaster is because the expectations are based on our current form, not the start of season form/squad. The fact that ETH managed to do what he did so far, is pretty impressive considering where we were just 12 months ago.
As far as previous managers go: LVG inherited SAF's title winning squad strengthened with Mata. Mourinho receieved a possession based team, and did a typical Mourinho thing, brought in "his players".
The reason I mentioned Ole and not the other 2, is that even in our lowest of the low there was still discipline and the notion that we are a football club. Under Ole, all that went to hell replaced with good vibes, favoritism and worst of all: trying to appease the players and egos who were fastly going out of control.
So far Ten Hag undid all the damage did in the first half of the season. Provided he is backed in the summer, I expect us to go up a level. Can he do better? With the current resources he has, I don't think so. I geniunely think that our squad is gassed as of right now, and we will slowly limp over the finish line.
The players were tired and didn't have the legs in 2nd half vs Spurs. The key players are playing too many games.
We don't have the squad to compete in 4 competitions. For now we need to quickly secure Top 4 and rest the players in time for FA Cup final.
Nevertheless, it has been a brilliant season given we were absolutely destroyed by Ole, Rangnick and Ronaldo.
We don't have the squad to compete in 4 competitions. For now we need to quickly secure Top 4 and rest the players in time for FA Cup final.
Nevertheless, it has been a brilliant season given we were absolutely destroyed by Ole, Rangnick and Ronaldo.
West Ham home in FA Cup. His best game for us IMO. Still not effective enough. Rashford, Garnacho, Casemiro, Martinez, Varane were required to come on to the rescue.
That was big myth.
Playing as no 10, he had the least touches and least passes. Second passing completion just above DDG who kicked hopeful long ball. Visibly losing many aerial ball to shorter players. Didn't create nothing. Missed the clearest chance of the game. He just looked busy running around. Just like against Tottenham, where he looked busy harassing Skip, but failed to prevent him to pass the ball forward, which started the sequence of our second conceded goal.
Yeah, agree with this after blaming ETH straight after the game. Still don't think he should have brought Sancho off, who was doing decent defensive work for a change and could do with a few more full games to build up his confidence. The Fred sub looked obvious, but it's always a gamble because you either get a prime left footed Kante or the Fred who plays like he's had no sleep for two days and just downed a bottle of Cachaça.
We've hit a wall recently and I'm more inclined to blame our crazy schedule, horrible injury situation, lack of squad depth and bad refereeing over the past few months than Ten Hag. There have been plenty of games where even if we've won, they've been closer than they should have been due to either terrible decisions against us or a cumulation of every 50/50 going against us.
ETH does have some credit in the bank, but if he's backed this summer and we see the same issues this time next year then he probably will need replacing. One season is definitely not enough time to judge a manager unless they're very clearly out of their depth.
Sancho was finished after the first half. He looked gassed. He doesnt have the tempo and really struggles as the games go. With that and the fact thats he's fading and hiding from challenges, it was absolutely the correct call. ETH doesnt trust him, and rightly so. One goal doesnt change anything
Against Sevilla, Sabitzer started and played 67 minutes. He made 11 passes in that time.
He is better on the ball than Wout, but he doesn't get on the ball. Their defensive effort is similar I'd say.
I don't see a solution to that situation but let's agree to disagree.
I think we see the mentality problem in the squad reflected in this forum. Some posters just have an incredibly weak mentality.
And Wout has been shit in 90% of the games he played in, big deal. There ain't no way you're gonna make me swallow that Wout was a better option to protect the team or whatever else
I'm not trying to convince you to this option. I am explaining why I believe they are all in the same bucket. Sabitzer didn't help against Sevilla to get any control over the game. Elanga and Pellistri are runners at best. Neither option is "clearly" better is all I'm saying, because I don't think ETH made any mistakes in that game. He is out of options, especially if players like Casemiro and Fred let him down like that.
For me, Wout is clearly the worst possible option which we all have seen several times. None of his introductions in previous games have served any purpose whether we wanted to attack or defend. There isn't a single thing Wout would have been able to help us with
The way I see ETH right now - if we finish top-4, the season will have been a success since we also picked up a trophy - regardless what happens in the FA Cup Final. And the match against Liverpool can be forgotten.
If we somehow manage to mess up top-4 - which isn't unlikely considering Liverpool are big favourites to win all their remaining games - then the season will end up as a major disaster considering the advantage we had. If we can lose a 12 point lead to Liverpool with 8 games to go, in addition to losing 0-7 to them - then I would consider his first season mediocre at best and I would consider his position to be - not great.
This might seem harsh - but I just cant forgive the 0-7 defeat if his team also lose out on top-4.
If we somehow manage to mess up top-4 - which isn't unlikely considering Liverpool are big favourites to win all their remaining games - then the season will end up as a major disaster considering the advantage we had. If we can lose a 12 point lead to Liverpool with 8 games to go, in addition to losing 0-7 to them - then I would consider his first season mediocre at best and I would consider his position to be - not great.
This might seem harsh - but I just cant forgive the 0-7 defeat if his team also lose out on top-4.
This is all spot on, good post. Deserves a like I would think mods or scouts?
I agree with a majority of what was said in this post as it applies context to each individual situation we have gone through with each regime change the last 10 years.
The main issue I think some people have with undue criticism of Ten is expectations. In your summary of our season you hit the nail on the head when you asked what we would have took at the start. After and during games where we could/should have won disappointment is understandable, but there’s not context applied in most debates. In seasons past we may have crumbled by now with the injuries and other drama the club has had to deal with.
It’s easy to comment with hindsight and I wonder do those people consistently hold said views? With the games left I hope we can find a way to adapt to a testing situation like we have on numerous occasions this campaign and build for next.
Smarter today with the lineup, allowing him to bring quality off the bench.
His insistence on going five at the back is infuriating. Message sent to the opposition to say come and attack us.
Really unimpressed with the football we play, would have thought it would be far better by now.
We have had a lot of challenges this season, and he can't work magic but it is quite poor.
The United job is damn hard.
We have had a lot of challenges this season, and he can't work magic but it is quite poor.
The United job is damn hard.
Job done I think, top 4 pretty much secured. Let's kick on a bit more next year.
Yep, I know it is easy to hate Rangnick.gocen the way he conducted himself but the basic premise of what he was saying was correct, there is a mentally weak set of players and some who are technically not capable of doing what is asked of them.
A big rest is needed for some of these and some new bodies as well.
Getting annoyed that ,supposedly, lower technical players are passing the ball around us ,quite comfortably so too.
United don't have a proper CF of a reliable quality, Eriksen is a tidy player but not fit for total purpose, missing their first choice CB pairing.
Plus, it is the business end of the season where points aren't going to be easy and resolve rather champagne football is more important. Just ask Arsenal who cannot compromise and have suffered greatly from it.
So that's top four pretty much secured. Good stuff.
He needs a genuine goalscorer, proper pace in the team and another midfielder who can keep posssession.
Too slow in good positions and too goal shy when the chances do fall to us. Genuine pace and a goalscorer today and we win that 3-0
Too slow in good positions and too goal shy when the chances do fall to us. Genuine pace and a goalscorer today and we win that 3-0
Yeah, there have been some obvious challenges.
Martinez and Varane out injured doesnt help at all, and we have no solid CF.
Yet still, seems like the season can't end soon enough. Arsenal still play some good football I think btw.
The man is playing with a weak hand but still getting the results.
Thank fukk we’re out of the Europa League.
Thank fukk we’re out of the Europa League.
Lots of justified criticism but the man has shown himself to be a pragmatist over and over again. He's got a trophy and the results thus far to show for that. I don't mind it as long as he follows through with it in the summer and next season.
Also this.
Also this.
They have been coaches in the same system for nearly 4 years, they better play some good stuff.
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