Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Bilbo said:
Dammit. I was all pleased about winning a trophy as well, only to find out it doesn't count. Thanks a lot!
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How old are you ? When did I say it doesn't count ?
Globule said:
Does the context of missing key players, having played more games and having just played 120 minutes in a cup semi count too?
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Of course it does.
Red4Ever said:
we were comfortable as can be in the final
You can only beat who’s there
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I just said we weren't great, nothing else.

Borys said:
What was the alternative which was "clearly" the better option? Let's assume Antony needed to go off (as he rarely plays more than 70' anyway).


And do what exactly? We had no control over the game, leaky in midfield and weak on the wings. My understanding was that WW was supposed to play a bit deeper to help in midfield and Rashford/Martial could make runs from the wings. How is Elanga or Pellistri a better option?
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Simply Sabitzer/Pellestri and even Elanga. Wout is the worst player in the team. You play the worst player in the team, you cannot expect good things. I'd never ever shift Bruno to accomodate a player as bad as that. Antony needed to go out ? Just replace him with a winger ? More help was needed in the middle, play Sabitzer, not an ideal but a damn sight better than Wout. That substitution did feck all, it had no effect
 
El Jefe said:
I'm very much pro Erik but the concerns are valid right now.

I really do question how much of the improvement of the team is based on just having better performing players.

Casemiro and Rashford have been the real game changers this season and anytime they are out of form or unavailable we don't look good.

Don't get me wrong there have certainly been improvements but if Ole's teams had the Casemiro we had for most of the season there wouldn't be much of a difference in the end results.

Erik's team is obviously on a journey and this is just his first year so I'm hopeful he'll make the right decisions to see us improve considerably from next season.
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That's it for me as well. Casemiro was dominant in CM for much of the season and Rashford was particularly prolific in spells. Martinez has been very assured at the back as well. Take those players out, or their form, and we're not looking that much different to what we've seen throughout the last few years. We've had some good displays, we've had some utterly abysmal ones. The early gains we saw in terms of mentality and fighting spirit seem to have gone out the window. It's an all too familiar pattern.

I'm still behind ETH and believe he's the right man for the job, but there's a lot more work that needs to be done. A more comprehensive transformation of the club has been needed for a long time, the buck doesn't stop with the manager and it never has. Unfortunately that requires funds and a willingness from the top to do it. It's his first season in the job and things were never going to change overnight. Hopefully it will be a summer of upheaval, but we've been hoping for that for a long, long time.
 
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kouroux said:
The context of the Carabao Cup win has to be considered (basically easy games until the final in which we weren't great).
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No it doesn’t. We have gone six years without a trophy. SIX! More than half a decade. The fact that we finally broke that loser mentality is absolutely fantastic and I couldn’t care less what the ‘context’ was. If this was ETHs third year maybe I’d be that entitled. For him to come in and break that shocking streak of being consistently trophyless gets no high horse-ness from me.
 
People are on a bit of a roll with criticising him for any moment or result that doesn't go as optimally as it possibly could. That doesn't mean he's above criticism, but he's been here less than a year. It's his first time working in the PL. He's going to make substitutions we don't agree with or that go against what we'd like to see. Still, we are basically nailed on for top 4, we've won a trophy, we're in the final for another trophy, and we play much more exciting and interesting football. It's good man.
 
tenpoless said:
If Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Napoli, Shanghai Shenhua and AlNassr were playing in the Premier League we have no chance in getting top 4.
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Nonsense argument.

You know exactly what I meant. We aren't as good as some people on here think we are. We have massively benefited from a slump from Liverpool this season. Without that we'd be touch and go to even finish top 4.

Truth is we aren't much better than we have been contrary to belief on here. The improvement has been marginal.
 
thegregster said:
I supported Ole and other managers to the bitter end. Unlike most on here. They are the ones who deserve nothing. Throwing Ole under the bus for a flavour of the month manager and a squad who will never ever get close to the big trophies.
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:lol: Oh dear
 
tenpoless said:
If Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Napoli, Shanghai Shenhua and AlNassr were playing in the Premier League we have no chance in getting top 4.
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If John Terry and Bayern knew how to take chances SAF would have no CLs. Oh no!
 
ClassOf'99 said:
I hope some in here have a little read upon reflection of EtH this season:

- Inherited the team that got Ole sacked and refused/disliked working with Wreck-It Ralf.

- Had to deal with a non-compliant Ronaldo.

- Had to learn all the players and what they're capable of

- Old Trafford returned to a fortress this season (29 games, 2 losses, wins against 5/6 of the top teams)

- Was given no real support in January despite only having Rashford & Antony as regular attacking options and no actual striker

- Has been dealt so dubious fixtures, refereeing results & injuries off the back of it

- Has had to work with a paper thin squad and some how paper over the cracks while bringing this squad through 60+ games (losing Case, Martinez, Rashford, Garnacho, Varane etc)

- Has one 1 trophy, is in another final and still 6 points clear of 5th with 2 games in hand

Yes the results are starting to falter now but come on, we knew about this squad, we've seen how mentally weak they've been in the last 2 seasons, and it was nowhere near ready to be playing a game every 4 days but the man deserves some credit for how far he's brought us and some serious backing in the summer.

Edit: I'm sure I've missed even bigger things too like beating a top of the League Barcelona, the man deserves our backing and anything to contrary has to be agenda driven as upon reflection of our season we'd of snatched your hand off at this.
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I wholeheartedly agree with all this, plus I'd add his coaching and overall squad management has been excellent; whether it be restoring Rashford's confidence, getting a tune from Dalot, AWB and Fred, dropping Maguire, even getting DeGea to use his feet. He's shown us the light at the end of the tunnel. Criticism of him, no matter how well meaning, is laughably premature.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
No it doesn’t. We have gone six years without a trophy. SIX! More than half a decade. The fact that we finally broke that loser mentality is absolutely fantastic and I couldn’t care less what the ‘context’ was. If this was ETHs third year maybe I’d be that entitled. For him to come in and break that shocking streak of being consistently trophyless gets no high horse-ness from me.
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It does for me because that will not taint the joy of having won the trophy one bit. I can separate the 2 things easily
 
dove said:
So much overreaction here as usual. Before the start of the season most of us agreed that TOP 4 + a trophy would be a good season for us. We are well on track for that (with maybe even 2 trophies if we get some luck, you never know).
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More than a good season. Most United fans had us finishing outside the top four and winning nothing. After the first two games I'm sure most were saying we would be closer to relegation than top four.
 
kouroux said:
It does for me because that will not taint the joy of having won the trophy one bit. I can separate the 2 things easily
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It clearly seems to have tainted the joy given your posts show absolutely none towards it or the manager who got it done.

We just came off our lowest PL points tally. So yeah I’ll gladly take a slightly easier run in any competition. It’s not our fault City and company weren’t good enough.
 
To not beat a single top 12 team away from home is poor.

His subs haven't been great.

The amount of goals we have scored a a team is poor.

He's done enough to get a second season without a doubt but I'm getting slightly annoyed at our inability to control games. We shouldn't be struggling to get over the line in every single game yet we seem to always be in that position. Can't honestly remember too many routine wins this season.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
To not beat a single top 12 team away from home is poor.

His subs haven't been great.

The amount of goals we have scored a a team is poor.

He's done enough to get a second season without a doubt but I'm getting slightly annoyed at our inability to control games. We shouldn't be struggling to get over the line in every single game yet we seem to always be in that position. Can't honestly remember too many routine wins this season.
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But if we hadn’t done that we’d be higher.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
To not beat a single top 12 team away from home is poor.

His subs haven't been great.

The amount of goals we have scored a a team is poor.

He's done enough to get a second season without a doubt but I'm getting slightly annoyed at our inability to control games. We shouldn't be struggling to get over the line in every single game yet we seem to always be in that position. Can't honestly remember too many routine wins this season.
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Glad you weren't around for the Ole era, you wouldn't have enjoyed it one bit... oh wait...
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Nonsense argument given everyone predicted Liverpool to be in there in August. Wolves aren't a contender.
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But very, very few people (if any) predicted Newcastle to be comfortably in the top four, so I guess we're unlucky on that front then? So I guess that cancels out our good luck when it comes to Chelsea and Liverpool having good seasons...if I'm following this flawless logic correctly.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
It clearly seems to have tainted the joy given your posts show absolutely none towards it or the manager who got it done.

We just came off our lowest PL points tally. So yeah I’ll gladly take a slightly easier run in any competition. It’s not our fault City and company weren’t good enough.
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More like you're overanalyzing what should be my levels of appreciation for a cup that was won 2 months ago. I find it strange.
 
kouroux said:
More like you're overanalyzing what should be my levels of appreciation for a cup that was won 2 months ago. I find it strange.
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Alright mate. Now stop creating such a big lead over of me in the post count list :lol:
 
It’s perfectly normal to substitute more senior players on the hour and we shouldn’t push Erikson, but it all depends on replacing like for like. Unfortunately Fred isn’t the answer.
 
b82REZ said:
I don't think you're best placed to call out nonsense arguments.
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Why is that? Using Wolves alongside Liverpool is absolutely ridiculous.

Everyone on here thought they'd be competing for the title again let alone finishing 4th.

We have made improvements as I have said but they really haven't been as big as some on here think. Others falling off has helped us a lot.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Why is that? Using Wolves alongside Liverpool is absolutely ridiculous.

Everyone on here thought they'd be competing for the title again let alone finishing 4th.

We have made improvements as I have said but they really haven't been as big as some on here think. Others falling off has helped us a lot.
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But other teams will always "fall off". Show me a season where all the big teams were flying at their best? It doesn't happen, spoiler; it won't next season either.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Why is that? Using Wolves alongside Liverpool is absolutely ridiculous.

Everyone on here thought they'd be competing for the title again let alone finishing 4th.

We have made improvements as I have said but they really haven't been as big as some on here think. Others falling off has helped us a lot.
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So using your spurious reasoning, we've over performed and EtH is doing an exceptional job because most predicted we'd finish 6-8th with no silverware.

You definitely didn't accept the excuse of traditionally stronger teams being weaker having an impact on where we finished under Ole; what's changed?
 
BusbyMalone said:
But very, very few people (if any) predicted Newcastle to be comfortably in the top four, so I guess we're unlucky on that front then? So I guess that cancels out our good luck when it comes to Chelsea and Liverpool having good seasons...if I'm following this flawless logic correctly.
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Newcastle gave spent about 250m in 18 months. I fully expected them to improve. Fair enough I didn't think they'd be 3rd place in April but then being up here isn't that shocking.

We have lots of work still to do.
 
b82REZ said:
So using your spurious reasoning, we've over performed and EtH is doing an exceptional job because most predicted we'd finish 6-8th with no silverware.

You definitely didn't accept the excuse of traditionally stronger teams being weaker having an impact on where we finished under Ole; what's changed?
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He's doing a decent job so far.
 
@El Jefe

Why did you forget Martinez?

Varane maybe not always available but he has been more than just good too.

Shaw has had a good season.

What about Bruno Fernándes?

Its clear we need a striker and our attack is very one dimensional - once that sorts out then Rashford being our only stand out attacker is gone.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Newcastle gave spent about 250m in 18 months. I fully expected them to improve. Fair enough I didn't think they'd be 3rd place in April but then being up here isn't that shocking.

We have lots of work still to do.
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I don't recall many expecting Arsenal to be as strong as they have been this season either. Are we unlucky because of that? Your logic just seems strange on this one.

No doubt there is still a lot of work to be done to make us a proper team again. That can't all be done in one season. Or two for that matter.
 
ClassOf'99 said:
I hope some in here have a little read upon reflection of EtH this season:

- Inherited the team that got Ole sacked and refused/disliked working with Wreck-It Ralf.

- Had to deal with a non-compliant Ronaldo.

- Had to learn all the players and what they're capable of

- Old Trafford returned to a fortress this season (29 games, 2 losses, wins against 5/6 of the top teams)

- Was given no real support in January despite only having Rashford & Antony as regular attacking options and no actual striker

- Has been dealt so dubious fixtures, refereeing results & injuries off the back of it

- Has had to work with a paper thin squad and some how paper over the cracks while bringing this squad through 60+ games (losing Case, Martinez, Rashford, Garnacho, Varane etc)

- Has one 1 trophy, is in another final and still 6 points clear of 5th with 2 games in hand

Yes the results are starting to falter now but come on, we knew about this squad, we've seen how mentally weak they've been in the last 2 seasons, and it was nowhere near ready to be playing a game every 4 days but the man deserves some credit for how far he's brought us and some serious backing in the summer.

Edit: I'm sure I've missed even bigger things too like beating a top of the League Barcelona, the man deserves our backing and anything to contrary has to be agenda driven as upon reflection of our season we'd of snatched your hand off at this.
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you won’t last long here with that kind of attitude.
 
b82REZ said:
And my second point?
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What...about Ole?

Yeah that was true that season too when everyone dropped off. Of course it's the same.

He didn't have Casemiro, Martinez and Varane for very long thought tbf.

Ole came 2nd with Maguire Lindelof and Mcfred. Absolute masterclass. Hahaha
 
Doing a sterling job.Having to be relying on the likes of Fred and Martial would cripple anyone.Roll on next season.
 
Get us top 4 and I'll be happy enough, but these past couple of months have been a bit of a reality check of just how far behind we still are. While City have improved a lot in the business end of the season, we've faltered (yet again). Plenty of changes still needed in this squad.

I worry about the FA cup final. I can handle a loss in a close game, but if we play like this it'll be a massacre.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
What...about Ole?

Yeah that was true that season too when everyone dropped off. Of course it's the same.

He didn't have Casemiro, Martinez and Varane for very long thought tbf.

Ole came 2nd with Maguire Lindelof and Mcfred. Absolute masterclass. Hahaha
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Yeah but if Liverpool and Chelsea had been better we’d have been 4th.
 
kouroux said:
Simply Sabitzer/Pellestri and even Elanga. Wout is the worst player in the team. You play the worst player in the team, you cannot expect good things. I'd never ever shift Bruno to accomodate a player as bad as that. Antony needed to go out ? Just replace him with a winger ? More help was needed in the middle, play Sabitzer, not an ideal but a damn sight better than Wout. That substitution did feck all, it had no effect
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Sabitzer and Wout have the same effect when we don't have the ball. They just run. Sabitzer played against Sevilla away and we got overrun in midfield 3-0. He's as involved in any midfield actions as Wout.

Pellistri and Elanga, yeah that is an option. But all things considered I definitely don't see Wout vs anyone else of Sabitzer, Pellistri, Elanga is a "clear" mistake.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
Get us top 4 and I'll be happy enough, but these past couple of months have been a bit of a reality check of just how far behind we still are. While City have improved a lot in the business end of the season, we've faltered (yet again). Plenty of changes still needed in this squad.

I worry about the FA cup final. I can handle a loss in a close game, but if we play like this it'll be a massacre.
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Same as where I am.

He's done enough to hopefully get backed this summer but like you I'm slightly concerned about how we just fall off in games all the time.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
Get us top 4 and I'll be happy enough, but these past couple of months have been a bit of a reality check of just how far behind we still are. While City have improved a lot in the business end of the season, we've faltered (yet again). Plenty of changes still needed in this squad.

I worry about the FA cup final. I can handle a loss in a close game, but if we play like this it'll be a massacre.
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Agree. We’ve seen how much squad depth matters recently.

If we bring on a more like for like replacement for Eriksen yesterday I feel that game would have ended differently.
 
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