No we aren't we didn't replace Ronaldo because we spent plenty in the summer and aren't exactly swimming in cash nothing to do with FFP.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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We have a few positions to address, and the positions that we have to address tend to be very expensive. He's not going to say he's going to replace de Gea when we don't have the funds to do so. A striker is over 100m. We need a backup DM and we would still prioritize Frenkie or a Frenkie type of we could to partner Casemiro. Also 70m+. The reason we will keep de Gea another year is simply because we don't have the money to address every issue.
Ten Hag is versatile and will accomodate to his squad to be successful as he clearly has, successfully. But he clearly likes playing out from the back, but we don't have a midfielder capable of receiving the ball under pressure nor do we have a goalkeeper capable of playing out from the back and hitting those diaganals accurately. So we go longer more often. Except we have no striker in any capacity basically. Martial is capable of receiving under pressure or dealing with high balls, yet he's never available. Weghorst is only useful for work rate, useless in the air. We have no DM in our squad when Casemiro is out. We don't have a reliable passer when Eriksen is out, and yet, all season it was built on that partnership where we would build up between Eriksen dropping deep to play those line breaking passes more consistently.
We're just missing very key positions right now, no passer in midfield, no DM, no striker. Is it really a surprise that we are struggling for now?
Succeeding in the cups while achieving your league targets is literally a very good measure of progress and something we haven't managed to do in over a decade. Stop down playing it.
Yes we are. Lots of well respected journalists are reporting that no matter who our new owners are we will have to shift a lot of players this summer to be able to spend a considerable amount of money.
In summers where we spend 250m we don't tend to spend that amount the following year. Have you noticed the pattern?
We need some of Ibra’s energy.
Football has changed. Tiki Taka is all about possesion and low risk passing. Nowadays turnovers are important and getting forward quickly with more risky passes.
TikiTaka does have high pressing, but without the emphasis on forcing turnovers for quick transitions. Controlling possession, or I should say, avoiding turnovers is what it is about.
I‘m happy to blame the manager if the players give 100% on the field. Until then, it‘s the players. They played like limp dicks on Sunday.
A lot of the talk in the summer was that if Ronaldo had left we would have had enough to sign someone like Gakpo. The Saudi club he eventually joined offered about £12m supposedly, and would have taken his full wages off the books. Unfortunately for us he was holding out for a UCL club. There wouldn't have been enough for a big move, but we'd have been better off if he'd left then rather than basically forcing us to sack him with that Piers Morgan interview.
Gakpo has been a bit hit and miss at Liverpool, but he'd make more sense than Wout, who we wouldn't have signed in this scenario, and he'd have joined in the summer with a bit of pre-season behind him.
So you answered my question already, you can't afford to "no point discussing" because you have to keep on defending the players, just as I guess.
ETH has only been here for less than a year, and how long have the core of our players been here? Six years without a single trophy?
When I see the players (who have been losers for years) actually try but still fail, then I will look at the manager, who has been here less than 1 year.
But when I see the same player down tools for the manager again and again, I refuse to criticize the manager. Guess who already makes excuses about player's motivation, like Wout making other players not want to try? They are player not manager, and their job as a Man UTD player, is always try to play their best.
As I've said again and again, managers will always lose against our player's PR power. Just look at your posts in this thread and people can see. What's the motivation behind defending our player's lack of effort? I can only guess one thing.
So now you see my stance, can you actually do the "no point discussing" as you said, or do you still feel compelled to reply like it's your job?
Exactly.
Yes, the issue is the new FFP rules that limit expenditure to 80% of the clubs turnover. We're already there.
Even Murtough indicated the Antony money came from next summer's budget.
That's not right. It's 90% starting June. Then 80% the following year. Then finally 70% in 2025/26
I'm still fully behind ETH but when he first came he wasn't afraid to drop players who weren't performing , whereas recently he seems to be picking the same players despite their lack of productivity (Wout, Bruno). I get that injuries are playing a part in this so I'm cutting him some slack, but he needs to keep the mindset in the squad that poor performances just wont cut it any more.
Looking ahead to the Summer, if we don't get in another good player to fill Casemiro's boots when he's unavailable and a top striker then that will be unforgivable.
Looking ahead to the Summer, if we don't get in another good player to fill Casemiro's boots when he's unavailable and a top striker then that will be unforgivable.
Well, I'm happy you admit to your irrationality at least. It's a good start.
Managers should be judged on selection, tactics and in-game management while players are judged on individual performances. If you can't bring yourself to criticise Ten Hag at all for the tactics, selection & subs that we saw, irrespective of the individual performances of players (which you can of course also criticise), then you very clearly have a blind spot. By your "logic" you could always blame players for not giving "100% on the field", whatever that impossible to measure number means, and so never hold the manager accountable for anything.
Since you're open about your irrationality though, there's plenty of scope to work and improve on that. Good luck.
If we have a few positions that need addressing, then we shouldn’t buy a midfielder for 70+ and a striker for over 100 million. You can scout players that play those positions but don’t cost as much.
If he actually gives De Gea a new deal, he’s not serious about replacing him.
I agree that Ten Hag has done well this season, but we’re at a point of the season where a lot of the good work can be undone if he’s not careful.
I'm 100% convinced he will sort out the midfield issues and structure. If he sticks to his words. We need better midfielders
If we sort out our midfield structure we will be a different animal completely. Then add a lethal striker, we can consistently win over 25 games in the league without much fuss.
He just needs to be ruthless in that midfield reorganization.
The problem is that some positions are only worth spending big on. Otherwise you are gambling. Hell even someone like Darwin went for 100m. We are in a position where we simply need a top player up top, no if ands or buts. You get stuck in a loop of wasting 30m on completely unproven punts. It's better to just spend on a cert for some positions, and striker is definitely one. There aren't many quality ones available. We need one.
It's not that we need many positions addressing. They're just expensive. We have a good squad. We don't have enough game changers though. We need a top striker who can propel us to the top level. The rest can be system players where we need smarter scouting. But up top, we definitely just need an elite player.
Again. I don't rate de Gea much anymore. But given we have an unknown budget, you look at what improves you the most. A top striker makes the biggest difference to us, and then address de Gea next year. That's just a logical thing to do. Not everything can be addressed in one window, but you also don't want stop gaps that you keep addressing every summer as they're never good enough.
ETH chose to bring in WW - his mate, from same town in Holland.
If you believe that WW is literally the best CF in World football that was willing to come to Manchester United on loan for a season, then fair enough - however I do not believe that, and I think it’s important to remember that ETH chose him.
Likewise, ETH chooses to play him every match, rather than playing a younger talent like Garnacho and / or packing the midfield and playing a false 9.
He needs to be given the opportunity to build his own team before people write him off. Yeah we've been very poor since the league cup win but we have a small squad with no top striker and thin midfield options, plus the squad is still mainly made up of Ole's players.
I like what Ten Hag has done here but we don't need another Ole situation here when his apologists were making him immune to any sort of criticism till the forum became unbearable. Ten Hag has done very well here and better than previous managers but he's not a god. He made, makes and will make mistakes.
Ferguson himself had plenty of tactical mistakes that costed United games and he's the best manager in history. These are humen, not gods. Mistakes happen.
Ten Hag had make a lot of questionable decisions lately and our form away from him needs massive improvement. That doesn't deny the progress he has made here in comparison to the toxic last year, but this is the perfect time to point out the team's problems so that he can solve them before next season.
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Agree with this post, ETH has earnt a lot of credit but also making some clear mistakes. Weghurst a disaster zone and should never be starting, I would question even what he brings even from the bench given he is utterly useless in the air. We need to adapt in midfield, Martinez needs to be considered as McT is never a starter for next couple of matches. Also yet to see what Sabitzer brings, he seems to just disappear for long periods. Some innovative thinking and improving squad players is somethign we can reasonably expect from him
I'm sure it's been posted before but didn't he try that at Ajax and conclude he doesn't have the legs to play there?
Dont know, but maybe sit him in front of a back 3 or indeed jsut play him in a back 3. I'm not a great tactician, this is where ETH needs to earn his salary, but it was clear in the Fulham and Newcastle matches that we are way too open and teams can cut through us. Also that McT is not the answer and Weghurst is a black hole of waste.
Yeah ten hag chose to bring in wout on loan for half a season as we didn't have the budget to do anything normal. Who was available? People will bring up Joao Felix while ignoring the fact that he's never actually been a striker. It was a punt, Weghorst had a decent world cup, fair enough. Didn't pan out as we hoped, had some useful games but also has played far more than we hoped he would.
Ten Hag chooses to play him, because Garnacho is injured and is an 18 year old, because Rashford is a LW anyway, because Sancho goes hiding most times he plays and is often absent anyway, because Martial is always injured, because Antony is often injured. I don't like seeing Weghorst and I'd rather us just stick Rashford top, but it's not like we then have impressive players out wide or have even had good availability to be able to pick somebody else. Once Martial gets fit, he'll start. Simple as that. It's easy to say "play a false 9", but in reality, very few managers ever actually use one. Nor do we have someone capable of it. We tried it with Eriksen on the opening day. Antony if anything would be the only one in our squad capable of the role. Never understood people trying to put Bruno as one, there are few roles he is less suited for.
I am not saying ETH is immune to criticism. I have plenty myself. I just don't see the point of attacking him at this point, when he's just here for less than 1 year, while our player is here forever.
But the point is, his mistake can not be the excuse for our player's lack of effort. It's not their job to managing the team, their job is to always try hardest in the field, especially considering they are not that talented to be lazy.
You said it yourself, SAF mades plenty of tactical mistake, and imagine if Rooney or Ronaldo decided to down tool due to that?
I don't want another Ole, Mourinho and for me, the only way moving forward and help ETH (or any other manager) to "solve them" is to hold our players's responsibility. If they can down tool at will no manager can fix that. As you can see in this thread, we have "fan" who try to use his team selection to excuse for our player's lack of effort on Sunday.
Not to mention the manager's position itself is vulnerable. If result is bad he will be gone just like all other manager post SAF. But the "player" will still be here and even (maybe) getting raise.
It's honestly not the time to attack him. Please look at the elephant in the room.
So player's effort is "impossible to measure" but manager's "selection, tactics and in-game management" is not? You got some "measurable number" to show ETH's selection, tactics and management? It's just dumb logic from the post.
Don't you see by your logic you can also always criticize the manager for lack of "selection, tactics and in-game management" while never hold the player accountable for anything? It's really dumb logic from the post, again.
When fan criticize the player's lack of effort, the logical way to defend the player is saying, no, fan is wrong, player show great effort on Sunday. But the fact is you didn't do so, you can't do so, and instead you try to bring up ETH to excuse show a lot about our player, when even their fan can't defend them properly.
I wonder what exactly can be your motivation? We should all want our player to try their best in the field, but instead you are here making excuse for them, not once or twice but several times.
You can find a striker that is good enough without spending your whole budget on them, if we need a player in two or three positions to be able to consistently play more effective football, then there are no excuses after the summer if the likes of De Gea, McTominay etc are still playing lots of matches. I don’t necessarily agree that a top striker makes a bigger difference than a better goalkeeper and defence, especially when you look at the amount of goals we’ve conceded.
Oh can you? Because anyone who scored 15 goals in a single season and is under 27 is going for 100m. Welcome to reality in 2023. Unless you are gambling on the hope to find Julian Alvarez for cheap, then yeah. But that's gambling. We've done that many times and failed with it. You gamble from a strong position like City do, still spending big on Haaland (when you look at fees and wages, not just release clause) despite getting Alvarez.
Also McTominay isn't playing many games. He is a backup for Casemiro and ten hag has tried variations without him when Casemiro has been absent. we just need a backup DM. That's the sort of signing where you can sign on a cheap while focusing your funds on a striker.
For goalkeeper, it depends on what is available. For me, it has to be Diogo Costa. But he's a 60-70m player. So you wait a year to get it after we signed our big name striker. Because that's what we need.
Provided that he pushes for a backup 6 as well because have seen zero talk of bringing one in
You mean
24 matches, W10 D7 L7 For33 Against33 37points.
And how did you figure it's the "same stage"?
What an embarrassing post.
You can, yes. None of the top teams in England have a striker that cost them the amount your touting. Arsenal bought Gabriel Jesus and Trossard for less than that, and City did the same with their strikers, both are top and didn’t cost as much as you’re suggesting. The idea that you have to put over 100 million on a forward because Liverpool did (they didn’t by the way) just isn’t true.
We haven’t really gambled on striker signings post Sir Alex, either.
https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...in-club-record-85m-transfer-deal-from-benfica
Yeah we go to absolute pieces away from home when we go behind which is evidenced by beatings at Brentford,City, Villa & scousers.
He simply has to address these multiple capitulations if we are going to be competitive in these fixtures next season.
He is probably saying that because doesn't want to end up with another GK like Henderson slagging off the club. Also chances are he probably is told he can't sell him due to budgeting for other bigger concerns.
100m euros, whatever.
Yes Arsenal got a great deal for Jesus that we would be incapable of doing because of artetas relationship and Uniteds rivalry. Trossard not a striker. Would be great to get Alvarez on a cheap, but again, not realistic. Haaland had a release clause, who then had a 50m total paid as agent fees after the transfer fee. And is on something like €40m per year after bonuses. Bild released a report saying this was the cost for him:
- €75m for his release clause + €10m in add ons
- €40m commission for Mino Raiola (Haaland’s agent)
- €30m commission for Alf-Inge Haaland (Erling’s father)
- €40m in wages per year spread over five years (€200m in total)
- Total: €355m
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He can't do everything now or at once but bare minimum he needs to find a way of United controlling football matches either through coaching or through new players.
He has to find a way of doing it.
This way games are bypassing United then saying it's attitude or desire won't help much.
How comes Pep's City or Arsenal this season don't have desire or attitude issues? Yet Liverpool now have attitude or desire issues yet it wasn't there last season or seasons before?
It's simple, match control. If you don't control matches it will always look like you have attitude or desire issues because everything is a ping pong and you don't have the ball.
As a by the way, I have seen this going round in Twitter, it's not a coincidence to me the reading reads almost the same.
1. Because we are plaqued by the same same problems Ole had. Match control.
2. We have the same same caliber of midfielders.
Casemiro upgraded Matic.
Eriksen slightly upgraded Pogba.
Bruno is still the sloppy Bruno.
Still we have no ball recycler, no ball carrier, no ball controller, only Casemiro has the physicality (that's why he lunges into tackles now than before in Madrid)
We can bury our heads under the sand, but I'm ready to put my balls on the line, with such a midfield we can not control over 25-30 games in a premier league season. And our problems will persist.
Away from home to better teams it will be being outplayed or hammerings, at home to bigger teams it will be 30%-40% possession counter attack games.
Ten Hag has to revamp the midfield area in the summer, with genuine quality.
Imagine a midfield of Casemiro, Scholes/Carrick, Odergaard we go to Anfield we will control the game from 1 minute to the last and Rashford smacks them a few goals. In Etihad we will go toe to toe with City.
Nunez cost Liverpool a lot less than 100 million pounds, even when add-ons are taken into account.
Haland will cost City a lot, but they have two strikers now and perhaps importantly didn’t need to replace their goalkeeper and midfield the same season.
until Ramos and Kolo Muani move, we don’t know how much they’ll actually end up costing, regardless though if there is a budget you look again for a cheaper option. If we sign Osihmen, and have the same issues with building from the back and having a below average goalkeeper and mixed quality in midfield then in my opinion we’ll have spent poorly. if you only need a striker to complete your team, get a Haland or an Omishen, or like Liverpoool spend big on Van Djik. If you need players in at least 3 positions then you need to be a bit smarter than buying one piece of the puzzle every season for an inflated fee.
He does not have a midfield so it's stupid to criticize. People were expecting us to challenge for the title under Ole with McFred and now they are doing it again. Save for Casemiro the rest are super poor bar the odd decent display here and there. He needs to buy 2 new good mids to add to Casemiro and Eriksen and we will be flying in most games.
Imagine comparing Ole's third season and ETH's first season where we are in building process where team is learning whole new tactic, lots of new players bedding in the new team and using that to as a stick to beat ETH. Horrible clueless tweet.
And people should stop comparing amount of points we have now to amount of last season because of same reason and tons of other factors. You can't just throw numbers like that without fecking context and "prove your point". I mean you can, but it will be pretty stupid. And let's not start talking about World Cup interruption that brought condensed schedule, key player injuries/suspensions etc.
Tired of all the numbers and stats merchants.
EDIT: Ok, I didn't read it proper, I see it states Ole's first 27 PL games, not last season, but most of my point above still stands. Especially for people comparing last season points with this one.
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What the tweeter neglects to mention is at that point it was "Ole's at the Wheel" and "give him a contract." It was only later the wheels came off he became "Clueless Dullard." Remains to be seen where United are if Ten Hag gets to 91 games.
Either way it's not good and even getting the wealth owners won't change it right away.
We should be looking at picking up some tree transfers ideally. Some top players soon out of contract as well.
Not downplaying anything. I just wrote I’m not satisfied with fifth position or below, nor do I think fifth position would be a success. We obviously have different expectations when it comes to ETH and United and what they are capable of.
We need to branch out and spruce up the midfield fir a real chance to win the league and buy another defender so we con-cedar less goals.
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