Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Marwood said:
Understand that and I agree.

But if we draw City in the semi final next year we'd likely not go through to the final either. They're way ahead of us. It's obviously much easier to get to the final when you have Notts Forest in the semi.

My point is cup runs are a fickle way of judging a manager or deciding the difference betweem two managers. There are too many variables at play.
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Why not? Just because Ole couldn't get past them, it doesn't mean Ten Hag can't. It's a cup game, form goes out of the window.

I do agree about the last paragraph and that's exactly why Ten Hag has been far better than Ole within just one year. I don't want to repeat the several times, but the ceiling of the team and the expectations from it under Ole were far too low in comparison to now under Ten Hag. He is in his way to equalize Ole's best results in just his first year here and we are still a work in progress. That alone is enough to show that Ole was godawful for United and Ten Hag is performing better.
 
I think we should maybe come back to this thread at the end of the season if we don’t make CL football, we simply need 7 wins from our last 11 games, 2 draws and 2 defeats would give us 73 points and pretty much guarantee Top 4.

The Goal difference is worrying, the last 3 PL games are worrying but we can’t blame Maguire, Lindelof, Etc for those 3 games.
My view is he let them off the hairdryer treatment after Liverpool, Casemeiro sending off side railed the fact that we can’t score PL goals with Antony and Weghorst in the starting line up, those selection mistakes are on ETH cause he picks them all the time, genuinely would rather play our under 21’s Hugill CFW than Weghorst, he’s just so bad and probably give Pellistri or Sancho a start over Antony or move Bruno to right wing where he creates goals. We need goals and we need an up tempo performance at old Trafford on Wednesday. Let’s be clear here though our under 21’s currently sit 9th with a goal
Difference of -16.

This is why we need new owners to do a full review and set definitive targets at all levels from under 18, Under 21, Full team and Ladies team. People who expect to win only employ best in class and if you don’t achieve the targets they set, they replace you. As united fans it’s the bare minimum we should expect and demand.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Ole only had two full seasons what are you talking about? The first one he only took over in December and the 4th he was sacked before Christmas. So we can only judge the two full seasons really and right now we are going to be hard pressed to beat one of his totals (74).

We ain't good enough ultimately. Poor recruitment in the summer again. Spending 85m on a winger who is worth 40 at most basically used up our budget and we are paying the price now with Weghorst rather than a competent striker.
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2 full seasons and 300m spent for 66 and 74 points and an EL final.

Great return.

It needed him 2 full markets to break the 70 points line in the league.
 
Yagami said:
My only concern is the next transfer window. If we don't bring in some press resistant players and players who can dribble, we'll be in trouble. Bring them in and improvements will be inevitable.
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Games like today illustrate why I'd prefer Kane over Osimhen.

We need more players comfortable on the ball.
 
el3mel said:
Why not? Just because Ole couldn't get past them, it doesn't mean Ten Hag can't. It's a cup game, form goes out of the window.

I do agree about the last paragraph and that's exactly why Ten Hag has been far better than Ole within just one year. I don't want to repeat the several times, but the ceiling of the team and the expectations from it under Ole were far too low in comparison to now under Ten Hag. He is in his way to equalize Ole's best results in just his first year here and we are still a work in progress. That alone is enough to show that Ole was godawful for United and Ten Hag is performing better.
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Because they're much better than us, have battered us this season already, its two legs not a one off game.

And crucially, its a lot different to getting Notts Forest in a semi final.

Who you face in a semi is a huge factor in making a final. If you're denying that we're not having a genuine debate here.
 
el3mel said:
2 full seasons and 300m spent for 66 and 74 points and an EL final.

Great return.

It needed him 2 full markets to break the 70 points line in the league.
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ETH spent 250m and lets not forget that Ole achieved what he did with a Mcfred midfield. He didn't have Casemiro.

It's really a closer contest than you're giving credit for tbh. Ultimately we don't look all that better for it. We just have Casemiro now where we didn't before.
 
j65454 said:
22 points behind Arsenal who have spent a small fraction United have in wages and transfer fees.

Hopefully we can do better next year.
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The same arsenal finished 8th, 8th and 5th under their manger. Their patience and rebuild is paying dividends.

United.prted ways with nearly 10
Playera in the summer and most needed to be replaced.

Klopp finished 8th in his first season and Pep barely scrapped 4th.

Reactionaries always steal the narrative. I wish cooler heads would prevail just once.
 
We've gone downhill since the Carabao cup final. Only played well vs Betis since then.

It's tough to say without knowing the locker room scenes, but it does feel like that victory went to everyone's head a bit. We've gotten complacent and we've gotten outworked in a lot of games since then.

Our ceiling will always be limited until we can control games better. There were positive signs of it, but we've gone downhill in this regard. The game is too back and forth and chaotic(and we're getting outworked in these chaotic games). The summer transfer window and subsequent pre-season work upcoming is absolutely massive.

And I still maintain that Ten Hag shouldn't have full authority in the summer window. Because he's brought in a massive dud in Weghorst and overpaid loads for Antony. If he wants to keep Weghorst, he needs to be overruled, because it's getting ridiculous that he keeps getting minutes. Elanga up top is not a worse option at this point. The entire team is being sabotaged with Weghorst's inclusion and players are ignoring him(rightly arguably), so we're essentially playing a man down at times.
 
The_Order said:
The same arsenal finished 8th, 8th and 5th under their manger. Their patience and rebuild is paying dividends.

United.prted ways with nearly 10
Playera in the summer and most needed to be replaced.

Klopp finished 8th in his first season and Pep barely scrapped 4th.

Reactionaries always steal the narrative. I wish cooler heads would prevail just once.
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If you skim posts(I know I do) it could read as reactionary but I haven't seen many wanting ETH out or anything. One or two extremists but that's standard.

It's more a few, including myself, saying all the talk of a turnaround, ETH working miracles, being a bit premature.

Nothing too drastic.
 
I think once Eriksen and Martial are back fit, and Casemiro from suspension, we'll f**king good play football
 
This guy isn't it! The football is barely better than peak Ole. We've a couple of better players but hardly a semblance of a team who can keep the ball. Yes we've still got shit players in that regard but our progress is mainly because of better players and accountability from the manager
 
next_number_seven said:
I think once Eriksen and Martial are back fit, and Casemiro from suspension, we'll f**king good play football
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Yea that won't happen it was a purple patch . Nothing more and Bruno is a joke and is No1 at 10 in a shit 4231 10 position. Never going anywhere with that setup
 
I didn't understand what was he thinking starting Weghorst and McTominay up front.
 
Marwood said:
If you skim posts(I know I do) it could read as reactionary but I haven't seen many wanting ETH out or anything. One or two extremists but that's standard.

It's more a few, including myself, saying all the talk of a turnaround, ETH working miracles, being a bit premature.

Nothing too drastic.
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I did read your full post, my post is a rebuttal to not just yourself.

Let's really go back to last season and look beyond the points and and look at the performances. And please tell me with a straight face there hasn't been an improvement and that the team doesn't play with a more focused plan.

Ten Hag's system requires the right skill sets hence why key players are missing we see a substantial fall off.

Look, every team will have a bad patch, we've ridden our luck for a bit and if not for refereeing incompetence we'd be better off.

Ten hag has had to deal with Maguire, Ronaldo, the club being sold, and rallying this team to meet the challenges of fighting on all fronts with a cup in hand.

The fact is there is only so much you get out of a midfield of mctominay, Fred and a forward who actually has negative pace. Today was bad and the manager got some things wrong and I for one hope Martial is back for good and we can end the Weghorst experiment. At the business end of the season he ain't it.
 
giggs-beckham said:
This guy isn't it! The football is barely better than peak Ole. We've a couple of better players but hardly a semblance of a team who can keep the ball. Yes we've still got shit players in that regard but our progress is mainly because of better players and accountability from the manager
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Your tag fits perfectly.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Games like today illustrate why I'd prefer Kane over Osimhen.

We need more players comfortable on the ball.
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Erik could have the best system in the world, but it'll only take us so far without those types of players.

City became a good team by buying players who were press resistant. Touré, Silva, Nasri, Tevez, Aguero. I don't think the coaching there was particularly impressive when they were transitioning into a top team. They just bought the right players.

Arsenal have become a good team large in part to bringing in press resistant players. Their front four can all dribble and shield the ball under pressure. None of them are lightweights which is why the can pin their opponents back in their half. Saliba is amazing at resisting pressing opposition, too.

We need players of this ilk more than anything.
 
Ironic olestans keep bringing him up given it’s the damage he’s done that needs fixing. Not sure how it’s possible not to see ETH is infinitely more qualified.
 
Marwood said:
Because they're much better than us, have battered us this season already, its two legs not a one off game.

And crucially, its a lot different to getting Notts Forest in a semi final.

Who you face in a semi is a huge factor in making a final. If you're denying that we're not having a genuine debate here.
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So City got KOed by Southampton this year but we won't be able to KO them?
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
ETH spent 250m and lets not forget that Ole achieved what he did with a Mcfred midfield. He didn't have Casemiro.

It's really a closer contest than you're giving credit for tbh. Ultimately we don't look all that better for it. We just have Casemiro now where we didn't before.
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This logic is hilarious. Ten Hag is the one who bought Casemiro. No one told Ole to spend 400m without buying a single midfielder out of them except VDB whom he froze anyway.
 
Waynne said:
Ten Hag is still new to the league. He's been in the job 8 months and there are still passengers in this team from previous regimes. Cut him some slack.

This unit will take another 2 - 3 years to get to City and Arsenal's level of consistency.
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Every coach gets it wrong in certain games or their tactics just don’t work against specific tactics. We saw that with Sir Alex, when team dropped the tempo back then we struggled.
After 10 years these same reality in football does not change. Liverpool and Newcastle are playing in a very similar way the rest you figure. That’s like saying Pep struggles against Leicester so he is a bad coach. There style of play just works against City.
We will have those teams and we will just have to accept it, believe the coach will keep fine tuning. Whilst this is happening we can’t sit back and deny it’s his tactics.
 
Casemiro is just doing a ton of work for us right now - both offensively and defensively. Without him, the team is a shade of what it can be. None of our existing midfielders can play #6 and actually pass the ball - he tried Fred, McT and now Sabitzer.

Until we get someone who can keep things ticking like Partey or even Xhaka not to mention guys of the Rodri, Busquets, FdJ caliber, this is going to happen.
 
giggs-beckham said:
This guy isn't it! The football is barely better than peak Ole. We've a couple of better players but hardly a semblance of a team who can keep the ball. Yes we've still got shit players in that regard but our progress is mainly because of better players and accountability from the manager
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Wow, we're at this stage already now? Holy feck! :lol:
 
We are in a bad spell but it is a necessary one to remind everyone of the significant task at hand. ETH wasn’t ever going to change things in one season. We still rely on individuals and until that changes we will be having significant downward moments.

I’ve seen enough to know that we need a significant transfer overhaul in terms of outgoings.
 
When Eriksen and Case are back we will look far better.

This season was always going to be inconsistent and anyone calling for the manager’s head already doesn’t deserve to support Utd.

Lets see how Pep, Klopp and Arteta do with Burnley’s striker and McTominay in midfield.

Our side doesn’t have goals in it and that’s on the Glazers, not the boss.
 
We're still a work in progress in today's game we were hurt by Newcastle high press. We can't play from the back too many players that aren't comfortable on the ball. De Gea is a liability and McTominay virtually hides away from receiving under pressure.

With Casemiro and Eriksen back we solve that problem, but still we need depth. We need to hit gold with our next transfers. We have way too many passengers in the team. Players such as McTominay, Sabitzer and Specially Weghorst shouldn't be starting for us but they are because there's no one else we can use at the moment.

I trust Ten Hag, back him and he'll deliver. It's frustrating having this set backs and being outplayed but right now we're clearly lacking quality as a squad overall.
 
At the beginning he was ruthless, whoever can't perform will be benched. Everyone must give their all on the pitch or you will be dropped.

Nowadays, we have Weghorst, Sabizter, McT, Antony, Dalot playing week in week out is embarrassing.
 
Berbasbullet said:
I understand your disappointment with Manchester United's recent performance. While Ten Hag's appointment brought high hopes, it takes time for a coach to implement their tactics effectively. Even the best teams have off-days and suffer defeats. Let's give the team time and support to bounce back.
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Shut up we want to piss and moan, not hear a grown up reaction.
 
We may need to consider playing the kids for the FA Cup. Focus on PL Top 4 and Europa. The players are showing signs of fatigue.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
I didn't understand what was he thinking starting Weghorst and McTominay up front.
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His plan was to have Bruno supporting WW and McT from the deep while these two would make things as difficult as possible for their midfield and defense. Imo it's not a bad plan tbf but it'd only work if we could control the match a bit and was able to play out of the back.

Imo of course ETH was largely responsible for the defeat yesterday. But the players also had a fair share in that I think. Newcastle simply wanted it more. No plan or tactic would work if you lose all the 50/50 and are hugely outmuscled and outworked.

This is his first season here so matches like this are expected imo. Even in the best years under SAF we still had random matches like this where we suddenly looked so shit, sometime even against newly promoted teams. SAF used to call matches like that 'accidents'. That's football. But I've no doubt we'd bounce back from this and win the next match.

I'd only worry if the next match we still look like this but truth is we've been able to play well pretty regularily under ETH. Lately we only had two bad matches against Liverpool and Newcastle both away and imo it's nothing new even under SAF. Both teams always raise their game against us at their home and away matches against those two have been always very unpredictable/difficult. We'd simply better move on and look forward toward the next match I think.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
We may need to consider playing the kids for the FA Cup. Focus on PL Top 4 and Europa. The players are showing signs of fatigue.
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This. He's spreading the core players too thin without rotation.

That and case and Eriksen back should help us a lot.
 
Strelok said:
His plan was to have Bruno supporting WW and McT from the deep while these two would make things as difficult as possible for their midfield and defense. Imo it's not a bad plan tbf but it'd only work if we could control the match a bit and was able to play out of the back.

Imo of course ETH was largely responsible for the defeat yesterday. But the players also had a fair share in that I think. Newcastle simply wanted it more. No plan or tactic would work if you lose all the 50/50 and are hugely outmuscled and outworked.

This is his first season here so matches like this are expected imo. Even in the best years under SAF we still had random matches like this where we suddenly looked so shit, sometime even against newly promoted teams. SAF used to call matches like that 'accidents'. That's football. But I've no doubt we'd bounce back from this and win the next match.

I'd only worry if the next match we still look like this but truth is we've been able to play well pretty regularily under ETH. Lately we only had two bad matches against Liverpool and Newcastle both away and imo it's nothing new even under SAF. Both teams always raise their game against us at their home and away matches against those two have been always very unpredictable/difficult. We'd simply better move on and look forward toward the next match I think.
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If the plan was to make things as difficult as possible for their midfield and defense then the plan was to counter attacking press not to control the match. So it doesn't make sense with what you said there.

Why would he want two slow with no technique playing up front together? WW and McT are too similar and don't compliment each other.

I'm not worried about the next match or the rest of the season or doubting ETH, I just want to know what was the idea of playing two slow players without technique that don't compliment each other.
 
This group looks absolutely shot to be honest and has so what done so since the cup final. It’s a combination of some technically and mentally deficient footballers and it being his first year but I’ve gone from expecting a performance to expecting a nothing display in a very short span of time. There’s just too many in this team who can’t handle the modern press or pass the way a top team needs to. For me ETH needs to focus more on possession play and demand that from the counter attacking merchants rather than get the best out of them in the short run because with them it will always be a short run.

We need to scrape top 4 and then ensure we add players who help us control games this summer.
 
Guardiola had bad days in his first season at City. So did Klopp. There’s a learning curve for any manager. Erik will be aite.
 
giggs-beckham said:
This guy isn't it! The football is barely better than peak Ole. We've a couple of better players but hardly a semblance of a team who can keep the ball. Yes we've still got shit players in that regard but our progress is mainly because of better players and accountability from the manager
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That happens when your football relies on Bruno Fernandes. Just wait until Eriksen is back.
 
A season under Ole with a trophy and top four would have been celebrated on here, even after being in the job for almost four years. We are well on course for exactly that under Erik in his first season. We good.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
If the plan was to make things as difficult as possible for their midfield and defense then the plan was to counter attacking press not to control the match. So it doesn't make sense with what you said there.

Why would he want two slow with no technique playing up front together? WW and McT are too similar and don't compliment each other.

I'm not worried about the next match or the rest of the season or doubting ETH, I just want to know what was the idea of playing two slow players without technique that don't compliment each other.
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The idea behind was McT is shit with his passing but he would score a bit so ETH wanted to try and see what McT could do in a more advanced position with more offensive responsability/freedom. And why high pressing/counter pressing doesn't mean to control the match? I mean literally every teams who want to control the game do that.

Both McT and WW don't have much pace. That's exactly why we didn't plan to play with a counter attack approach yesterday. To counter you simply need pace. The plan was to press high, control the match, push them back to their half, stress their defense wide then provide McT and WW from the midfield or out wide. In the first half you barely saw Rashford in their box when we had the ball.

In the second half ETH obviously released this couldn't work so he moved McT back and push Bruno forward. After their first goal things went tits up and I don't think we really had any defined structure or game plan onward. We simply were trying our best to pump more players toward their box in the hope of scoring. Imo it's a logical thinking since we're a goal down and there was not much time left anyway.
 
Gazza said:
Guardiola had bad days in his first season at City. So did Klopp. There’s a learning curve for any manager. Erik will be aite.
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Don't have to convince us. I fear for his safety if we somehow bottle top 4 (and EL). Especially with new owners coming in.
 
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