Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Well we have to play them in the league yet so that will be a nice three points for them, bearing in mind we're only 7 points ahead of them currently and they have a game in hand.

But at least we might beat them in a semi final eh?
If it puts us one game closer to an actual trophy which is what football is about then yes I'd rather beat them in a Semi Final.
Our record against the top 8 teams away from home is ass anyway and they'll drop points themselves as the league progresses anyway
 
Play the reserves against a very good Brighton team and risk getting embarrassed again out of fear of playing big bad ol City? Really?

Yeah. Focus on getting the CL spot, we have less than 10% of beating both Brighton and City.
 
Oh now we have a team with shit players?:lol: I thought we were just couple of players away from a top team?

The reality is somewhere down the middle about ten hag. Neither he’s that good as caf claims him to be nor he’s as bad as some other posters are saying. I have seen too many flaws in him to be considered a genius or something.
 
Yeah. Focus on getting the CL spot, we have less than 10% of beating both Brighton and City.
What did that focus on a CL Spot lead to in 2020 when we threw away the Semi Final FA Cup vs Chelsea?
It'll also be a sheer insult to the fans who've paid their hard earned money to come watch Utd seeing a second string team in a Cup Semi Final
 
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If it puts us one game closer to an actual trophy which is what football is about then yes I'd rather beat them in a Semi Final.
Our record against the top 8 teams away from home is ass anyway and they'll drop points themselves as the league progresses anyway
Because it's not a trophy!

The whole "well everyone else will drop points anyway so let's just have a nice day out at Wembley for the semi" stance is weirder than people wanting a top 4 position cemented.
 
Because it's not a trophy!

The whole "well everyone else will drop points anyway so let's just have a nice day out at Wembley for the semi" stance is weirder than people wanting a top 4 position cemented.
It's equally as weird to want to throw away a genuine chance of success over a Top 4 spot and it's also weird to think those around/below us won't also face a few road bumps. We're not the only club prone to poor results. When we threw away the FA Cup in 2020 vs Chelsea for a top 4 spot what did it lead to?
 
It's equally as weird to want to throw away a genuine chance of success over a Top 4 spot and it's also weird to think those around/below us won't also face a few road bumps. We're not the only club prone to poor results. When we threw away the FA Cup in 2020 vs Chelsea for a top 4 spot what did it lead to?
We don't have a chance though! If we were in a final I would agree with you but we've played no one difficult in any cup run yet except for Barcelona. Our run to the league cup final was easy as well.

And to be clear, I said feck off the EL, not the FA cup, that's only potentially two games, not 5 like the EL, we can manage that.

But hear me out here, what is the point of pushing as hard as possible to beat some very, very good teams in a competition just so we can win the competition and play CL football when we already have CL football if we just focus on winning as many of our remaining league games as possible? There's an easy way and a hard way to do this to get the same result.
 
Because it's not a trophy!

The whole "well everyone else will drop points anyway so let's just have a nice day out at Wembley for the semi" stance is weirder than people wanting a top 4 position cemented.
No weirder stance in football than sacrificing one game for another, when you're not guaranteed a win in either game. Say we go about it the way you want us to and we sacrifice the Brighton game, lose a couple of league games after it and don't get top 4, what then? Would you say we sacrifice the league games and focus on the EL?

Nothing is a given in football, it is now down to ten Hag, the coaching staff and players to get us out of this rut. We won't and never should sacrifice a cup competition for something that isn't a given, that's not in our clubs DNA.
 
It's equally as weird to want to throw away a genuine chance of success over a Top 4 spot and it's also weird to think those around/below us won't also face a few road bumps. We're not the only club prone to poor results. When we threw away the FA Cup in 2020 vs Chelsea for a top 4 spot what did it lead to?
When Rodgers won the FA Cup and bottled top 4, what did it lead to?
 
No weirder stance in football than sacrificing one game for another, when you're not guaranteed a win in either game. Say we go about it the way you want us to and we sacrifice the Brighton game, lose a couple of league games after it and don't get top 4, what then? Would you say we sacrifice the league games and focus on the EL?

Nothing is a given in football, it is now down to ten Hag, the coaching staff and players to get us out of this rut. We won't and never should sacrifice a cup competition for something that isn't a given, that's not in our clubs DNA.
I'm not asking him to sacrifice it, I'm saying play the reserves and work with the first team on their shape for the league and cup game. We're playing like strangers.
 
We don't have a chance though! If we were in a final I would agree with you but we've played no one difficult in any cup run yet except for Barcelona. Our run to the league cup final was easy as well.

And to be clear, I said feck off the EL, not the FA cup, that's only potentially two games, not 5 like the EL, we can manage that.

But hear me out here, what is the point of pushing as hard as possible to beat some very, very good teams in a competition just so we can win the competition and play CL football when we already have CL football if we just focus on winning as many of our remaining league games as possible? There's an easy way and a hard way to do this to get the same result.
You're no football psychic so you respectfully aren't in a position to declare something with that much certainty and finality. I bet you didn't think we'd beat the league leaders of Spain or Newcastle but here we are. We've had a relatively favorable fixture list in cups but the two tough teams we faced we beat.
If we can beat Barca we can beat Sevilla who've been terrible this season. If we can beat Newcastle we can beat Brighton as both are on just about the same level.
On your last paragraph I'd rather beat the best teams because it'll build the sort of belief and momentum we need to challenge for major honors and a bonus of winning trophies. Winning our remaining PL fixtures should still be a priority but focusing purely on that shows a lack of ambition and won't enhance any winning mentality. We'd be no different to Wenger's Arsenal
 
When Rodgers won the FA Cup and bottled top 4, what did it lead to?
It led to another trophy in the community shield
Their current faults are on the ownership, running of the club and their terrible financial situation which was completely out of Rodger's hands plus the players.
 
You're no football psychic so you respectfully aren't in a position to declare something with that much certainty and finality. I bet you didn't think we'd beat the league leaders of Spain or Newcastle but here we are. We've had a relatively favorable fixture list in cups but the two tough teams we faced we beat.
If we can beat Barca we can beat Sevilla who've been terrible this season. If we can beat Newcastle we can beat Brighton as both are on just about the same level.
On your last paragraph I'd rather beat the best teams because it'll build the sort of belief and momentum we need to challenge for major honors and a bonus of winning trophies. Winning our remaining PL fixtures should still be a priority but focusing purely on that shows a lack of ambition and won't enhance any winning mentality. We'd be no different to Wenger's Arsenal
We'll see then, and we'll see what people are saying in the summer when we've missed out on everything because we chased a quadruple with Weghorst upfront.
 
You're no football psychic so you respectfully aren't in a position to declare something with that much certainty and finality. I bet you didn't think we'd beat the league leaders of Spain or Newcastle but here we are. We've had a relatively favorable fixture list in cups but the two tough teams we faced we beat.
If we can beat Barca we can beat Sevilla who've been terrible this season. If we can beat Newcastle we can beat Brighton as both are on just about the same level.
On your last paragraph I'd rather beat the best teams because it'll build the sort of belief and momentum we need to challenge for major honors and a bonus of winning trophies. Winning our remaining PL fixtures should still be a priority but focusing purely on that shows a lack of ambition and won't enhance any winning mentality. We'd be no different to Wenger's Arsenal
I'm with you on this. I remember when Poch was looking down on cups cause it was beneath him, then he won fek all there just like at every job. I rather have a manager who goes out to win everything he can then the likes of Poch and co.
 
I'm with you on this. I remember when Poch was looking down on cups cause it was beneath him, then he won fek all there just like at every job. I rather have a manager who goes out to win everything he can then the likes of Poch and co.
And see where Poch is now
I also think focusing purely on top 4 is a lazy mentality which won't help us win trophies and it's precisely why Spurs and Wenger's Arsenal never became serial winners despite the "good football" they used to play
 
It led to another trophy in the community shield
Their current faults are on the ownership, running of the club and their terrible financial situation which was completely out of Rodger's hands plus the players.
True, but I wasn't taking aim at BR alone. Leicester could've taken the next step like Spurs if they manage to get top 4 regularly. Arsenal are FA cup specialists for the past decade, yet no one takes them seriously, to the point where Pep even sold them some of their best players. Trophies are obviously important, but if we're talking about giving up top 4, then I gotta draw the line there. Especially with the competition always increasing, there is no guarantee we'd walk back in it next year. We could end up like Chelsea.
 
Not just ETH but the whole club have gotten a bit stale and I wonder if waiting for the sale to go through/not go through could do with letting everyone know where they stand or could be faced with. Where I thought you could see the motivation of players being completely changed and more upbeat at the beginning of the season looks like everyone feels they're stuck in longer queues at the airport or just want things resolved as do the fans. What happened to all the positivity and momentum?
Positivity and momentum can only take you so far. We have a lot of broken pieces that can only be papered over. Without Eriksen and Casemiro our midfield is useless at retaining the ball. Wout is a poor CF. We’ve needed a new RB for ages and DDG makes great saves but also keeps passing to the opponent.

Add to thatthe fact that we’ve played more football than anyone and it’s easy to see why we are in a bad run of form.
 
Take Casemiro out of the team, do you think United would finish higher than 65 points this season?

For the last time, Ten Hag is the one who bought Casemiro. It's not his fault that our midfield options are terrible bar his own purchases. That's the fault of whoever was in charge before him.
 
True, but I wasn't taking aim at BR alone. Leicester could've taken the next step like Spurs if they manage to get top 4 regularly. Arsenal are FA cup specialists for the past decade, yet no one takes them seriously, to the point where Pep even sold them some of their best players. Trophies are obviously important, but if we're talking about giving up top 4, then I gotta draw the line there. Especially with the competition always increasing, there is no guarantee we'd walk back in it next year. We could end up like Chelsea.
Leicester have won more trophies in the last 7 years than Spurs in the last 20-30yrs with a PL Title being one of them beating Spurs to it(whom you weirdly think they should aim to be like)
I can bet every single cent in the world there's not a single Leicester fan that would swap their last 7 years for the 4/5 years Spurs had under Pochettino being an almost maybe team
 
I think we have to accept Ten Hag has made some big mistakes so far - not least his signing of, and then complete reliance on Weghorst, who overall has been dreadful and possibly the worst striker we've ever had.

On the plus there are also many positives but the fact we are only three points better off than this time last season says we have to be realistic about where we are so far.
 
I much prefer the early Emirates period where we were playing great football and in a few title races over the period where we won a bunch of FA cups. Not just from an entertainment perspective but also because how you perform in the league is ultimately most indicative of your capacity to challenge for the big trophies and not just domestic cup competitions.

The reason Spurs are in their current position is that they tried the half-measures approach of settling for any trophy knowing that they couldn't challenge for the league and failing anyway, because it's a short-sighted approach. Under Poch, they were in a couple of title races and reached the CL final. You can consider those to be 'almost' seasons but they were in the right trajectory and would probably be in a better place right now had they backed him and not gone a whole summer transfer window without signing any player.
 
EtH still has my backing but I don't understand why we don't at least try to control games, every move is a transition. Yes that suits players like Bruno and Rashford but we effectively play with a massive hole in the middle of the pitch. Scott, Fred, Bruno can play with the ball at their feet, I've seen it, it feels more like a tactical choice to be this transitional and that's on EtH. He needs to suss this out otherwise we won't finish top 4.
 
EtH still has my backing but I don't understand why we don't at least try to control games, every move is a transition. Yes that suits players like Bruno and Rashford but we effectively play with a massive hole in the middle of the pitch. Scott, Fred, Bruno can play with the ball at their feet, I've seen it, it feels more like a tactical choice to be this transitional and that's on EtH. He needs to suss this out otherwise we won't finish top 4.
I dont think its on purpose, Fred and McTominay are just not players good enough to control games.
 
EtH still has my backing but I don't understand why we don't at least try to control games, every move is a transition. Yes that suits players like Bruno and Rashford but we effectively play with a massive hole in the middle of the pitch. Scott, Fred, Bruno can play with the ball at their feet, I've seen it, it feels more like a tactical choice to be this transitional and that's on EtH. He needs to suss this out otherwise we won't finish top 4.

We try to control games, and we fail at it. We can't even keep the ball in our own defense area, the opposition presses us and we have to kick it away.
 
You fear for him if we don't finish in the top 4 this season. You will not get a better opportunity than this ever. Just feck the EL off for crying out loud, it's killing us playing this many games a week.
If we don't beat Brentford and Everton this week we'll start looking at EL as our best chance of a CL spot.

Easy to see us dropping points in both given the way we are playing. Brentford also have an extra days rest and Everton don't play midweek before the 12:30 kick off on Saturday.
 
EtH still has my backing but I don't understand why we don't at least try to control games, every move is a transition. Yes that suits players like Bruno and Rashford but we effectively play with a massive hole in the middle of the pitch. Scott, Fred, Bruno can play with the ball at their feet, I've seen it, it feels more like a tactical choice to be this transitional and that's on EtH. He needs to suss this out otherwise we won't finish top 4.

Playstyle has basically reverted back to Oleball. Transition, lob the ball, and pray. But the players we have are absolutely diabolical in possession. They just can't pass the ball. Bruno, Fred, McTominay, Weghorst, Sancho, Sabitzer, just terrible. Dalot, AWB, and Shaw are middling at best. I get palpitations every time I see the ball passed back to De Gea. We are struggling immensely to build from the back. We are getting pressed into oblivion. Once the ball leaves Martinez, it's over 90% of the time.

Ten Hag has made mistakes, but the overall quality of the entire squad is very, very low. We need a dozen players if we are looking to compete seriously and play good football. This includes not just starters but depth, too. It's unacceptable to have such a chasm of quality between starters and subs.
 
So all it takes is a penalty save from De Gea to change your mind on Ole the manager. Alrighty then. Presumably if we hadn't beaten Newcastle in the final, like we didn't today, you'd have a different opinion of ETH then?

You realise in cup competitions there are variables beyond the control of the manager yes?

Like getting Notts Forest in a semi final rather than Chelsea or City? You don't think that plays a part in advancing to a final?

This is nothing to do with ETH by the way or what I think of him.

It's to do with how a fan/pundit asseses a manager. As if they're a puppet master, the controller of all things.

We had a lovely route to the league cup final and. In the final our opposition were actually the better team. But we won anyway as it sometimes happens.

Clinging onto that as a major sign of progress, as a huge difference maker between this manager amd the last is serious short termism.

The league is the truth teller of where a team is and on that count we aren't much better.
Your argument is beyond dumb because there were so many factors at play in both games. You’re basically telling me it’s not ok to compare cup winning managers with those who fail in the cups purely because they are knockouts decided by binary situations which is absolutely ridiculous. It’s just trying to defend your silly argument that brought up semi finals and finals in the first place whilst ignoring the fact that EtH actually won his first one.
 
I was half asleep during the game, so maybe there was a reason for it, but what was taking off Varane and Martinez all about? That's the weirdest set of subs I've seen him make for us. There was literally no plan any more. If we're gonna play one CB, at least let it be Varane or Martinez.

Either way, our away from is absolutely horrific and part of it is on ETH.
 
That's not entirely true.

We completely outplayed Barcelona with a makeshift team somewhat. We dominated Betis(who gave Real problems).

There were signs of our football progressing in the right direction. It's gone downhill since the Carabao cup final though.
Betis aren't exactly elite opposition and yes we did outplay Barca, but that's just 2 games. Other than that Spurs is probably the only other big team we've actually outplayed this season. We did beat Arsenal, City and Pool but they weren't exactly dominant performances. We deservedly won those games but we still relied on quick transitions to win those games, like we did under Ole.

Perception plays a key role in fans views. Even before he joined, many viewed ETH as a modern progressive coach and so will see things with those tinted glasses. Similarly, Ole for instance was viewed as not a great coach so our team could have the same exact performance under both of them, but people will always view the performance under ETH as part of a grander plan while that under Ole as a one off.

Like I said I believe ETH is doing a good job but any talk of us being on the right path for sure is far too premature. League Cups and Europa Leagues are not barometers by which Man Utd can be measured. At the end it will always come back to how close to the top we are in the league table and currently we are miles behind. Let's see next season after ETH is allowed to further mould the team in his vision and then judge him.
 
Betis aren't exactly elite opposition and yes we did outplay Barca, but that's just 2 games. Other than that Spurs is probably the only other big team we've actually outplayed this season. We did beat Arsenal, City and Pool but they weren't exactly dominant performances. We deservedly won those games but we still relied on quick transitions to win those games, like we did under Ole.

Perception plays a key role in fans views. Even before he joined, many viewed ETH as a modern progressive coach and so will see things with those tinted glasses. Similarly, Ole for instance was viewed as not a great coach so our team could have the same exact performance under both of them, but people will always view the performance under ETH as part of a grander plan while that under Ole as a one off.

Like I said I believe ETH is doing a good job but any talk of us being on the right path for sure is far too premature. League Cups and Europa Leagues are not barometers by which Man Utd can be measured. At the end it will always come back to how close to the top we are in the league table and currently we are miles behind. Let's see next season after ETH is allowed to further mould the team in his vision and then judge him.
He's a promising coach and overall team has improved. Our midfied weakness has been exposed and a free transfer plus Casimero were never going to fix it, especially when McT is so limited and Fred so erratic. The most concerning thing is him sticking with Weghurst, we are literally playing with 10 and oppposition teams know they can largely ignore him. A CF who cant score is not a CF. Unless he finds an alternative then I will lose a lot of faith in ETH.
 
Betis aren't exactly elite opposition and yes we did outplay Barca, but that's just 2 games. Other than that Spurs is probably the only other big team we've actually outplayed this season. We did beat Arsenal, City and Pool but they weren't exactly dominant performances. We deservedly won those games but we still relied on quick transitions to win those games, like we did under Ole.

Perception plays a key role in fans views. Even before he joined, many viewed ETH as a modern progressive coach and so will see things with those tinted glasses. Similarly, Ole for instance was viewed as not a great coach so our team could have the same exact performance under both of them, but people will always view the performance under ETH as part of a grander plan while that under Ole as a one off.

Like I said I believe ETH is doing a good job but any talk of us being on the right path for sure is far too premature. League Cups and Europa Leagues are not barometers by which Man Utd can be measured. At the end it will always come back to how close to the top we are in the league table and currently we are miles behind. Let's see next season after ETH is allowed to further mould the team in his vision and then judge him.
Nobody can say its a right path for sure, sure. We'll see what happens but cup wins will be a good beginning although as you said leage is where its at.
Also regarding wins vs City, Arsenal and Liverpool, as you said we won deservedly so dont get the point of being dominant wins or not. If it was deserved it means it wasnt a smash and grab or something.
 
I still think we will drag ourselves over the line and get top 4, but we really don’t look good at the moment and it’s going to be a struggle. We look tired, the squad is honestly lacking so much.

Also as funny as Weggy is the joke is running really thin, and that’s all on the manager. If he gets signed permanently then yeah I’ll have a lot to say while also being speechless.

He still has my full backing to take us forward though.
 
I still think we will drag ourselves over the line and get top 4, but we really don’t look good at the moment and it’s going to be a struggle. We look tired, the squad is honestly lacking so much.

Also as funny as Weggy is the joke is running really thin, and that’s all on the manager. If he gets signed permanently then yeah I’ll have a lot to say while also being speechless.

He still has my full backing to take us forward though.
Yes, as much as I love him insistence on Weghorst is starting to be worrisome. Not to mention if we signed him. I just hope Martial will manage to stay fit for more than 2 games.
 
At the beginning of the season, the main aim was top 4 and the team start to play as a team with high pressing attacking football ETH was known for.

It's worrying that 8 months in we are seeing that the team regress back to Ole and Rangnick style.

It's not a one off that we were been totally outplayed by a team. It happened quite frequently.
 
Nobody can say its a right path for sure, sure. We'll see what happens but cup wins will be a good beginning although as you said leage is where its at.
Also regarding wins vs City, Arsenal and Liverpool, as you said we won deservedly so dont get the point of being dominant wins or not. If it was deserved it means it wasnt a smash and grab or something.
I think the reason many rightly criticized Ole even after big wins against City etc was that his method of winning by relying on counters and quick transitions wasn't sustainable in the long run. My point is most of our big wins this season have been via that route, so yes while deserved they don't necessarily prove ETH's credentials as being a shoo-in for long term success.
 
Positivity and momentum can only take you so far. We have a lot of broken pieces that can only be papered over. Without Eriksen and Casemiro our midfield is useless at retaining the ball. Wout is a poor CF. We’ve needed a new RB for ages and DDG makes great saves but also keeps passing to the opponent.

Add to thatthe fact that we’ve played more football than anyone and it’s easy to see why we are in a bad run of form.
I'm sure you know better. I think it's a shame to place all the blame on the manager but I don't see you doing any better than ETH considering the improvements you have really made.
 
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