Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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I think Ten Hag misread the game.
We were fatigued and Liverpool very energetic and motivated.
We needed to just dig in and get a result
We were fatigued and Liverpool very energetic and motivated.
We needed to just dig in and get a result
The self-preservation society strikes again. This is why we needed a mass clear-out of players from the Ole era which we didn't get as the Glazers didn't have the cash. I hope the Qataris give most of these lads the fecking boot.
I don't care how good they've been for most of the season, Rashford and Shaw are among those who have to go IMO.
Decent post. Well said.
I do think there is something in just having a clear out of every player who has played in games like yesterday. Rashford I’d keep though.
So you genuinely think the players were acting on ETH’s plan in the second half? What you saw was what he wanted?
Still can’t get my head around the naivety of Sunday. The difference between conceding 3/4 and what happened is huge.
Glad we’ve got ETH as manager, but some very valid questions have been raised.
Glad we’ve got ETH as manager, but some very valid questions have been raised.
You’ve been reading MikeLUHG’s twitter, haven’t you?
In seriousness though, Shaw’s performance was one of the worst I’ve seen from a pro footballer. It stood head and shoulders above the rest for just how bad it was.
So, we're gutting the entire team?
I agree, some shouldn't be here next season.
But you'd get rid of our best attacker and best defender. Who's replacing them then?
Not absolving any player for last night either. It should be the final curtain for certain players and the last straw for others.
The funny part is that he was fine in the 1st half. Probably our best player.
His 2nd half was a disgrace and he should be dropped for the game against Betis IMO.
If he has a performance like that ever again, he should be axed from the squad and I'm a big fan of his.
Playing bad is fine. Giving up and refusing to try is not fine. I truly hope he's aware of much he disgraced himself.
The guy reads like a Ralph Rangnick burner account. All these accounts were suspciously quiet whilst we were on a winning streak. Now they are out declaring doom and gloom and that the players all have to go, ridiculous.
To be fair, I think any manager can hide behind "they didn't do what I wanted" whenever anything goes wrong.
The job of the manager is to instil into the players a sense of tactical awareness and professionalism such that even in an off-game where you lose, the performance level doesn't dip below a certain minimum standard. So either all the players need replacing in the summer because they're incapable of following instructions, or they need to be better prepared mentally and tactically for the different scenarios they can find themselves in in a game. It's also not the first mauling we've took this season.
I'm putting 95% of the blame on the players though because they could have left that game with a 3-0 loss if they had any sense of pride.
The reality is that this squad is full of players who simply don't have the winner mentality or mental fortitude that is required at this level and we'd need to sell as soon as possible. Sure, they might be decent, we might win games and even finish top 4, but going toe to toe with big teams for any extended period of a time, let alone win the title with this bunch is next to impossible. Players like Shaw, Rashford, Fernandes, Dalot have been notable culprits for these drubbings we've been enduring these past few years. McTominay and Fred are obviously not at this level and De Gea is way past it.
I do think a manger is very important in motivating players, but if players need a manager to tell them to be professional, those players don't belong at the club.
We just won a cup. Beat Barcelona. We have gone toe to toe at home, beaten Arsenal, City, and Liverpool. The drubbings away from do need to stop but, I feel it’s a bit unfair to say they’re not capable of being at the required level. Should we bin off Varane and Casemiro as well? they didn’t exactly cover themselves in glory yesterday either.
Still traumatized. Calls to replace a bunch of players are premature but what the hell were they doing, completely abandoning their tasks in the 2nd half?
I like what Ten Hag is doing to motivate the players to never let this happen again. It seems like he is pulling out all the stops.
Betis will fancy a result, we should relieve them of that notion
I like what Ten Hag is doing to motivate the players to never let this happen again. It seems like he is pulling out all the stops.
Betis will fancy a result, we should relieve them of that notion
Sounds to me you have had enough of him already looking at your last two posts,maybe go and support scousers/City if you want to big their managers up
I don't even know how to reply to this? The set-up is comprised of individuals. If you only do X for Z amount of time and end up holding 7 and the end of the day - then your assessment has to conclude that your set-up failed. It's not even an isolated hammering either. 3 of 10 of our biggest ever prem losses are from this season.
That is rubbish about 3 of our 10 biggest ever prem losses weren't this season. The only one was yesterday so maybe check facts first
He'll have a busy summer either way but to say he's lost the dressing room this early on is ridiculous.
Yeah, it's why ultimately the major mistake Ten Hag made yesterday was probably going with Weghorst over Sabitzer. We needed mobility and a genuine 3rd midfielder. Liverpool play at a high tempo, and if someone like Weghorst (big, hard working but slow) works in midfield against Barcelona, he probably won't against a good side playing much, much faster.
We've just not got the depth to compete on all fronts this year.
Yesterday was atrocious but threading the needle and finishing top 4 and trying to win a 2nd trophy (Europa or FA Cup) is going to be tough and probably involve an ugly defeat or two, but that's the goal.
Then we need to buy 3-4 players in the summer to upgrade the squad and then the question will be, does Ten Hag have the flexibility to give us a genuine plan B tactically instead of just running out a 4-3-3 and gambling that the weak/far side fullback getting a free run towards half when the ball is switched out (we did the same with City as I recall, and Walker just struggled to create anything) won't kill us, which it did yesterday.
To me, yesterday was a tired team and a manager who didn't act proactively against a good team that plays differently than the one we just outplayed over 2 legs. You can have one or the other, but both is a recipe for disaster.
I will admit that I thought Bruno at LW made some sense and it may instead have completely destabilized us, though ultimately this problem is caused by not having a #9, as we know that long-term the plan has to be Rashford out left in the Cristiano at Madrid role, a #9 up front, Antony or Bruno out right and Bruno or Eriksen at #10 in a 3 man midfield.
People are so trigger-happy with their opinion these days. Just a few weeks ago Klopp was past his best, cursed by a seven-year cycle and running his team into the ground. In fact, Klopp has been written off numerous times this season, a couple of seasons back (when his team lost 7-2 to Villa), and during his first year in charge. Now he is a messiah over ETH, who by the way was a genius three days ago but is now apparetly on the verge of total failure.
Pep has been written off many times during his City career too, including his first year in the job. I blame the media for driving these narratives, which even happens on TV these days. It wasn't too long ago when the ex-pros who make up TV punditry would have a little more nous. Now it is all headline grabbing one-liners and pundits as celebrities. And I include them all in that (including the United legends), they are all talking in soundbites to grab clicks and views. Bunch of assholes the lot of them.
ETH is an elite level manager, of that I have no doubt. If he isn't given the time or resources to win the lot at Manchester United, he will head off and do it somewhere else. He is up there with the best but the job he has at United is big. His success to date has made it seem smaller than it was. Not many coaches land on their feet at the top end of the Premier League. Klopp and Pep didn't. To some degree ETH has because he is delivering probably a best case scenario considering what happened last season.
He shouldn't be let off the hook for his part in the humilation at Liverpool, but he should have more credit in the bank. I have been thinking over the last couple of weeks as the media was fawning over ETH that they were just setting him up tear him down. Anfield on Sunday was one of the strangest games I have seen in some ways. Furthermore, I am not at all convinced it means Liverpool are "back" (whatever that means). Everybody on United's end deserves the backlash from fans, but it does not mean that the ETH project has ground to a halt.
Pep has been written off many times during his City career too, including his first year in the job. I blame the media for driving these narratives, which even happens on TV these days. It wasn't too long ago when the ex-pros who make up TV punditry would have a little more nous. Now it is all headline grabbing one-liners and pundits as celebrities. And I include them all in that (including the United legends), they are all talking in soundbites to grab clicks and views. Bunch of assholes the lot of them.
ETH is an elite level manager, of that I have no doubt. If he isn't given the time or resources to win the lot at Manchester United, he will head off and do it somewhere else. He is up there with the best but the job he has at United is big. His success to date has made it seem smaller than it was. Not many coaches land on their feet at the top end of the Premier League. Klopp and Pep didn't. To some degree ETH has because he is delivering probably a best case scenario considering what happened last season.
He shouldn't be let off the hook for his part in the humilation at Liverpool, but he should have more credit in the bank. I have been thinking over the last couple of weeks as the media was fawning over ETH that they were just setting him up tear him down. Anfield on Sunday was one of the strangest games I have seen in some ways. Furthermore, I am not at all convinced it means Liverpool are "back" (whatever that means). Everybody on United's end deserves the backlash from fans, but it does not mean that the ETH project has ground to a halt.
Ten Hag is an intelligent man and probably knows what to do. I trust him 100%.
My recipe would be the following steps.
Step 1. Calm down! This week isn’t the right time to make serious analysis.
Step 2. Stop the blame game! Heavy critic of certain individuals doesn’t help us either short or long term. Right now focus on the next game.When the season is over is the right time for consequences and departures.
Step 3. Forgiveness! Forget this result as soon as possible. Don’t let one bad game destroy months of good results. Once again focus on the next game. Help those with a fragile self confidence and make sure everyone inside the dressing room is onboard. Create a we against them culture. We win and we lose together. That includes players, managers, coaches, supporters and all of us who has invest our souls in this club.
Step 4. Regain energy and concentration! Stop listen to negativity. Turn off social media and media in general and start to listen to those next to us who cares.
Step 5. Win the next game! Nothing heal our wounds and souls better than a win. Nothing change our mood better then a win. Our next game will show us who among the players we can count on and not. That’s the most valuable lesson we can take with us short and long term from this horrible defeat against our worst rival.
We’re all in a chock. Supporters. Coaches. Ten Hag. The players.
Media is having a field day, our biggest critics is dancing on our graves and the Piers Morgan of the world is doing their best to piss on our wounds. Let them do that. Let them think that we’re done.
Our time will come. Revenge is the best medicine.
My recipe would be the following steps.
Step 1. Calm down! This week isn’t the right time to make serious analysis.
Step 2. Stop the blame game! Heavy critic of certain individuals doesn’t help us either short or long term. Right now focus on the next game.When the season is over is the right time for consequences and departures.
Step 3. Forgiveness! Forget this result as soon as possible. Don’t let one bad game destroy months of good results. Once again focus on the next game. Help those with a fragile self confidence and make sure everyone inside the dressing room is onboard. Create a we against them culture. We win and we lose together. That includes players, managers, coaches, supporters and all of us who has invest our souls in this club.
Step 4. Regain energy and concentration! Stop listen to negativity. Turn off social media and media in general and start to listen to those next to us who cares.
Step 5. Win the next game! Nothing heal our wounds and souls better than a win. Nothing change our mood better then a win. Our next game will show us who among the players we can count on and not. That’s the most valuable lesson we can take with us short and long term from this horrible defeat against our worst rival.
We’re all in a chock. Supporters. Coaches. Ten Hag. The players.
Media is having a field day, our biggest critics is dancing on our graves and the Piers Morgan of the world is doing their best to piss on our wounds. Let them do that. Let them think that we’re done.
Our time will come. Revenge is the best medicine.
Mods change this man's tagline. Good post and appreciate the sentiment. I will add one more step and that is make clear it is unacceptable to capitulate and give up in that manner. You represent the greatest football club in the world and the greatest fans in the world. The minimum in every match is effort and commitment.
Yeah do wish he shut up shop at 3-0 and focused on damage limitation,that way at least we don't have a hammering which stands out horribly in the record books. Would also have been an easier defeat for these players to bounce back from.
Yeah it's not all doom and gloom gents. I agree that the manner of this loss was inexcusable but regardless of the score it was one loss.Why are you acting like he’s losing the dressing room?
It was one bad game ffs
Should we not kick on from here then I'd be concerned. My biggest peeve with giving Ole his permanent contract when he had his stint as interim manager was the fact that they gave it to him on the back of good performances. We didn't have a chance to analyze how he gets the team to bounce back from the bad ones.
With Ten Hag we've already seen that he can do that. This is a really low low. But I'm confident it's a blip and nothing more.
Tbf we Played Liverpool without our controller in Eriksen as also played Assanal(second leg) without Casimiro but we lost those games deservedly...
I'd imagine if everyone was fit we would have played the top six teams with something like this; 4-3-1-2
DGG, Dalot/AWB, Varane, Martinez/Shaw, Shaw/Malacia
Eriken Casimiro Fred/Sabitzer
Bruno
Antony/Sancho Rashford
We've seen ETH deploy this tactics before(Man Cithe second leg) and i strongly believe he was left short handed with Eriken injury and Sabitzer yet to get up to speed, this system would have helped us in and out of possession, we would have theoretically seen Rashford and Antony pulls wide into the flanks to help cover the full backs while Bruno act as the false nine, but when in possession Bruno has the freedom to roam any and everywhere in the attacking third while Rashford and Antony move more Central occasionally depending on the side of the pitch the ball is at; let's assume the ball is on the right flank where Antony occupies out of possession, so it's Rashford and possibly Bruno's(if he isn't involved in the build up to creating the current chance) to move into the box with a late runner from Midfield, same applies on the Rashford flank.
The midfield trio of Eriksen(Controller) Casimiro(Destroyer) and Fred(Enforcer/ Harasser) would have brought perfect balance which in turn would have made everyone's task alot simpler, which would have seen us controlling the tempo, destroying opp attacks and Harassing the opposition in different moments in games.
The fullbacks would also help in Bumping foward from time to time, while still having the tactical option of bring players like Martial, Sancho, Granacho, Lindelöf, Maguire, Sabitzer and Wout off the bench when needed to aid for different tactic depending on how the game in going.
It's all hindsight but like i said we've seen ETH use it before and i believe that would have been the way at least at Anfield last Sunday.
We March on even in defeat and we can only hope ETH can turn it around again like he did after the Brentford slapping.
I'd imagine if everyone was fit we would have played the top six teams with something like this; 4-3-1-2
DGG, Dalot/AWB, Varane, Martinez/Shaw, Shaw/Malacia
Eriken Casimiro Fred/Sabitzer
Bruno
Antony/Sancho Rashford
We've seen ETH deploy this tactics before(Man Cithe second leg) and i strongly believe he was left short handed with Eriken injury and Sabitzer yet to get up to speed, this system would have helped us in and out of possession, we would have theoretically seen Rashford and Antony pulls wide into the flanks to help cover the full backs while Bruno act as the false nine, but when in possession Bruno has the freedom to roam any and everywhere in the attacking third while Rashford and Antony move more Central occasionally depending on the side of the pitch the ball is at; let's assume the ball is on the right flank where Antony occupies out of possession, so it's Rashford and possibly Bruno's(if he isn't involved in the build up to creating the current chance) to move into the box with a late runner from Midfield, same applies on the Rashford flank.
The midfield trio of Eriksen(Controller) Casimiro(Destroyer) and Fred(Enforcer/ Harasser) would have brought perfect balance which in turn would have made everyone's task alot simpler, which would have seen us controlling the tempo, destroying opp attacks and Harassing the opposition in different moments in games.
The fullbacks would also help in Bumping foward from time to time, while still having the tactical option of bring players like Martial, Sancho, Granacho, Lindelöf, Maguire, Sabitzer and Wout off the bench when needed to aid for different tactic depending on how the game in going.
It's all hindsight but like i said we've seen ETH use it before and i believe that would have been the way at least at Anfield last Sunday.
We March on even in defeat and we can only hope ETH can turn it around again like he did after the Brentford slapping.
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Think it was SAF who said after the 6-1 to City that the players themselves should realise how the game is going and see it out at 3/4-0 rather than conceding the last two.
Surely it's possible they just wrote that story with no source?
I'm also concerned about fatigue. Surprised they made our this far because the backup squad players are a big drop off.
You have no idea who is leaking, or even if noone is leaking, and they just made up the story. But you're conclusion is to get rid of our top goal scorer with zero evidence. ffs.
I just wish he had brought AWB on at HT
Yeah, that and Bruno left wing were my two tactical complaints, we were the better team first half and could easily have gone in ahead.
Livercunt and Assanal? What age are you?
Freak games happen, chill the feck out. Even Klopp got spanked 7-2 back in 2020, by no less than Aston Villa.
I felt we were due a game where fatigue seriously took it’s toll on us.
It’s embarrassing but the reaction to the defeat is the important thing.
I felt we were due a game where fatigue seriously took it’s toll on us.
It’s embarrassing but the reaction to the defeat is the important thing.
Thought I'd pop my head in to see what Redcafe was saying having avoided social media / Sky Sports etc for the past 2 days. Time to go back into hibernation clearly ....
Haha I don't blame you!
Thought I'd pop my head in to see what Redcafe was saying having avoided social media / Sky Sports etc for the past 2 days. Time to go back into hibernation clearly ....
Tbf he's right, they are livercnuts and assanals.
Putting aside the Liverpool result, I'd like us to actually be able to take games to the likes of Liverpool or Arsenal. Counter attacking football has its perks and we should be able to be effective on transitions but why can't we set up to take games to our opponents every once in a while?
Even the league cup final, we were clearly set up to counter. Could be argued that we were in control of that game but Newcastle didn't have enough quality on the ball and a better team would've done us.
Even the league cup final, we were clearly set up to counter. Could be argued that we were in control of that game but Newcastle didn't have enough quality on the ball and a better team would've done us.
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