Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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captaincantona said:
Being "tired" is far from bullshit - its common sense and if you think that fatigue did not play some sort of role in that defeat then I think you're kidding yourself. ETH was criticized at Ajax for not rotating effectively - which could be because, as it the case here, he didnt have the bench to do so without compromising quality of play and execution of his game plan. Now a few more transfer windows might fix that but without a doubt, more players could have been rested in the run up to this fixture.

Finally, 2 games a week is only standard for certain periods of the season - we have been doing it for months on end with largely the same core players. Injuries have occurred and ETH has been forced to rethink but its clear he only trusts a core group.

I dont blame ETH or think he is at fault - its his way and i trust him. But to simply ignore the amount of football our key players have been asked to play is just silly.
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My concern whenever fatigue is mentioned is, what is going to change from now to the end of the season?

We'll be playing every weekend and every midweek till the seasons end. If we were tired on Sunday we're going to be tired every game from this point on. They're not getting a rest. The best you're going to get is some rotation of key players like vs West Ham.
 
The result itself to me didn't bother me so much. It was a freak game where every Liverpool opportunity went perfectly and our players uncharacteristically downed tools after one of the most gruelling schedules in football history.

What disappoints me is that at 3-0, we made aggressive substitutions. By the time we made our second set of changes we were down by 5 and they continued to be like-for-like rather than 'de. ETH needs to learn that getting hammered like this is not good for anyone and to accept defeat every now and then, and it's better to keep the score line as low as possible!
 
Gordon Godot said:
I'm afraid Wout simply isnt good enough. He cant even be a target man and win headers. Maybe a last 10 minute impact sub but we must have better players in the squad. I will lose a fair bit of faith in ETH if he starts Wout in the next league match, its increasingly like playing with 10 men. Garnacho would have made Liverpool nervous on Sunday, Real showed their vulnerabiltiy at the back.
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I'd have even prefered Bruno as a false 9 and play Sabitzer or McT in midfield. Rashford on the left to run at Trent
 
spiriticon said:
I like that Ten Hag is not having any of this 'tired' bullshit.

There's no point working so hard for CL football and when you get there, you are 'too tired' to play the competition properly to the end.

2 games a week is standard for every top team.
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But we don't have a top squad.

If we reach the finals of Europa and Fa cup, that would be a total of 65 games. With a squad of 15 or so (lot of the depth is defenders) with an obvious drop in quality to the others.

I'd imagine we'll become more transition based in the coming weeks, more defensive, less pressing and obviously our form will start to suffer.
 
kouroux said:
I'd have even prefered Bruno as a false 9 and play Sabitzer or McT in midfield. Rashford on the left to run at Trent
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Agree, I still can’t believe he put someone like Bruno on the left who would also cut inside early instead of trying to run at him. Bet arnold couldn’t believe his luck
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Agree, I still can’t believe he put someone like Bruno on the left who would also cut inside early instead of trying to run at him. Bet arnold couldn’t believe his luck
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That's my biggest gripe. Even if we did OK with that set up, it could and should have been better.
 
mav_9me said:
But we don't have a top squad.

If we reach the finals of Europa and Fa cup, that would be a total of 65 games. With a squad of 15 or so (lot of the depth is defenders) with an obvious drop in quality to the others.

I'd imagine we'll become more transition based in the coming weeks, more defensive, less pressing and obviously our form will start to suffer.
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I know we don't have a top squad, that's still a work in progress. I also don't expect more trophies this season for that reason if I'm completely honest.

But what I like is that ten Hag is addressing the mentality right now. The core players are probably tired that is true, but you always have to think you can do more.

If you go into a game believing you are too tired to win it, you already lost it before kick off.
 
I think it’s fine to fully support the guy and be delighted we have him and also criticise him now and then. I thought he got it totally wrong on Sunday.

I have listened to the argument that the tactics were working until we conceded the first goal but I disagree. It was a chance to beat them. We let them play and we didn’t get at them enough. I would have preferred an extra man in MF to free Fred up to charge about madly instead of giving him positional responsibility which he can’t really cope with. To enable this I would have dropped Anthony, played Rash left and Bruno right. Then we’d have Anthony and Garnacho to come on after half time.

But so what? He had his own ideas and my plan might have been even worse.
 
OrcaFat said:
I think it’s fine to fully support the guy and be delighted we have him and also criticise him now and then. I thought he got it totally wrong on Sunday.

I have listened to the argument that the tactics were working until we conceded the first goal but I disagree. It was a chance to beat them. We let them play and we didn’t get at them enough. I would have preferred an extra man in MF to free Fred up to charge about madly instead of giving him positional responsibility which he can’t really cope with. To enable this I would have dropped Anthony, played Rash left and Bruno right. Then we’d have Anthony and Garnacho to come on after half time.

But so what? He had his own ideas and my plan might have been even worse.
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Yeah. Nobody gets it right every time. Ten Hag will do well to be seen as on par with Klopp and Pep by the time he is done, so it's important to acknowledge that they are also great managers who can just simply outcoach you on the day sometimes too (just like Ten Hag outcoached them at Old Trafford). Sometimes the plan just doesn't work. You learn from it.

I'd be concerned if I felt like we were very fortunate in the way we are getting results, in the way we are playing, if I felt like we were at our peak with Ten Hag. But there is a long way to go and you can visibly see how a few signings can transform us. But it's also important to note that Ten Hag himself will have to adapt and learn, which all managers need to do. Luckily, he's shown he is more than capable of that and isn't stubbornly wedded to a specific way even if it fails. He can adapt it.
 
Judas said:
Forever is a mighty long time.
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yeah im not sure i get the theatrics from some. What if we win the europa league, win the FA cup, and finish 3rd in the league to go along with other league cup? People really gonna whine about this one loss to liverpool then? What if next season we win the league and UCL? People still gonna be like well too bad he lost to liverpool bad last season in the league that one time?
 
royboy16 said:
I still think he will do well here but that result will forever put a blemish on his time here.
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Yeah. If that came at the end of a period of dodgy results he could easily be sacked for it. It’s our worst ever defeat of all time so it’s going to be right there on his record. All we can hope for is that it is a footnote when we look back on his glorious tenure in a few years.

When he eventually leaves the club, his send off in the media will mention this no matter what he achieves.
 
sullydnl said:
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A bit concerning if the players act like it’s job done instead of using it as a springboard for better things. At least it’s a warning to the owners, whoever that might be come summer, that the team isn’t there yet.
 
Semigoodlookin said:
People are so trigger-happy with their opinion these days. Just a few weeks ago Klopp was past his best, cursed by a seven-year cycle and running his team into the ground. In fact, Klopp has been written off numerous times this season, a couple of seasons back (when his team lost 7-2 to Villa), and during his first year in charge. Now he is a messiah over ETH, who by the way was a genius three days ago but is now apparetly on the verge of total failure.

Pep has been written off many times during his City career too, including his first year in the job. I blame the media for driving these narratives, which even happens on TV these days. It wasn't too long ago when the ex-pros who make up TV punditry would have a little more nous. Now it is all headline grabbing one-liners and pundits as celebrities. And I include them all in that (including the United legends), they are all talking in soundbites to grab clicks and views. Bunch of assholes the lot of them.

ETH is an elite level manager, of that I have no doubt. If he isn't given the time or resources to win the lot at Manchester United, he will head off and do it somewhere else. He is up there with the best but the job he has at United is big. His success to date has made it seem smaller than it was. Not many coaches land on their feet at the top end of the Premier League. Klopp and Pep didn't. To some degree ETH has because he is delivering probably a best case scenario considering what happened last season.

He shouldn't be let off the hook for his part in the humilation at Liverpool, but he should have more credit in the bank. I have been thinking over the last couple of weeks as the media was fawning over ETH that they were just setting him up tear him down. Anfield on Sunday was one of the strangest games I have seen in some ways. Furthermore, I am not at all convinced it means Liverpool are "back" (whatever that means). Everybody on United's end deserves the backlash from fans, but it does not mean that the ETH project has ground to a halt.
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Sanest, most lucid and rational post by a country mile.
I watched in a pub with my City supporting friend. He was too shocked at what he saw to even take the mickey - that will happen next time we meet.
It was an outlier, a black swan event. Still a healthy third and a trophy won after the utter shambles of last season. Any real fan with an IQ in three figures would have given a limb for that.
 
astracrazy said:
I also saw he wants fans to boo the players and manager at the start of the next home game. Some supporter...
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I love the delusion of fans like him........who talk like they the standard bearers for the club....they the winners.......and the manager and players need to know they won't accept anything less..........peak armchair mindset.



As if hag sitting ok with what he seen the other day, and wants to lower our high standards of no leagues in a decade and pretty bleak trophy haul, the guy who is trying to bring the standards and the winning mindset back to the club. Thank God he got the mostly online fans to remind him what he is at the club for.......incase he forgot
 
sullydnl said:
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Jesus some of ours players who been here years are weak as feck. League cup and Shaw now saying they've took their feet of the gas.

Was expecting a hangover but to word it like that, basically saying they've checked out if I'm reading that right
 
scottser said:
For all the moaning about squad depth, you have to remember that we were denied the opportunity to add significantly to the squad in January while only being given loan signings. While ETH has done wonders with what he has , there must be some difficult conversations had about yesterday. I would expect that a good chunk of the ire and frustration that we feel today is directed at the owners and board for ignoring the manager's needs and not strengthening the squad properly to see out the rest of the season in light of the club's expectations.
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United had a net spend for 230 million Euros this season which is 2nd behind Chelsea. Do you think the coffers are infinite?
 
Stacks said:
United had a net spend for 230 million Euros this season which is 2nd behind Chelsea. Do you think the coffers are infinite?
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No but I expect at board level they would understand that quality replacements for Martial and Eriksen cost money.
 
Three players in this list were against United.

Not an indictment to Ten Hag but a pointer that playing progressive, front foot football, with 2 man midfield will be obliterated by superior players.

Add genuine good 2 Midfielders + 1 Striker we will be a epic team next season.



 
Kanu said:
Sack him and get serial winner Poch in amirite
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I know you're joking but if he'd have lost 4-0 to Brentford, 2-1 to Brighton, 6-3 to City, and 7-0 to Liverpool in his first 10-15 games, he'd be lucky to still be here. If he doesn't stop that from happening he could find himself in a very difficult situation.
 
crossy1686 said:
I know you're joking but if he'd have lost 4-0 to Brentford, 2-1 to Brighton, 6-3 to City, and 7-0 to Liverpool in his first 10-15 games, he'd be lucky to still be here. If he doesn't stop that from happening he could find himself in a very difficult situation.
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But that's not how it works though. Those first two games where a continuation of last season and the City loss was also near the start. Since then he has done fantastic and got us comfortably third in the table. This Liverpool result is terrible but it doesn't change the brilliant job he has done since those first few games. Well see how the team reacts in the next couple of matches but I feel he has earned enough trust from fans for the good job he has done so far.
 
crossy1686 said:
I know you're joking but if he'd have lost 4-0 to Brentford, 2-1 to Brighton, 6-3 to City, and 7-0 to Liverpool in his first 10-15 games, he'd be lucky to still be here. If he doesn't stop that from happening he could find himself in a very difficult situation.
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We won a cup last week. How many does Poch have? Were in top 4 and still in FA Cup and Europe.
 
Matson said:
But that's not how it works though. Those first two games where a continuation of last season and the City loss was also near the start. Since then he has done fantastic and got us comfortably third in the table. This Liverpool result is terrible but it doesn't change the brilliant job he has done since those first few games. Well see how the team reacts in the next couple of matches but I feel he has earned enough trust from fans for the good job he has done so far.
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I'm not saying it is, I'm saying he should be worried if we don't bounce back in the next couple of games because at elite management levels, you don't get many absolute hammerings before people turn on you.
 
Kanu said:
We won a cup last week. How many does Poch have? Were in top 4 and still in FA Cup and Europe.
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I'm not arguing for Poch? I don't want him anywhere near the club. And that's great but we could finish below Liverpool and end the season with just a league cup, which in the grand scheme of things will be a failure considering we have been comfortably in the top 4 all season.
 
sullydnl said:
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There's something really fecking wrong with the mentality of some of our players if they let their standards drop after winning the Carabao Cup. Not that that's suprising, we have seen them play these past years after all.
 
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first title...massive win over Barca.....a let down was coming, it was inevitable after such a highly emotional week. Lads were clearly physically and mentally drained.

Good kick in the ass to push on against Betis and taking care of business before the international break
 
That second half was just an unacceptable display and is worrisome. However, United is still very much a work in progress. The mentality of the players has improved in multiples from the last few years, but it still shows winning a mickey mouse trophy going to their heads means they aren't in the right mental state. ETH has the correct mind set and will correct this, but will take more time.

Also love how ETH isn't letting fatigue be a factor in this failing. No passengers allowed in the XI, as it should be.
 
scottser said:
No but I expect at board level they would understand that quality replacements for Martial and Eriksen cost money.
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Eriksen hasn’t been here a year yet :lol:

We don’t need a replacement, just someone of similar attributes to deputise. A younger model.
 
Ish said:
Yep, and seemingly the players have done exactly that - at least some of them. If that's their mentality, they clearly don't deserve to be at this club.
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Yeah they can lose that lackadaisical attitude straight away or find themselves replaced by the money of Qatari overlords
 
croadyman said:
Yeah they can lose that lackadaisical attitude straight away or find themselves replaced by the money of Qatari overlords
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Yeah, imagine the drop off the following season if any of these lot got near to winning the league or UCL. I shudder to think it!

But I trust in EtH to set it right or identify the ones not fit for purpose and get rid.
 
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