Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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He's had a good start but has started showing a few red flags previous managers showed. Having favourites, buying and persisting with toothless players, being stubborn with team selection, tactical mishaps, putting the blame on players, etc. This Liverpool result seemed like a culmination of quite a few of those.

The key to success for him will be how fast he learns, same as it was for previous managers. As much potential as he seemingly has, he still has it all to prove and nothing is guaranteed (see the likes of Poch and Sarri for examples).
 
I think he got it wrong tactically, but there's absolutely no excuse for this sort of collapse. This is not down on tactics or anything, the players just basically capitulated after the second goal. Even a 3-0 loss wouldn't have been so bad, but anything else after that was basically them just giving up and letting Liverpool score from every attack.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's dumb to sack managers on the back of 1 result because it is important to always look at the big picture. Which in this case is having a, what, 75% win rate as manager here? So yeah. It's easy to ignore the defeat when the rest of the season has been so good. Nothing about our targets this season is impacted by losing yesterday, whether it's 1-0 or 10-0. Not great to lose, even worse to get battered, but like... Our targets are the same. We are still on course to surpass our targets from the start of the season.

Any board that sacks a manager who surpasses all expectations but gets a random really shit result, is a very dumb and reactionary board.

So yes... If Ten Hag had all these results while also having a pretty shit season, then he'd likely get sacked. But when it's a one off, what use is reading into it too much?
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Fully agree.

the thing That concerned me about losing that badly and it not being a normal loss is how it affects the players, hopefully they just kick back on and the Top four target is met.
 
He'sRaldo said:
He's had a good start but has started showing a few red flags previous managers showed. Having favourites
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That would be an issue if it’s true, but it’s hard to know right now if he does have favourites IMO. The squad is very thin on quality options, so he probably feels he has to make use of the players he has. If he’s starting Bruno in the first five games next season, then I’d be worried he does have favourites as I think Bruno is exactly the kind of player ETH has to make use of now, but should want to phase out longer term.

With a new owner, United should be get much quicker at shifting players on. I think that’s where the Glazers have always shown their tightness (rather than with transfer spending)
 
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Firas United said:
After more than 24 hours of yesterday’s disaster the logical opinion is that we are all let down by the players that’s for sure however there are 2 players I’m more disappointed by than the others … I think what happened in Liverpool’s match was the feeling of arrogance from the players and even Ten Hag .. after the long good streak plus defeating Barcelona top of la liga and the comeback Wednesday night against West Ham gave the players the feeling that everything is going their way … it was like this in their minds “missing a change ? No problem we will get another … I’m dispossessed ? No problem we will survive … 1-0 down ? No problem we will come back “ laziness and chaos and untidy positions

Actually I was expecting this slap to happen after the good streak and it is kinda normal with the mentality of the players we have yes they have improved under ETH but let’s not forget that these are almost same players they stopped performing for 2 managers ! 7 months are never enough to clear and switch the mentality of a team and still ETH in this short period of time did much better than I expected when it comes to the mentality … I was hoping this slap not to come towards the end of the season and to happen early if it had to happen and I got what I wanted ( of course to happen against Liverpool is the last thing I ever wanted ) I expected it against Barcelona then before Liverpool match I felt it was coming never expected it that harsh but I felt it

Example of our situation is Pep in his first season as City manager … he took a team which was PL champions 2 years before and after very good streak the players started to feel the arrogance of “ we are champions players - we are under the management of Pep - we will never lose etc “ as a result 4-0 defeat to Barcelona then 4-0 defeat to Everton later that season and 4-2 defeat to Leicester … Pep needed these heavy defeated as City players needed them as we needed that as well … and I hope ETH exploits this situation just like Pep

I trust Ten Hag and how he’s gonna deal with this issue … the upcoming 2 matches against Betis and Southampton are the most important 2 matches in the season imo … to see the reactions of the players , the reactions of ETH and the reactions of the players on ETH’s changes … I’m sure that he will be taking notes in the following 2-3 weeks and in these weeks he will decide who’s gonna be part of the project and who’s not … I’m sure there will be one surprising decision next year and one big superstar at lease won’t be part of the team and of course as everyone knows we need to enter the transfer window and support ETH with at least 4 signings but even with that defeat I never lost the trust in ETH
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Good post. it is a good slap on the face but could have stopped the flow to be a 4-0 defeat rather than 7-0. ETH should have done damage control instead of going full steam ahead. Learning curve. I am sure they took a lot out of this loss than the previous victories.
 
He'sRaldo said:
He's had a good start but has started showing a few red flags previous managers showed. Having favourites, buying and persisting with toothless players, being stubborn with team selection, tactical mishaps, putting the blame on players, etc. This Liverpool result seemed like a culmination of quite a few of those.

The key to success for him will be how fast he learns, same as it was for previous managers. As much potential as he seemingly has, he still has it all to prove and nothing is guaranteed (see the likes of Poch and Sarri for examples).
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Seriously! Some of the posts on here!!!
 
Rightnr said:
This is a dumb post. Not even reactionary.

Liverpool got hammered 6-1 by Stoke for Stevie Me's last game with Klopp in charge.
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This is a dumb post because it's just wrong. Rodgers was manager.
 
I like ETH but this Wout nonsense in Bruno's role has to stop. 4-3-3 would of been the proper formation with Sabitzer/Fred/Casemeio in midfield helping out the full backs. Garnacho/Rashford/Sancho up top.
 
Velvet Revolver said:
Good post. it is a good slap on the face but could have stopped the flow to be a 4-0 defeat rather than 7-0. ETH should have done damage control instead of going full steam ahead. Learning curve. I am sure they took a lot out of this loss than the previous victories.
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I agree … this is one of the points was in my mind but forgot to type it in the post … this is a slap to ETH as well who must learn from what happened … the better manager is the more flexible and reasonable one … he should learn that in England losing big games and big results has bigger impact than he thinks and especially if he’s United manager with all the pundits, fans, haters etc around him and now in his case Ronaldo nonUnited fans are added to the equation
 
Ten Hag will learn that here, for these matches, you have to have a plan of stopping the opposition first and ensuring you select a dynamic fit team for these draining matches.

I back him and he got it wrong on many levels yesterday. From tactics and subs to instructions. He will bounce back I'm confident.
 
Firas United said:
After more than 24 hours of yesterday’s disaster the logical opinion is that we are all let down by the players that’s for sure however there are 2 players I’m more disappointed by than the others … I think what happened in Liverpool’s match was the feeling of arrogance from the players and even Ten Hag .. after the long good streak plus defeating Barcelona top of la liga and the comeback Wednesday night against West Ham gave the players the feeling that everything is going their way … it was like this in their minds “missing a change ? No problem we will get another … I’m dispossessed ? No problem we will survive … 1-0 down ? No problem we will come back “ laziness and chaos and untidy positions

Actually I was expecting this slap to happen after the good streak and it is kinda normal with the mentality of the players we have yes they have improved under ETH but let’s not forget that these are almost same players they stopped performing for 2 managers ! 7 months are never enough to clear and switch the mentality of a team and still ETH in this short period of time did much better than I expected when it comes to the mentality … I was hoping this slap not to come towards the end of the season and to happen early if it had to happen and I got what I wanted ( of course to happen against Liverpool is the last thing I ever wanted ) I expected it against Barcelona then before Liverpool match I felt it was coming never expected it that harsh but I felt it

Example of our situation is Pep in his first season as City manager … he took a team which was PL champions 2 years before and after very good streak the players started to feel the arrogance of “ we are champions players - we are under the management of Pep - we will never lose etc “ as a result 4-0 defeat to Barcelona then 4-0 defeat to Everton later that season and 4-2 defeat to Leicester … Pep needed these heavy defeated as City players needed them as we needed that as well … and I hope ETH exploits this situation just like Pep

I trust Ten Hag and how he’s gonna deal with this issue … the upcoming 2 matches against Betis and Southampton are the most important 2 matches in the season imo … to see the reactions of the players , the reactions of ETH and the reactions of the players on ETH’s changes … I’m sure that he will be taking notes in the following 2-3 weeks and in these weeks he will decide who’s gonna be part of the project and who’s not … I’m sure there will be one surprising decision next year and one big superstar at lease won’t be part of the team and of course as everyone knows we need to enter the transfer window and support ETH with at least 4 signings but even with that defeat I never lost the trust in ETH
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Well said.
Next 2 matches are pivotal in this new era; what is his and our mentality after such a horrifying match? I await a firmly new respionse compared to the soggy breakfasts of recent years.
 
Leftback99 said:
Highlighted on Sky just now how we've only taken 4 points from 8 games against the top 12 away from home (last minute winner at Fulham and draws at Palace and Chelsea). That's really poor with Brighton, Spurs and Newcastle still to come.

Thankfully our home results are much improved from previous seasons.
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Did they borrow Essien's calculator for that one?
 
This is a tactical breakdown on what went wrong at Anfield. I think our man-marking approach works against ’weaker’ teams but our approach against better teams needs to change, especially away from home.




As the MNF graphic showed, our away record against the top 11 team is atrocious. It’s one late draw against Chelsea and a late winner against Fulham, rests are all defeats.
 
Social Faux Pas said:
This is a tactical breakdown on what went wrong at Anfield. I think our man-marking approach works against ’weaker’ teams but our approach against better teams needs to change, especially away from home.




As the MNF graphic showed, our away record against the top 11 team is atrocious. It’s one late draw against Chelsea and a late winner against Fulham, rests are all defeats.
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I was going to watch that last night but I can't stand Jon Mackenzie, he absolutely hates United.
 
Firas United said:
I agree … this is one of the points was in my mind but forgot to type it in the post … this is a slap to ETH as well who must learn from what happened … the better manager is the more flexible and reasonable one … he should learn that in England losing big games and big results has bigger impact than he thinks and especially if he’s United manager with all the pundits, fans, haters etc around him and now in his case Ronaldo nonUnited fans are added to the equation
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I would go one step further and add its not about english league or champions league. Its about control. Control over the game, opponents, emotions time and so on.
 
Berbaclass said:
I was going to watch that last night but I can't stand Jon Mackenzie, he absolutely hates United.
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Yeah that he does. He starts off the video with this smirk on his face wanted to punch him, but he breaks it down quite well. Carragher made a similar point on his MNF analysis.
I think it’s something Ten Hag has to learn. Our approach in big games away from home is too murderballesque.
 
BluesJr said:
Really fecking annoying if true. How can that be the case.
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Might be 21 games in just over 2 months. Always said this schedule will be our undoing. Hope I'm wrong but I can see us having a wobble now. Some of our players look shattered.
 
Social Faux Pas said:
Yeah that he does. He starts off the video with this smirk on his face wanted to punch him, but he breaks it down quite well. Carragher made a similar point on his MNF analysis.
I think it’s something Ten Hag has to learn. Our approach in big games away from home is too murderballesque.
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I saw the Carragher bit and yeah he does have some adapting to do in the big away games. We played really well against Barca obviously but I think those two games + Newcastle took a lot out of the players so I'm not in any sort of rush to start making judgments just yet. They have earned the benefit of my doubt in recent months.

One thing Erik has shown so far is he is absolutely not afraid to change things when he gets it wrong. That gives me a lot of hope going forward.
 
I trust ETH and think he's a great manager, but if he can't handle the ability to down-tool-at-will and still escape criticism of some of our players then I don't think it will end well with him. This is a much harder battle than again the like of CR7 where he has the moral high ground. If you work on social media analysis you will see very clearly who use social media firm to create excuse/driving option.

Maybe it's just me but I find it disgusting how a lot of the focus is on ETH and Bruno after the game, while other players who also show zero desire to do anything in that game escape criticism as usual. Tales as old as time I guess.

Not to mention our easy-to-please fan. Why should our millionaire players care if the fan already "please" with the season? I always said the ambition and standard need to be set from fan->owner->manager->player. Our owner and players (I am not talking about our new ones) are shown to have very little (if not zero) ambition for a long time, so if the fan doesn't want to help ETH in terms of setting ambition/standard, who will?

Basically, ETH will need to be assertive, and the fan needs to get behind him, no matter what.

Acquire Me said:
Some people tend to forget that many of the players were used to give up in matches. They were serial losers and had the ability to swallow humiliation time after time.
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Exactly. And similar to the winner attitude, the loser attitude is also highly contagious.
 
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He got a shovel in the face. The ones Mourinho and Van Gaal got early on. Where he's realised this club tends to signt he spineless in blunk and they have to try and get rid without bringing in more to add to them.
 
SirMonteyne said:
I don't like how he's blaming the players for this loss. Hopefully, it won't backfire.
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I dont know what else he can do. At this stage of Fergie's career, he got battered with Aberdeen and had the players running through the down centre. If you genuinely think your players have tossed it off, they deserve it. Its not a 1-0 loss at home to Fulham. Its the worst result in decades.
 
Some people tend to forget that many of the players were used to give up in matches. They were serial losers and had the ability to swallow humiliation time after time.

In my opinion we did witness that type of behaviour against Liverpool. I got the feeling after they scored the first goal it would be horrible. Blast from the past.

Erik ten Hag called the performance unprofessional and not worthy Manchester United. He also said we are going to use the sports psychologist more.

We can all agree on the unprofessional performance and that this was not worthy our club. But I think that it’s spot on that some of the players need some consoling. It’s no doubt we are much better as a team under EtH and some of the players we never wanted to see play again are back on track, but the issue now for me is when things go sideways. When it does, we fall back to old habits and it can really fast get ugly.
 
Berbaclass said:
I was going to watch that last night but I can't stand Jon Mackenzie, he absolutely hates United.
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Tom Van Persie said:
Leeds fan.
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Huh that explains a lot. I stopped watching his videos entirely because I felt he was obviously biased against United. He wasn't even one of the actual tacticians for a fair bit, Alex Stewart and the other guy did the work and they are pretty good.
 
Teja said:
Huh that explains a lot. I stopped watching his videos entirely because I felt he was obviously biased against United. He wasn't even one of the actual tacticians for a fair bit, Alex Stewart and the other guy did the work and they are pretty good.
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Yeah I will watch their videos when JJ does them but not that cnut. Was sneering at us a last week I think after Newcastle on their podcast.
 
FujiVice said:
I dont know what else he can do. At this stage of Fergie's career, he got battered with Aberdeen and had the players running through the down centre. If you genuinely think your players have tossed it off, they deserve it. Its not a 1-0 loss at home to Fulham. Its the worst result in decades.
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It would have been better for him to talk about this in the dressing room rather than publicly blame the players. Because he does it every time we lose. As we examine the match in detail, it becomes clear that ETH made a mistake. There are players like Casemiro and Varane who are the highest-profile players in this team, but fans see ETH as some school teacher of a bunch of kids, and ETH also acts publicly like this. If he really needs to do this publicly, then he needs to man up and admit his faults too. The loss of Casemiro and Varane's trust would be devastating for ETH.
 
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