4-2-3-1 needs to die.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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What's there to take from your post? It's basically just another Ole crusade because you feel like he was hard done by when he had the same sort of result.
The fact of the matter is we are trying to compete on equal footing with the best teams at their own ground, and when it went wrong, it can go horifically wrong, but beyond bragging rights, it has feck all to do with the progress we are having as a team. 3 weeks ago we were the better team against the likely Spanish champions in their own ground in a game widely praised as one of the best European game in recent memory, I don't recall seeing a lot of comments about naivety and how we should've shut up shop and play on the counter.
Bruno has a habit of showing petulance and it’s really frustrating to watch so god knows what his team mates think. Even yesterday, his antic probably encourage the crowd even more which has a negative effect. Great player but seems such a child at times and I don’t think he should be captain.
I agree it's more on the good side than bad side of the good bad spectrum but it's not really a good performance from the team.
First 25 minutes was almost all Liverpool. We got a bit fighting back for the rest of the half, despite the chances like Rashford tame shot, Bruno's header from Dalot cross, Antony's attempt (Bruno and Antony one vs one likely offside), we didn't have control of the game. And Liverpool had enough quality to punish us, which they did. It was not simply individual mistakes. That first goal was Klopp picking ETH pressing set up apart.
We had 10 out field players, but Varane and Martinez was occupied by Nunez. Shaw by Salah. ETH made our midfielders to man mark Liverpool 3. That left 4 players to press/mark 6 players on Liverpool sides (Alisson was active on his play making duty). Alisson was the one stepping out of his penalty box to make a line breaking pass (registered as key pass) to Robertson. Robertson then registered the assist for Gakpo goal. Our high press was bypass, leaving our midfield wide open, and Gakpo unmarked.
Weghorst did a nice thing individually, but overall his tactical contribution is on the bad side IMO. He's neither quick enough to get back to help when Liverpool direct quick transition beat our pressing, then he's not anywhere close to support our attack. He didn't play as CF so Martial out injured is a lazy excuse for him to start. Could have used Sabitzer, McTominay to help with the midfield. Other players made mistake and took a beatings this game. Weghorst escaped the criticism because he's slow and out of the picture during most of important action. Shifting players around to shoehorn him IMO cost us tactically. Unlike other games, Liverpool killed this game so early in second half, so we not only unable to rescue the game, but got worse after subbing Weghorst.
ETH managed the season and the congested schedule great, but in this defeat he made the issue out for himself and the team with that midfield. It's just one game, but this heavy defeat unfortunately went to record book, and this run of bad result at Anfield may be a psychological disadvantage for us in the future when they have a better season, and their players playing consistently like they did this game.
Amen
I wish we would just play 433 and be done with it
What is a Ole crusade? I literally praise Ten Hag. Are you looking for a echo chamber?
Back to ONE HAG!
It's crazy how we literally played out best football against the top teams under multiple managers with some of these same players and yet we go back to this formation time and again.
I don’t understand it, I remember Jose used it a few times with Pogba, Herrera and Carrick we played well then he ditched it and went back to 4231.
It’s just one game yes, but a really bad one to fall to pieces in. It’s hugely important now that ETH builds the confidence up again and we do not let this game interfere with the progress we’ve made. It hurts like hell though.
Oh I'm sorry, were you not in here all of last season poo-pooing any suggestion about Ole being a terrible coach?
And just look at the Weghorst thread to see if I'm part of the crowd, so no, I don't mindlessly praise EtH either. In fact, I have often been dead against a lot of Caf darlings when their transfer were mooted e.g Lukaku, Maguire, Mkhitaryan, AWB, so it's a funny accusation.
This
Extending Bruno contract so the chance for 4-3-3 is dead. He's not a real midfielder. So the double pivot is needed to balance out his tendency for quick fast.
In this game issue is more about having Weghorst that couldn't contribute as that no 10 role, and Bruno was shifted to the left and negated his influence. Not even play the 42-3-1 properly.
I have not in any way shape of form said that Ten Hag is a terrible coach. Even a bad one. I gave a list of issues that needs adressing. Those do not indicate that Ten Hag is a bad manager, they are just points that needs improving in the squad.
I have been plenty critical of Ole for playing Maguire when he decided to go from reliable to worst in the league for instance.
It’s a freak result considering our recent form. If you can beat Barca over 2 legs you can beat Liverpool. Any team that has 8 shots and scores 7 is likely to inflict an embarrassing loss on the opposing team. Once you go 3-0 down in those conditions teams can crumble and we did.
indykaila being posted in 2023 is staggering.
Feels like a decade back when everyone knew that was a shit source
I guess it depends on your expectations going into an away match at Liverpool. Your comment about the Jose game vs Klopp's pool, for me in my lifetime, apart from the LVG win, I don't really recall games where we went to Anfield and took it too them in terms of controlling the game. Yeah away to a Fulham or a Brentford I would expect us to control the game (which we didn't which I would call out), but away to Liverpool? I would never have expected us to do that. So for me what I saw in that first half was us doing our job, stifle Pool's early pressure (which pool did vs Real and scored 2 goals), and then slowly started to get to grips with the game up until the goal. Up until that Gakpo goal in my head I was content/happy with the performance based on the context of our schedule, our squad etc. Even at half time based on that performance I thought with ETH's ability to read games and make changes we would be able to give it a good fight in the second half, and if we lost 1 0 or 2 0/ 2 1 then so be it as much much better united teams than us at the peak of their powers have lost at Anfield to much much worse liverpool teams.
With regard to the psychological effect, we will see next season when we hopefully have better players, less gaps and a squad that can handle a hectic season. The liverpool spanking last year didn't psychologically stop us beating them this season at Old Trafford, the City spanking last season and at the Etihad didn't stop us beating them at Old Trafford. The (very small) dataset that we have of Ten Hag as united manager is that he can pick the team up after a defeat, even embarrassing ones like City away and Brentford to then go on winning runs. The history books will say pool beat united 7-0, but if at the end of the season we have qualified easily for champions league, won 2-3 trophies and liverpool don't get top 4, then they can have their 7 0.
We did so increasingly as the first half went on, and especially early in the second half before it fell apart. We were trying to pressure them and open them up. See how many of the goals came as a result of our fullbacks getting caught too high and their attackers going 1v1 with our centre backs.
Feels like ETH told them to keep it tight for the first 30 mins to soak up the early pressure before opening up and playing, but he didn't realise against us Liverpool will play their hearts out all day.
Aargh, the flip side of caring about this team again means i am hurting this morning/today, FFS.
We had such an unlikeable bunch for a while, and losing tended to not hurt this much. Oh well, it's only 3 points at the end of the day. Silver linings.
We had such an unlikeable bunch for a while, and losing tended to not hurt this much. Oh well, it's only 3 points at the end of the day. Silver linings.
Isn't he banned on the caf?
Unfortunately, it'll be an issue with the new regime as well because taking away the sort of power he's been given will be a point of contention. He might just have to go when the new DOF comes in under new ownership to give them a clean slate in terms of the structure they want.
This is what was disappointing. You need players to take a look at 1, 2-0 and say '...right, we kill this game, slow it down, just nullify their threat... because we will get chances...' Instead, we got sucked into schoolboy football, we need to get back in the game as quickly as possible, football. At 3-0, there was till over 20 minutes left, maybe more.
This is where we need help for Casimero (he cannot do it all...).
I could go on, but I'm really annoyed at what happened yesterday. Unprofessional is the perfect description.
So what's exactly the point of pointing out 3 losses by 4 goals or more this season as some sort of inherent issue? The fact of the matter is elite teams have been on the receiving end of these blowout quite a lot in recent years, Liverpool themselves just got pasted 2-5 against Madrid, Barca has the Remontada and the Roma/Liverpool result, it's not good when you are on the receiving end of it, but unless you play like the Atletico of the world, you are vulnerable to days when your defence got exploited over and over like that.
What I do think is patently clear by now is despite all the over the top praise, our team is still nowhere drilled enough compared to the big teams in the league in high pressure matches like this. It takes a few more signings and time on the training pitch - which we don't have right now, to get there. You look at the cohesion and relentless pressure a young Arsenal team can apply in most of their matches, after being the butt of joke past 3 years, including a few pastings themselves, and you'd think it's worth the growing pains.
How could United lose to this crappy liverpool team? let alone losing 0-7 
.
There's something wrong with these set of players. 4-0 Brentford, 6-3 City (could've been worst), 7-0 Liverpool. What's next? Spurs & Brighton going to smash us 4-0 as well?
Don't get me wrong. ETH got some wrong this game too but not to the manner that would've made us lose more than 2 goal margin. Some players clearly don't have the mentality to play at big club despite of what have been showed. This attitude doesn't win you major trophies. The next transfer window is important.
.There's something wrong with these set of players. 4-0 Brentford, 6-3 City (could've been worst), 7-0 Liverpool. What's next? Spurs & Brighton going to smash us 4-0 as well?
Don't get me wrong. ETH got some wrong this game too but not to the manner that would've made us lose more than 2 goal margin. Some players clearly don't have the mentality to play at big club despite of what have been showed. This attitude doesn't win you major trophies. The next transfer window is important.
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It might well be unwanted power, but it might be a point of contention. If it is and he disagrees, so be it, he is after all just a high-ranking employee.
This was what you originally said
City, Liverpool and Brentford. 3 out of 42 games. That is not a lot.
Before Liverpool’s first goal we had two GLORIOUS chances!
Bruno had the header that went wide and then Rashford had his chance from Shaws’s great pass.
In different circumstances ETH’s tactics put us 2-0 up at Anfield inside of 35mins.
The only way I can find any solace after yesterday's result is in the hope that Erik will react in the strongest possible way. Hoping he really digs into the players after that complete shambles.
Huge test for the manager now; the reaction in the next few games needs to be clear to see.
Huge test for the manager now; the reaction in the next few games needs to be clear to see.
Yea i would concur with this. I just hope it doesnt derail our season. We need a reaction on Thursday.
Bad day at the office.
Still believe and back the manager 110%.
Still believe and back the manager 110%.
Maybe he did, but managers can be stubborn and will only learn after repeatedly doing the same mistake.
ETH’s comments before the game something along the lines … same ball, same pitch … suggested he didn’t think it would be different to other away grounds or big games.
Feels like a decade back when everyone knew that was a shit source
Because it IS more than a decade since everyone realised that.
ETH? I know it was bad yesterday but that's a bit drastic.
- tactics were not that bad, considering 1st half
- Weghorst is quite known for his defending, I fail to see how replacing him with someone else would suddenly makes us concede less goals. Weghorst might be responsible for the 0-side of the score, not the 7.
- we're losing too much when playing away
my 2 cents: ETH is a good motivator and has been pushing them to the limit (or actually past it). Players have been following him, ignoring any physical or mental tiredness. After the 3-0 they just gave up. It's completely human I would say, just not very professional.
Not preparing them for this scenario might be something that ETH should be blamed for, not whether he put player A or B in position X or Y. There just has to be an agreement with the players that after 3-0 down they switch to a "park the bus" scenario, regardless who is on the pitch.
- Weghorst is quite known for his defending, I fail to see how replacing him with someone else would suddenly makes us concede less goals. Weghorst might be responsible for the 0-side of the score, not the 7.
- we're losing too much when playing away
my 2 cents: ETH is a good motivator and has been pushing them to the limit (or actually past it). Players have been following him, ignoring any physical or mental tiredness. After the 3-0 they just gave up. It's completely human I would say, just not very professional.
Not preparing them for this scenario might be something that ETH should be blamed for, not whether he put player A or B in position X or Y. There just has to be an agreement with the players that after 3-0 down they switch to a "park the bus" scenario, regardless who is on the pitch.
Disagree.
I don't need 60% possession but I want us to go toe to toe at Anfield. That's the day we know we are at a great level.
I have zero doubts on that. If he doesn't see it that way, then he will be gone in due course.
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