The Palace one was unfortunate. Didn't expect a win against Arsenal away.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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It’s tough of course considering we played two games every week for so long. It’s ok. I still think this season is a weird one. We are not completely shut out of the possibility I feel.
Yeah I said it yesterday we need to get within 3 points of top spot having played same number of games to really threaten
Yeah. But at that point, it’s not only threatening but the mental storm to the rivals.
Maybe it could be argued that 5/6 points would give us a bit of vested interest in Arsenal v City
Thank good for him, so I doesn't have to read about "foundations", "three year plan" and "transition".
You got it or you doesn't. We wasted 10 years and more than a billon on frauds and past it managers.
And he made Fergie smilling again.
You got it or you doesn't. We wasted 10 years and more than a billon on frauds and past it managers.
And he made Fergie smilling again.
Yeah he seems to thrive being in control of the club, with Bayern it will never happen.
Technical error HEH? He should have said he had to finish washing his hair. HEH?
He made me feel emotionally invested in the club in a way I haven't in what feels like forever. Dropping those late points against Palace and Arsenal felt like a gut punch worse than those 4-0, 5-0 defeats against Liverpool and 1-6 vs Spurs.
Nothing can be worse than the home defeat by scouse... that was the lowest point for me
You can see by the way he speaks how invested and passionate he is about his managerial role and his attention to detail must be fantastic. Really hope we can finish the season strong and build a solid squad to challenge for the title next season. If we can get ourselves back in the picture this season then that's a bonus!
His awkwardness in English coupled with his direct yet sensitive answers to the press are somehow working in tandem for him. Honestly I've never enjoyed a manager this much.
(Fergie I dont consider a manager, he is the godfather of this club)
(Fergie I dont consider a manager, he is the godfather of this club)
Is this year the closest we’ve come to a title challenge? I mean I know we’ve finished 2nd under Ole and mourinho but being like 15 pts behind or something.
Its actually quite refreshing how he deals with the media. They almost feel like they cannot get anything out of him. He speaks direct and answers every question directly.
You’re forgetting it’s Arsenal, would probably take a lot less than 3 points to see them crack. Titles have been won from much further back than 3 points.
That said, it’s pretty pointless worrying about it now, there’s genuinely too many games to think about what other teams are doing. We have a bunch of injuries, two games against the best team in La Liga, plus a final against Newcastle, all extra to what Arsenal are dealing with.
A lot of absences to deal with in the next few games. Have to say none of his reign so far has been settled at all but he's done brilliantly to deal with it. Next 3 and Barca could be a potential season destroyer but hopefully we can get the results in the Leeds game and Leicester to have a free crack at an in form Barca. Top 4 this season and hopefully a cup and then hopefully we can go into next year with a much more settled situation, with a better squad, less injuries and much less off the pitch distractions.
So happy to see SAF happy. And no doubt the person who brings smile to him is the future.
Nailed on to go to Bayern.
He wont leave until hes conquered PL and Europe with United
I hope so. Unless he doesn‘t get the support needed. Then its byebye.
I highly doubt. He is building something great here. He will continue.
The Premier League is where it's at.
I recently saw a video of Xavi explaining his tactics at Al Sadd. The way he talked about that he loves possession made me think of the difference between LVG and ETH. They both really like possession, but LVG loves possession and ETH likes possession. While LVG does get angry with his players when the ball doesn't move up fast enough, with ETH (almost) every pass needs a purpose. You can pass backwards, but if it's not to cool down or something, it's just a pass for passing sake. I think that's the difference between ETH and other Dutch coaches. Frank de Boer and Schreuder are probably most obvious comparisons, where they'll use practically the same squads, but they've lost all their grit. It can work, like Schreuder versus Rangers, or Frank de Boer with his consecutive championships, but hot dang it's boring and so far it looks like it won't get you anywhere at the higher levels of football. So, LVG can complain about the pace all he wants, but if he views dominance as a ball possession number, then his strategy will reflect ball retention over dominance moving forward anytime.
If not losing the ball is more important than moving up front, the fear to lose the ball will be too dang high.
ETH loves Dutch football, but I think for him it's more about dominance in its broadest sense and creativity, and not about 70% possession. I think he'd rather emulate Simeone's peak with 30% possession but still feeling unbeatable, and every move forward is a very good one, than he would 80% FDB Ajax but all the legs are shaking. Thank god his baseline isn't Simeone's baseline, though, and in my opinion that offers a much more resilient side, too, since he's never too afraid to attack, while taking all the aspects of the game very, very seriously.
TLDR: 58% possession ETH > 62% LVG any day.
Premier. Bundesleague
Still a chance we get another chance to get close but entirely relies on favours
Not giving up until mathematically impossible
Indeed. If Arsenal crumble in their two games against City we're back in it.
I completely agree.
LVG was a great coach in his days but he got left behind with the times, and the new breed of manager/coach meant that LVG's on the ball philosophy wasn't enough on its own to thwart the high intensity play-styles that were starting to take hold around 10 to 12 years ago. And LVG himself would lose a league title to a Dortmund team led by Jurgen Klopp, who implemented a very direct attacking approach with a big emphasis on pressing and counter pressing with high intensity and dynamic off the ball movement in the final third.
Coaches like ten Hag don't set their teams up to control possession, but rather they set their teams up to progress play effectively from the defensive third via the positional play principles (Juego de Posicion). So it's about occupying zones/spaces to create the triangles (rondos), which will lead to zonal and positional control over the opponent. Every pass has a purpose and that purpose is to get the ball through the thirds as quick as possible and hurt the opponent. And at times we see opponent's defending deep with numbers, and the overload/underload method is utilised where passes from side to side of the pitch are used to overload one side and open space on the otherside to isolate a particular weakness in the opponent's defensive structure.
The major difference between ten Hag and a LVG is their approach to the game, where ten Hag aims to progress play vertically via the positional play principles, strong off the ball dynamic movement in the final third and a high intensity off the ball pressing and counter pressing game to offset the risk of playing the game in the opponent's half. LVG on the other hand became very risk averse and he didn't develop a proactive off the ball approach to defending, which meant his approach became reactive rather than proactive even with high possession stats.
Love this for so many reasons, firstly apologising for being late, then knowing Simon Stone's name already, this is the type of thing Fergie would do. This man is just right
This year after 21 games, we are 8 pts behind the leader with an extra game played. In 2021 after 21 games, we were 3 pts behind the leader in a similar situation. So we were closer then. But all depends on the next 17 games. The next game then, we won 9-0, so we’re not going to overtake that this weekend.
Funnily, back then, we were in a similar position in all cups, except that we’d just lost the league cup SF to City were we now beat Forest. Then again, we had wins against Real Sociedad away (4-0), City away (2-0), Milan away (1-0), Rome at home (6-2) and an EL final to look forward to, so the season wasn’t over by any means.
If you read Van Gaal‘s book you know the principles are the same.
It is true he became very risk averse at MU. He could not trust his defense, the temporary solution was to not lose the ball.
At the end of his second season, MU was not playing possession football anymore.
Also, y’all need to realise that Van Gaal did not have the Dutch national team play possession style football right before taking the job at MU and recently. To say he was stuck in the past is not accurate.
He tried to have MU play possession style football and it did not work. Simple.
I'm not sure what are these principles you are referring to but imo not every thing called ''possession'' should be considered same or similar.
LVG played too many sideways and backwards when he was with us, while ETH's approach is more progressive. By playing more progressive, there is higher risk to lose the ball in a reckless manner and I thought this is something that LVG didn't want at United. But ETH has no issue to lose the ball in that manner because ETH demands his players to press intensively and win the second ball to retain the possession back.
I haven't read all of his book, but the principles of play aren't the same when compared to ten Hag and I've explained the differences in my previous post. But if he means the principles of play as far occupying zones and spaces, then yes there's a similarity which stems from Rinus Michels. But there's so much more within those principles which is very different, and I've already explained the differences from my pov.
He approached the world cup in 2014, with a reactive approach, which was designed to play to the strengths of Robben and Van Persie. Which is understandable due to the lack of quality in the Dutch team at the time.
He did make Man Utd play possession football. But that possession football was 'possession without purpose' and with a absence of a high intensity off the ball pressing structure.
Well, let’s see what he does here first. Then, if things go well, how much he enjoys being at United.
The principles are the same but the implementation makes a world of difference. When are players allowed to take risks? How fast do you go forwards? When is it okay to go long? How aggressively do you counter press when you engage?
LvG was a long time ago but here's what I can vaguely recall.
I don't remember many times where a high turnover forced a goal. And I don't really think we engaged in a high press as we see it today, it was mostly a Moyes style mid block with Rooney leading the press. Once the ball was won, the emphasis was on retaining it. Guys like Di Maria would've loved the amount of freedom that Antony has now.
To be fair to LvG, Pep himself wasn't an aggressive counter pressing vertical play kinda guy with his dominant Barca side. That movement kicked off in Germany and Klopp brought it to England. No other side in England played that way.
Also please don't bring up his dutch side. They were boring AF and played mostly similar to how United played.
That is mostly correct. The line of where the press began is not the same for every game or every phase of a game with Van Gaal, but I also remember pressing started around 60-70 meters most of the time.
Our ability to transition quickly was not good with many players too slow on the ball, for example Mata. Van Gaal knew how to get his team to play out quickly, which he did against Spain in the world cup. Not boring, but spectacular.
The narrative that Van Gaal was behind the times is bs and needs to die.
In the final third we could not be creative enough. Not enough chances created, not enough goals. That is were the risk taking should occur in Van Gaal‘s philosophy.
My take is, Van Gaal failed to implement his ideas onto the MU players. His own failures, signings that did not work out and players that couldn‘t do what he asked.
These days, teams play high intensively pressure. Hence why Barcelona have abandoned the concept of total control and instead they are now trying to switch their focus/basis on intensive pressure under Xavi. On contrary, LVG is still stuck with the concept of his total control and he couldn't structure his team to do high intensively pressure. Even in Netherlands World Cup, often the team couldn't keep possession due to playing against teams that can press and they also couldn't win the ball back because LVG couldn't or didn't know how to structure his team to do high intensively pressure to retain possession. In this argument, it's fair to say LVG football style was behind the times.
There is over a two month gap between those games where we have to play likes of scousers,Brighton & Newcastle away
I like the fact that with ETH style of play we’re able to open up defensive teams, which is something we struggled with last season but that was down to playing counter attacking football. When you only know one way of playing it makes it very difficult for you in different situations which is why Solskjær often got a result against city as they had a lot of space for us to counter into. ETH has changed us so much and we’re looking stronger then ever.. there’s a toughness about the squad and they’re all fighting for each other and enjoying playing. This is also down to ETH signings, he’s signed leaders and warriors that will help us fight for everything and that rubs off on other players.
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