Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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UNITED ACADEMY said:
These days, teams play high intensively pressure. Hence why Barcelona have abandoned the concept of total control and instead they are now trying to switch their focus/basis on intensive pressure under Xavi. On contrary, LVG is still stuck with the concept of his total control and he couldn't structure his team to do high intensively pressure. Even in Netherlands World Cup, often the team couldn't keep possession due to playing against teams that can press and they also couldn't win the ball back because LVG couldn't or didn't know how to structure his team to do high intensively pressure to retain possession. In this argument, it's fair to say LVG football style was behind the times.
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How did Spain do at the last WC?

At the world cup in 2014, Holland played a pragmatic, tough to beat setup. They best teams better than them. LvG was what made the difference: his tactics, subs.

At the last WC, he didn’t lose a game either.

It is bollocks to say LvG was behind the times at any time.
 
DJ_21 said:
I like the fact that with ETH style of play we’re able to open up defensive teams, which is something we struggled with last season but that was down to playing counter attacking football. When you only know one way of playing it makes it very difficult for you in different situations which is why Solskjær often got a result against city as they had a lot of space for us to counter into. ETH has changed us so much and we’re looking stronger then ever.. there’s a toughness about the squad and they’re all fighting for each other and enjoying playing. This is also down to ETH signings, he’s signed leaders and warriors that will help us fight for everything and that rubs off on other players.
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So true,just need to take some of those solid Old Trafford performances on the road to stay in top 3,perhaps maybe second
 
NLunited said:
How did Spain do at the last WC?

At the world cup in 2014, Holland played a pragmatic, tough to beat setup. They best teams better than them. LvG was what made the difference: his tactics, subs.

At the last WC, he didn’t lose a game either.

It is bollocks to say LvG was behind the times at any time.
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You can play shit football in modern football and still didn't lose a game or even win in modern football.

When I watched the matches in the last WC, I saw Netherlands as team that being dominated by others. For example: Netherlands won 3-1 vs USA, yet USA had more shots and possession. Another example: Ecuador was able to have 15 shots while Netherlands only had 2 shots. You might think, who cares they won the match and that's what matter in football. That's true, his team won the matches and that's what matter in football. However, the argument wasn't about lose, win or draw but whether LVG football style was behind the times. Did he win those matches with the way how LVG wants his team to play his total football? I don't think so.

Those two examples vs USA and Ecuador are reflection of how LVG couldn't implement his system/principles. He was behind the times that he was forced to play like Mourinho type of football.

Unless you're telling me that LVG football is Mourinho type of football, sit back and counter?

In a summary, the way how LVG's team played in the last WC is more identical to Mourinho and far far away from ETH.
 
Teja said:
To be fair to LvG, Pep himself wasn't an aggressive counter pressing vertical play kinda guy with his dominant Barca side. That movement kicked off in Germany and Klopp brought it to England. No other side in England played that way.

Also please don't bring up his dutch side. They were boring AF and played mostly similar to how United played.
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But that Barca side's pressing was wayyy better than whatever LVG cooked up.
 
NLunited said:
If you read Van Gaal‘s book you know the principles are the same.

It is true he became very risk averse at MU. He could not trust his defense, the temporary solution was to not lose the ball.
At the end of his second season, MU was not playing possession football anymore.

Also, y’all need to realise that Van Gaal did not have the Dutch national team play possession style football right before taking the job at MU and recently. To say he was stuck in the past is not accurate.

He tried to have MU play possession style football and it did not work. Simple.
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Van Gaal should have been given the job in 2013 instead of Moyes. The football would have been similar but he would have at least kept us challenging for a period.

Our biggest issue post Fergie was not having any kind of style/identity and quickly moving from one style to another and having a mish mask of a squad from different coaches.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
You can play shit football in modern football and still didn't lose a game or even win in modern football.

When I watched the matches in the last WC, I saw Netherlands as team that being dominated by others. For example: Netherlands won 3-1 vs USA, yet USA had more shots and possession. Another example: Ecuador was able to have 15 shots while Netherlands only had 2 shots. You might think, who cares they won the match and that's what matter in football. That's true, his team won the matches and that's what matter in football. However, the argument wasn't about lose, win or draw but whether LVG football style was behind the times. Did he win those matches with the way how LVG wants his team to play his total football? I don't think so.

Those two examples vs USA and Ecuador are reflection of how LVG couldn't implement his system/principles. He was behind the times that he was forced to play like Mourinho type of football.

Unless you're telling me that LVG football is Mourinho type of football, sit back and counter?

In a summary, the way how LVG's team played in the last WC is more identical to Mourinho and far far away from ETH.
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The match against Equador we did not deserve to win, all the other games we deserved to win. The US did not stand a chance.

Van Gaal knew he couldn’t play total footbal in 2014 and 2022 with the available players and did not. If you believe otherwise, you are naive.

LvG football is not one thing, that is what you lot fail to understand. He wanted to win the last WC and had the team play in a way that gave them a shot at it.

If you have been watching Ten Hag, you know that dominating a game does not depend on possession stats, shots and those sorts of things.

Ten Hag has been quite pragmatic, actually more like Van Gaal at the Dutch national team than Guardiola, Arteta or any other progressive coach with a possession style.

He has MU playing to its strengths, not towards a blueprint of an ideal total football style or something. We excel in fast transition play and are getting better at playing out from the back. The attacking phase is still a work in progress, we are not yet creating enough. But most can see where it is going and are happy with the progress. The progress has been incredible really.
 
LVG was sacked at both Bayern and United. At Bayern he lost the league to a emerging Jurgen Klopp, who won the league after implementing a high intensity proactive attacking playstyle with high pressing and counter pressing at its core.

So it's not a surprise he settled into life as a national team manager due to international football being more suited to him as a coach in the present day. There's a big difference between preparing a team for a cup tournament than preparing a team for the premier league over 38 games. The new breed of manager was something Van Gaal tried adapting to, but it wasn't enough in a league format and Jurgen Klopp and Dortmund was the beginning of the end of LVG in a major European league.
 
Grande said:
This year after 21 games, we are 8 pts behind the leader with an extra game played. In 2021 after 21 games, we were 3 pts behind the leader in a similar situation. So we were closer then. But all depends on the next 17 games. The next game then, we won 9-0, so we’re not going to overtake that this weekend.

Funnily, back then, we were in a similar position in all cups, except that we’d just lost the league cup SF to City were we now beat Forest. Then again, we had wins against Real Sociedad away (4-0), City away (2-0), Milan away (1-0), Rome at home (6-2) and an EL final to look forward to, so the season wasn’t over by any means.
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Worth remembering that the 2021 trophy got away because Manchester City went on a club record breaking winning streak the rest of the season after having appeared vulnerable before. Are City and Arsenal going to keep it up? They both lost over the weekened.
 
Adnan said:
LVG was sacked at both Bayern and United. At Bayern he lost the league to a emerging Jurgen Klopp, who won the league after implementing a high intensity proactive attacking playstyle with high pressing and counter pressing at its core.

So it's not a surprise he settled into life as a national team manager due to international football being more suited to him as a coach in the present day. There's a big difference between preparing a team for a cup tournament than preparing a team for the premier league over 38 games. The new breed of manager was something Van Gaal tried adapting to, but it wasn't enough in a league format and Jurgen Klopp and Dortmund was the beginning of the end of LVG in a major European league.
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Tbf it’s worth mentioning that Van Gaal also did a very impressive job with AZ Alkmaar not too far back, even breaking the big 3 stranglehold winning the league with AZ only six years before he came to United, and that is a very different kettle of fiah to International tournaments qualifications and finals. I prefer Ten Hag to Van Gaal as a coach for quality and even more for style, but when many here talk about Van Gaal as a dinosaur or behind the times, it’s fair to point out that he still was a very, very good coach in 2015, and I think all in all, he still is better than most big 5 league managers/coaches and NT coaches.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
I know that it is always easier to ignore oppo fans opinion but it is very nice to read what they think about our manager now.
During Solskjaer era they were delighted that we have Ole but now, even deluded bunch from rawk, think that ETH is excellent manager.

Give this man top class striker and one more midfielder and we will fight for title next year
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When you’re right, you’re right.
 
Grande said:
Tbf it’s worth mentioning that Van Gaal also did a very impressive job with AZ Alkmaar not too far back, even breaking the big 3 stranglehold winning the league with AZ only six years before he came to United, and that is a very different kettle of fiah to International tournaments qualifications and finals. I prefer Ten Hag to Van Gaal as a coach for quality and even more for style, but when many here talk about Van Gaal as a dinosaur or behind the times, it’s fair to point out that he still was a very, very good coach in 2015, and I think all in all, he still is better than most big 5 league managers/coaches and NT coaches.
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He won the league at AZ playing counter attacking football from what I've read. And even Steve McLaren managed to win a league with FC Twente a few years later.

I didn't say he was a dinosaur but rather his approach to the game didn't evolve. And that meant he struggled to impose his style against the new breed of managers who were looking to play the game in the opponent's half via pressing and counter pressing.

And I was someone who wanted LVG to replace Moyes. But I was wrong because the landscape in the league was beginning to change and the new breed of manager was starting to become mainstream.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
The more we win, the more confidence we gain. The fact is, after that blip vs Palace and Arsenal, we've won 3 in a row and are looking good yet again.
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Its a feed forward cycle. Winning breeds confidence and confidence gets you wins. Mental strength is how you cope and respond to defeat. It’s remarkable to think that we are used to not losing so often once again. We may have a new king eric if we ever win epl again.
 
Adnan said:
He won the league at AZ playing counter attacking football from what I've read. And even Steve McLaren managed to win a league with FC Twente a few years later.

I didn't say he was a dinosaur but rather his approach to the game didn't evolve. And that meant he struggled to impose his style against the new breed of managers who were looking to play the game in the opponent's half via pressing and counter pressing.

And I was someone who wanted LVG to replace Moyes. But I was wrong because the landscape in the league was beginning to change and the new breed of manager was starting to become mainstream.
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I think that is bollocks: he has shown to be very adaptable, playing both counter attack and possession football depending on the players at his disposal.

When he beat Liverpool and City in the league, was that him struggling to adapt? Or beating Arsenal with a bunch of academy players?

Which MU manager has switched formations as much as he did? He has played 433, 4231, 442, 4141, 3232, 532 and more.

He tried to build something from the ground up at MU and failed at it, but not because he was behind the times. He was the right manager, but at the wrong time.

Thank our lucky stars Ten Hag was able to turn it around after the two losses at the beginning of the season. It could have easily gone dreadfully wrong.
 
NLunited said:
I think that is bollocks: he has shown to be very adaptable, playing both counter attack and possession football depending on the players at his disposal.

When he beat Liverpool and City in the league, was that him struggling to adapt? Or beating Arsenal with a bunch of academy players?

Which MU manager has switched formations as much as he did? He has played 433, 4231, 442, 4141, 3232, 532 and more.

He tried to build something from the ground up at MU and failed at it, but not because he was behind the times. He was the right manager, but at the wrong time.

Thank our lucky stars Ten Hag was able to turn it around after the two losses at the beginning of the season. It could have easily gone dreadfully wrong.
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He couldn't adapt and succeed against the new breed of manager in a league format and Klopp beating him to the title in Germany was the beginning of the end for him at the top, at club level. Klopp's intense high pressure tactics with off the ball dynamic movement was enough to see off Van Gaal and his positional play rigidity over the course of the season. And that with a club like Dortmund who had less resources but a superior idea on how to implement a modern progressive play style. Klopp had a pure destroyer in Sven Bender as the DM and still won the league. It only took Jupp Heynckes a season to right the wrongs of Van Gaal and build upon the basic positional play principles of his predecessor to make Bayern the best in Europe again. Bayern became more vertical with the ball and more intense off the ball and it resulted in them winning the treble.

It doesn't matter about wining a few games here and there. It's about creating a playstyle that will lead to the team challenging for the league and champions league. And he never came close to doing that. And switching formations is pointless if it doesn't result in progress and a sustained improvement over time.

He was behind the times and his kryptonite at club level was the rise of the proactive attacking coaches who implemented a aggressive pressing and counter pressing approach, which saw the emergence of Klopp at Dortmund.
 
I don't think van Gaal ever was the risktaking, offensive coach that he always purported to be. He was always possession first, and, especially later in his career, defence second. If there had been any policy towards managers, and there clearly wasn't, it would've been an understandable mistake to hire him for United at the time. Moyes and especially Mourinho were however well known for their dour, conservative style and should never have been considered for the job. It's been a learning experience for United. The hiring of an actual progressive coach in Solkjaer was a huge step in the right direction, even if he fell short of expectations.

With ten Hag obviously we struck gold. A progressive manager that has a handle both on motivation and tactics, who manages both the long and short term expertly. I don't think it's right to say that ten Hag and van Gaal have the same style. They are both Dutch coaches and as such, brought up with the importance of possession-based, progressive football. While van Gaal took to the possession side, he never had much time for risk taking. Ten Hag on the other hand has a lot of experience with both possession and progression, but seems to have a preference for the latter. With United historically being a progressive side with not a particular focus on possession, van Gaal wasn't a good fit at all, while ten Hag is actually perfect.
 
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Adnan said:
He couldn't adapt and succeed against the new breed of manager in a league format and Klopp beating him to the title in Germany was the beginning of the end for him at the top, at club level. Klopp's intense high pressure tactics with off the ball dynamic movement was enough to see off Van Gaal and his positional play rigidity over the course of the season. And that with a club like Dortmund who had less resources but a superior idea on how to implement a modern progressive play style. Klopp had a pure destroyer in Sven Bender as the DM and still won the league. It only took Jupp Heynckes a season to right the wrongs of Van Gaal and build upon the basic positional play principles of his predecessor to make Bayern the best in Europe again. Bayern became more vertical with the ball and more intense off the ball and it resulted in them winning the treble.

It doesn't matter about wining a few games here and there. It's about creating a playstyle that will lead to the team challenging for the league and champions league. And he never came close to doing that. And switching formations is pointless if it doesn't result in progress and a sustained improvement over time.

He was behind the times and his kryptonite at club level was the rise of the proactive attacking coaches who implemented a aggressive pressing and counter pressing approach, which saw the emergence of Klopp at Dortmund.
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Wow you are really having an agenda here. Van Gaal laid the basis for Bayern‘s subsequent success. In his first season they finished champions after initially struggling to adapt to his methods.

He was fired early in his second season: nothing to do with Klopp and Dortmund. More with injuries and a fight with Hoeness and Rummenigge.

Van Gaal knows how to deal with counter pressing: you go long and skip ‚stations‘. Watch back Spain vs Holland in 2014.

Exactly what Ten Hag does today.

Van Gaal‘s kryptonite: Mourinho. MU under Van Gaal struggled to break down teams.

Wrong manager for MU? I think he went with the wrong football style, he should have been more pragmatic. An AZ setup would have been much better.
 
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NLunited said:
Wow you are really having an agenda here. Van Gaal laid the basis for Bayern‘s subsequent success. In his first season they finished champions after initially struggling to adapt to his methods.

He was fired early in his second season: nothing to do with Klopp and Dortmund. More with injuries and a fight with Hoeness and Rummenigge.

Van Gaal knows how to deal with counter pressing: you go long and skip ‚stations‘. Watch back Spain vs Holland in 2014.

Exactly what Ten Hag does today.
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I mentioned in my previous post about Heynckes building on the basic positional play principles of his predecessor by also adding a proactive off the ball pressing structure that was absent under Van Gaal. That what was absent under LVG and added to by Heynckes, is what made the difference and made Bayern a team who were strong in both the offensive and defensive transitions.

He was fired because he lost the league to a Klopp inspired Dortmund, fell out with the board, and several of the playing squad absolutely detested him and his methods.

Going direct to Robben was the strategy against Spain. And you can get away with that on the international stage but not over the course of the season in a top league like the EPL. Van Gaal even resorted to going long to Fellaini at United.
 
Adnan said:
He won the league at AZ playing counter attacking football from what I've read. And even Steve McLaren managed to win a league with FC Twente a few years later.
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To be fair Twente were cheating financially and got relegated as punishment. Steve had a really amazing team back then, one they couldn't afford.
 
Adnan said:
I mentioned in my previous post about Heynckes building on the basic positional play principles of his predecessor by also adding a proactive off the ball pressing structure that was absent under Van Gaal. That what was absent under LVG and added to by Heynckes, is what made the difference and made Bayern a team who were strong in both the offensive and defensive transitions.

He was fired because he lost the league to a Klopp inspired Dortmund, fell out with the board, and several of the playing squad absolutely detested him and his methods.

Going direct to Robben was the strategy against Spain. And you can get away with that on the international stage but not over the course of the season in a top league like the EPL. Van Gaal even resorted to going long to Fellaini at United.
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And now you admitted he did play direct sometimes. Van Gaal’s problems surfaced against smaller teams, not the big ones.

Again, Van Gaal did not lose the Bundesliga against Klopp, he had a terrible start to the season which has nothing to do
with Dortmund.

Teams that sit back are kryptonite for him, not pressing teams.
 
NLunited said:
And now you admitted he did play direct sometimes. Van Gaal’s problems surfaced against smaller teams, not the big ones.

Again, Van Gaal did not lose the Bundesliga against Klopp, he had a terrible start to the season which has nothing to do
with Dortmund.

Teams that sit back are kryptonite for him, not pressing teams.
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Playing vertically through the lines and going direct to take advantage of the space left in behind are two very different things.

Van Gaal did lose the league to Klopp, and it's not Dortmund or Klopp's problem that Van Gaal couldn't get his team to perform early in the season.

Van Gaal himself is a coach who resorted to playing reactive football by sitting off the opponent in the league. Because the teams who play high lines and look to play proactive attacking football, are those teams who have a method of controlling the defensive transition via a coordinated pressing game high up the pitch. With LVG that was absent and his positional play became very rigid and risk averse.
 
Hey! Don't pester this thread dedicated to our handsome bald manager with talks about that louis van haal jackass please!
 
DutchSerb said:
To be fair Twente were cheating financially and got relegated as punishment. Steve had a really amazing team back then, one they couldn't afford.
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To be honest with you, you're probably correct. But winning the Dutch league on its own, wasn't a indicator of Van Gaal's suitability at a club like United. And with the benefit of hindsight, it's clear to see he wasn't cut out for a changing landscape in the EPL.
 
Adnan said:
To be honest with you, you're probably correct. But winning the Dutch league on its own, wasn't a indicator of Van Gaal's suitability at a club like United. And with the benefit of hindsight, it's clear to see he wasn't cut out for a changing landscape in the EPL.
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I agree. I adore him and think he's a legendary coach but he sadly couldn't deliver here and even though I think he came in at the worst possible time I think the only time he would be a good fit for us was like you said when the landscape was different, when our youth academy was thriving. He is an amazing mentor for younger players and really gets the best out of them, sadly Tyler Blackett, Paddy McNair and Borthwick Johnson just lacked talent, heh. Also, almost every player he insisted on getting was rubbish.
 
DutchSerb said:
I agree. I adore him and think he's a legendary coach but he sadly couldn't deliver here and even though I think he came in at the worst possible time I think the only time he would be a good fit for us was like you said when the landscape was different, when our youth academy was thriving. He is an amazing mentor for younger players and really gets the best out of them, sadly Tyler Blackett, Paddy McNair and Borthwick Johnson just lacked talent, heh. Also, almost every player he insisted on getting was rubbish.
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I agree mate. I'm a big fan of LVG and his Ajax team was ahead of its time.

Still a legend for me but a very stubborn man when it came to his philosophy.
 
On Martial

"He is not always available, but also I see the other side when he is available, he was never 100 % this season but he had a big impact every time he is available, even when he is at 80, 85, 90%," said the United manager.

"So we do everything and Anthony Martial is doing everything. I think Anthony Martial is the player who has spent the most hours at Carrington this season, to return to recover, to get back, it is really so a pity for him that he is disappointed.

"He is not always available and we want him to be always available because that will improve our game and because routines can't become routines when you are not always available."

On Wout
"He is the one who makes players around him play better," Ten Hag told a news conference on Friday.

"As a team we have to work better to anticipate his movements because his movements are good, quite a lot of times he was close. He had many good actions and already a lot of good contributions to our results.

"He will score, but in the meantime do the other stuff, do it good. It is about not scoring individual but scoring from the team and the team has to win. He is doing a very good job at this moment in several aspects of football."


I've said it before but underneath his determination to win and football acumen is also someone who fully understands how to motivate and build a team.
 
Man Utd 2:2 Leeds Utd
Nice smile on ETHs face after Sancho scored tonight, he seems to be very good at dealing with off-the-field stuff.
 
Not mad about the result. I just hope it's the last time he ever starts with WW. Wasted a lot of time with that awful setup. Completely dominated the game once we changed to our original attacking formula.

Another day we would have won. Just learn from this.
 
He should not be in charge of transfers. Let him do what he's best at and coach. Him constantly picking Weghorst is costing us points.
 
Got the team wrong. Pushing Rashford to the right was awful. Garnacho isn't ready. Fred was diabolical
 
What does he see in peter crouch? I don't get it

Actually sorry, comparing WW to peter crouch is an insult to peter
 
Needs to learn that Rashford on the right to have Garnacho on the left is not a net benefit.
 
Just don't have the squad to deal with injuries and suspensions. Needs time to build the bench and back up players. Some good young players like Diallo and Hannibal need to be considered. Now need to go and win the next 2 games. Very happy with him so far. We are also starting to dominate possession in these types of games. Just need refinement.
 
kidbob said:
Just don't have the squad to deal with injuries and suspensions. Needs time to build the bench and back up players. Some good young players like Diallo and Hannibal need to be considered. Now need to go and win the next 2 games. Very happy with him so far. We are also starting to dominate possession in these types of games. Just need refinement.
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Absolutely.

These games are always going to happen when our squad depth is as shallow as it is. One or two key absences and we’re found lacking in key areas.
 
I'm not trying to sound clever after the event, but I would have started Sancho and used Garnacho as an impact sub. Weghorst is proving to be less than useless, so perhaps we will have to start using Rashford as a centre forward.
 
We would've won the game comfortably if we had someone a little bit better than Fred, who was very poor. The keeper is also a issue and his weaknesses were again on display.
 
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