So are there people having a right old moan, some have been waiting for the opportunity. If he had not played Casemiro and lost they would moan, he plays him gets booked and they moan. If the penalty had been given we likely would have won. We were in control. We gave a freekick away, most times the wall blocks them or they get saved miss, this one was a brilliant one. It happens, or do people think we should never give freekicks away. It happens.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I'm so mad about the penalty. It was as clear as you get.
Nah now we have a good manager we should win every game or ten hag is shit apparently
Can't win them all. He's doing a great job and meeting expectations so far
Look at the North London derby, how their players on potential ban bookings didn't get booked. It is down to the referee. Some let things go, even bad things, some will book players for the slightest thing. You cannot rest everybody on bookings or we would never have a settled side. It is just one of those things.
Also Casemiro could have easily seen a red for that challenge. It was dreadful! If anything we got lucky to only lose him for one game. To do that challenge, then and there at that time of the game was bizarre from him. Can't blame Ten Hag for that, as he'd played the game so wisely tackle wise up until that point.
Thinking again, was it really a yellow card incident. It's like ref couldn't wait to dish it out, it was Casemiro's first or 3rd foul at most. Maybe I'm paranoid.
True. I even question the need for that tackle
Amazed he didn't book him for the selfie.
Building a squad for next few seasons, good system and style of football which gives hope that we will be serious title challenger next year, trophy (ANY trophy) and CL spot is what i expect from him in this season. So far he is on right path.
Give him world class striker and one midfielder this summer and next season will be greatest in post Fergie era.
Give him world class striker and one midfielder this summer and next season will be greatest in post Fergie era.
FACTS
I don't doubt the man, but he's not been given much to work with and is performing miracles with a limited squad.
The drop in levels from Casemiro to Scott is astronomical.
Exactly. They're not even playing the same sport. Casemiro is so unbelievably good, of course having a backup for him is tough, but we've got to do something, because its a gaping hole without him.
Astronomical? No, it isn't. We beat Arsenal 3-1 on Sept 4th, with McT and Eriksen, without Casemiro. We couldn't beat Palace with Casemiro playing the full game. It is not one player that wins the game alone, it is how the whole team performs.
Yes, Casemiro is better than McTominay, but there is no reason to make such overblown statements. And we can certainly win without Casemiro. ETH made a mistake playing him for the full 60 minutes yesterday, he should have taken him off around the 60th minute. ETH also made a mistake playing McT as a striker and playing Bruno on the right. It was ETH that messed up yesterday, not McT. It's okay, he will learn from his mistakes.
Shaw centre back malacia and Martinez in for Casemiro. I can see it. Martinez is a baller and more than capable of playing that role as he has done in the past. My trust is in Ten Hag he make me believe anything is possible this season.
By a mile.
Only thing wrong from him last night in my opinion was putting Bruno on the right. Midfield and defence were fine and in control (apart from a wonder save by DDG and a corner). Front 3 very wasteful last night and poor in possession. Genuinely don't think last night is on him at all.
You would expect the players to do better, but as you said yourself Bruno on the right was a mistake. I have yet to see Bruno have even a half decent performance on the right, whereas he is fantastic in the center for us.
Against City he pulled Martial out and our control and composure dissapeared. The exact same happened when he took of Wout,
Keep Bruno in the center and swap Garnacho, Pellistri and Fred for Rashford, Antony and Eriksen and I honestly believe we would have kept complete control, and Casemiro never has to make that silly tackle.
I have not been watching a lot of games after the World Cup due to being on vacation. Even with all of our recent victories, it appears that the second half of the shitshow remains. Or am I overreacting to it?
I always find his game management in the second half a bit baffling in general. Moving Burno to the right usually makes the team and himself bad, and combining that with keeping Erikson as long as he can in the second half made the team play twice as bad. You could argue that we don't have enough depth, but, still, is that all he could do, which does not seem good enough at times (compared to what we expected from him)?
Obviously, he has been doing pretty decently and his man management has been spot on so far but every manager has some type of weakness and hopefully, this is not it.
I always find his game management in the second half a bit baffling in general. Moving Burno to the right usually makes the team and himself bad, and combining that with keeping Erikson as long as he can in the second half made the team play twice as bad. You could argue that we don't have enough depth, but, still, is that all he could do, which does not seem good enough at times (compared to what we expected from him)?
Obviously, he has been doing pretty decently and his man management has been spot on so far but every manager has some type of weakness and hopefully, this is not it.
I do agree the subs should have been better and as I said it was an error putting him on the right. The bigger issue is the squad depth and I think ETH knows it, hence why he seems reluctant to make drastic changes unless we are a couple of goals up.
Just unfortunate that a wonder goal cost us 3 points.
I would say it is more down to squad depth than him. At some point we have to make changes, a bit of rotation, and it feels like the majority of our squad are a big step down from our first 11.
Got the subs a little wrong and gave control (control as in the match became more open which suited their attackers) of the match to palace I thought - moving Bruno out to the right was a mistake and should have brought on fred for Eriksen, even before bringing on McT. But at the end of the day drawing to a worldie in stoppage time hurts, but it is what it is. Losing Casemiro was just the cherry on top 
Bring forth arsenal on Sunday.
Bring forth arsenal on Sunday.
As always, some of the reactions on here are way over the top.
We don't need to go through the whole, he's new to the league / players still learning what he wants in certain situations etc as to a degree that is still the case and he'll need a full season to truly understand what the PL is about and another transfer window or two in order to get rid of some duds and bring in players he wants.
I'd argue he's still having to learn game management from the perspective at Ajax the league wasn't as competitive and they played less matches - so he had much more opportunities at resting key players than he does at the moment. That goes back to the lack of depth in our squad. There are no easy games and when you're having to bring on McT or bring in a loan signing like Wout to help out the only 1 or 2 strikers at the squad, there are going to be games we'll slip up.
Most of us would take the position we're in at the moment. And also lets not forget the mess that Klopp is in at the moment, the talent that Potter has to chose from yet both clubs you could argue are much more of a mess than we are at the moment.
We don't need to go through the whole, he's new to the league / players still learning what he wants in certain situations etc as to a degree that is still the case and he'll need a full season to truly understand what the PL is about and another transfer window or two in order to get rid of some duds and bring in players he wants.
I'd argue he's still having to learn game management from the perspective at Ajax the league wasn't as competitive and they played less matches - so he had much more opportunities at resting key players than he does at the moment. That goes back to the lack of depth in our squad. There are no easy games and when you're having to bring on McT or bring in a loan signing like Wout to help out the only 1 or 2 strikers at the squad, there are going to be games we'll slip up.
Most of us would take the position we're in at the moment. And also lets not forget the mess that Klopp is in at the moment, the talent that Potter has to chose from yet both clubs you could argue are much more of a mess than we are at the moment.
I mean, our squad was significantly improved over the summer (in DM/CM, CB, and a hardworking RW), and I would expect at least we could shut teams down a bit better than what we usually see (not all the time) in some of those second halves. For me, it is not just that we went bad; the other teams seem to get a lot better than us, and we are not talking about the likes of City or Pool. So how did they outplay us with (assumingly) a worse squad than ours in those second halves? It seems like it's more down to the way we organize in the second halves than the personnel we have.
I wonder if we have stats only for second halves in the season and see if my concerns are just a bit ridiculous.
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You can look at any manager’s decision from a number of games and you will be able to poke holes or find them baffling. At the end of the day, the manager is there to make tough decisions based on the information he has and if he gets it right more times than wrong, then you can’t really complain.
Fergie playing the da silva twins in mf against Arsenal is a moment of genius which could very well be looked at differently on another day. Similarly, his playing Giggs and Carrick in MF in 2011 CL looks stupid in hindsight but was probably the right decision at that time.
I think what sets great managers apart apart is more how they conduct themselves, their clarity of thought, having conviction in their decisions, commanding and showing respect, setting and maintaining standards, managing tough situations, building a positive culture, etc. This is what ultimately makes or breaks a managerial job rather than individual decisions in games.
With home advantage and the season still
All our losses have come with mctom as well. Loss at home to Brighton and Brentford and city
We are going away to a ground we have poor record in.
I'm not saying we can't beat them without Casemiro, but that the drop off is massive.
All our losses have come with mctom as well.
seriously, this is not a debate between the five time champions league winner and stalwart for Brazil and a part time defender for Scotland.
Exactly why I posted what I did. And I said I hoped this was not it and it would be improved in the near future because it would be a very big flaw for where we want to be.
Assuming my concerns are even valid of course as I have not seen our second halves stats.
If I'm not mistaken ETH said in an interview that he decided to put Bruno on the right so we may keep control and possession of the ball, last night against Palace we lost control of the game at HT and we didn't regain it even after Bruno was moved there.
Imo we do not have good enough subs to fulfill the role of the starting players(midfielders and attackers):
We do not have a Eriksen type of player on the bench.
We do not have a natural RW sub for Antony.
We do not have a ST to sub Martial (that's until Weghorst came but he's a completely different type of player)
We do not have anyone to play Bruno's role.
Only decent sub that we have is Garnacho for Rashford, Fred for Casemiro(similar players but massive drop in quality) and maybe Sancho will become available, but no one knows when.
So not only that our subs are a downgrade in quality, but they can't even fulfill the roles of the starting 11 correspondents.
I dont know if it's a mistake but definitely he over thought lot of things for sure.
We played a 442 in the beginning yesterday. Rashford should have passed the ball couple of times, should have brought in enough bodies as soon as we took the lead.
We played a 442 in the beginning yesterday. Rashford should have passed the ball couple of times, should have brought in enough bodies as soon as we took the lead.
ETH may have his reasons, but Pellestri can potentially be a RW option or even starter.
I think he got it wrong last night starting Weghoust. Easy to say in hindsight, but I felt it at the time.
He'd have worried Palace a lot more coming on for the last 20. And then United wouldn't have needed to adapt to him from the off. Keep the winning players together.
He'd have worried Palace a lot more coming on for the last 20. And then United wouldn't have needed to adapt to him from the off. Keep the winning players together.
That doesn’t really make sense because we were unquestionably worse when he came off.
Will he want people to help because so far haven't seen much evidence outside his own decisions
Might help if we got in the ref's ear about Palace sneaking the free kick forward a few yards which ultimately made a difference
Confirmation bias. One could also say that Ten Hag felt the tide changing after Vieira brought on Eze 10 minutes earlier, and was responding with his own changes.
That has more to do with the fact his replacement was McTominay!
I think Martial would have started if fit. There is also the option of Garnacho LW and Rashford ST but Weghorst was brought to be used as a rotation for Martial so that's why he played.
Very true.
But we are talking about this particular game, and Casemiro played the whole game. You cannot talk about "massive drop" in this game. The whole second half was bad. With Casemiro.
Fecking hell didn't we learn from Villa about it
What does the Antony signing tell us about Ten Hag ?
I've loved the job Ten Hag has done so far but my feeling is we really need a strong recruitment team around him.
I've loved the job Ten Hag has done so far but my feeling is we really need a strong recruitment team around him.
Id agree with this, the idea that Ten Hag should have all the say is idiotic to me. Of course he needs to agree a signing, but too much power in that regard probably isn’t for the best.
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