I am more interested in non-pen xG. Cuz a pen can happen for any reason, individual mistake or random handball etc. Does not necessarily reflect the team defense.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
I am more interested in non-pen xG. Cuz a pen can happen for any reason, individual mistake or random handball etc. Does not necessarily reflect the team defense.
that seems quite arbitrary
any chance given up can be the result of an individual mistake or random handball
I think 50% of it is on him. Other reasons include some fatigued performances from Eriksen and Bruno, and Maguire instead of Lindelof against WestHam
It is arbitrary. Maybe I am not able to explain properly, I value open play xG to assess a teams attack or defense.
Nah it's typically used to track performances. Pens aren't anything consistent or that has a trend. Sure it can come from mistakes, but it can also be an entirely random event that the ref fecked up with (Martinez vs sociedad). Open play cances created and conceded is what the manager is paid to do with his team essentially. Set pieces as well, but that's more specialized coaches for that. Open play for and against takes up your majority.
there is randomness throughout the game in all aspects to it, and not just penalties obviously
there is no logical reason to remove penalties from the equation if we're talking about how many chances the team gives up
Seems you have an issue with Bruno no matter where he plays. We’ve seen him at his best, and it’s as the 10. It’s not even close. As for the “Hollywood” balls, can you point me to a post of yours where you complain about Bruno after on of his assists? Agree that he can be wasteful, as a manager, I’m fine with that to a certain level as long as he can contribute key passes and assists. Kevin de Bruyne and Bruno are almost the exact same in pass completion rate at 75%…
I disagree with you regarding the safest place to play him defensively. This is pretty elementary stuff, if you played at any decent level, defending as a winger in a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2 is one of the most difficult defending responsibilities on the field. You have to be incredibly fit, must cover wide areas and are consistently put in 1v1s, 2v1s and 3v2s.
My guess is that Ten Hag was forced to play him wide because he wanted him on the field, but wanted to give Donny some minutes. Sancho and Antony were not available, etc. I’d be surprised if we see Bruno starting in that RW position more than occasionally unless there is a injury crises. You don’t spend 100m on a winger you know intimately well and not play him. Rashford isn’t sitting either.
Last edited:
Bruno has been fantastic this season. Your post is about 5 months out of date.
hard to suggest some other out of those 2. Those 2 are 2 of the top creative and offensive cm players.
But to be honest i am not sure where Ten Hag would play FDJ if he was coming. As a CDM or as a LCM. I am not sure. But one thing i am sure. Ten Hag will still go for another Frenkie De Jong type of cm players. Ten Hag will not go for another defensive cm players. Ten Hag has enough defensive cm players in Casemiro, Fred and McTom.
Plus Eriksen is not on his peak and top level anymore. I think i have seen Eriksen better before. Reason why i think and i am sure Ten Hag will go and strength the creative and offensive in central midfield area.
Another really good cm option is Nicolo Barella from Inter. But he is only best as RCM. MV at 70 mill euro and on same level as De Jong and Bellingham. But i am not sure he is Ten Hag type of player and if Ten Hag will switch back to 433, without FDJ. But only Barella.
I am not sure if Ten Hag has give up on FDJ or not. But the other really good and top alternative out there is clearly Jude Bellingham. I think and feel Bellingham fate is just gonna to be big. If Belligham keep progress and develop or at least keep his current level. Bellingham will soon or later join a winning team in premier league, La liga or Bundesliga.
Comparison of FDJ vs Bellingham. FDJ is might more skillful, but i think and it looks like Bellingham has the edge and that dominance presence. Plus he has the natural physical attributes advantage to FDJ. So if not FDJ. I think United and Ten Hag shall try to get Bellingham. No doubt Bellingham is gonna to be one of the best cm players in the future.
Same
I mean I do realize it's a bit silly, but just can't help enjoying it. Football reduced to its most simple form on the supposedly highest level. Yep, let's get that big lump up front, we really need a goal here.There is. It's restricting chances through open play. Penalties are way too random. We had 2 years of record setting penalties and then dropped down to basically nothing the last 2 years. Conceding pens doesn't mean something against a teams defensive structure, it just means a team conceded a penalty in a random moment. Just like a player isn't a good goalscorer if they have a random year scoring 15 pens.
We're evaluating our team defence, how does a soft penalty from a nothing corner make sense to include in our defensive metrics? It's just something that happens now and then, so its better to just look at open play numbers.
I cringe when I see people still beating that Bruno incapable of playing possession football. Not even sure what it means. You'd think he loses it 99 out of 100 times it comes near him.
Like saying debuyne can't either, near sure I seen stats for both them regarding attempts at final ball etc being very similar.
That’s a good point, and it might even be that it is worth risking slight burn out this season in order to get the team prepared for next season. Either way, there are a few tough trade-off decisions to make there, and it’s really anyone’s guess what will actually turn out best in the long run.
Bs about Eriksen, he's still a world class player - he just sits deeper now. Were he to play higher you'd see more assists than now.
Got his tactics horribly wrong on Thursday to the point where I thought he was drunk. Still, I'm happy enough with where we are at this moment in time considering where we were not long ago.
you can also concede a penalty because of poor defensive structure, do you include those?
do you remove chances conceded at corners too because it's a "random moment"?
do you remove open play chances that the linesman should have called off-side?
I’m a bit worried he is bottling it when it comes to dealing with Ronaldo.
I was full of praise with how he dealt with all the drama early on but the facts don’t lie - he’s started every game since his tantrum (bar the one he was dropped for) and has never once been subbed despite being rubbish and worsening our overall play in all of them.
I don’t envy him at all - since half the media and even a chunk of our own dressing room seem to worship Ronaldo, and the alternative (dropping him) will only serve to increase the negativity, but I’m sure he could get away with not starting him some weeks.
I’m also sure if we played without him (today for example) we have more chance of winning.
I was full of praise with how he dealt with all the drama early on but the facts don’t lie - he’s started every game since his tantrum (bar the one he was dropped for) and has never once been subbed despite being rubbish and worsening our overall play in all of them.
I don’t envy him at all - since half the media and even a chunk of our own dressing room seem to worship Ronaldo, and the alternative (dropping him) will only serve to increase the negativity, but I’m sure he could get away with not starting him some weeks.
I’m also sure if we played without him (today for example) we have more chance of winning.
This is getting tiring.
We have a big issue with depth in the forwards and the injuries have made it worse.
Who would you replace Ronaldo with at the moment ?
With the current available options it’d be a straight choice between Rashford or no striker at all. That’s how poor we are with Ronaldo on the pitch.
Maguire? Both are basically useless there but chance is with Maguire we might win a couple more headers.
So remove Rashford from a position he has been performing to a position he struggles?
What would be your front three then?
Agreed. It is more a necessity than anything else
Agreed but I also don't think he had dealt that well with him from the start.
Sancho, Antony and Martial aren’t fit to start games. What is the alternative? Elanga? The lad is shite.
Ten Hag is working miracles with this crop of players.
Garnacho / Rashford / Elanga probably
I love Ten Hag, he is leagues above any manager we’ve had since Fergie and is a strong shout for one of the greatest coaches in the world right now.
It doesn’t stop me being slightly worried about how this is panning out however.
Yes Elanga is bang average (maybe even below that standard) but I’m a firm believer that players who support the system will always be better than superior players that don’t.
Right now Ronaldo undermines our whole system, so would rather have Elanga - yes.
Making Cristiano captain only confirms this is indeed Cristiano Ronaldo FC not Manchester United FC.
Elanga isn’t bang average. He’s dreadful, and Ten Hag knows it.
He doesn’t want Ronaldo in the side either, that’s obvious, but his hand is forced by injury. It’s not like Ten Hag isn’t seeing the same as everybody else. He very much is. But until players return, and until the club back him in the market with a striker, then this is where we are.
FFS hadn’t even noticed that.
At least it’s clear what Ten Hag’s strategy is now, play up to Ronaldo’s ego to hopefully get the best out of him and keep his admirers in the squad onside to see us through til the January window.
Not totally sure if I agree with it as a strategy (and it’s worryingly close to something Ole might have done) but it’s a strategy at least.
So much he made him captain.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed but we’re not exactly flush with options
It doesn't.
I have. We also have De Gea in the starting line-up, Shaw, hell even Rashford as a players who should captain this club before Cristiano.
Ronaldo has been third in line for captaincy behind Maguire and Bruno since he arrived. Ten Hag has made a deliberate decision not to change the order of captaincy. Maguire and Bruno aren’t in the team, so Ronaldo is now captain as per precedent.
Do you even follow what happens at the club?
De Gea is the only one of those that is a viable option and plenty would be using him as a stick to beat Ten Hag with too. It’s so boring the same people looking for anything every 3 days to lay into the manager for, regardless of how good a job he’s doing.
He couldn't have his moan if he followed.
You are exaggerating, he's been ok. Good games but also plenty of poor ones.
That line should've been scraped the moment he walked out on the team, you don't make captain someone who puts his ego above the team.
And to answer your question I do, so much that I'm like the topest red of all top reds you'll ever find. Ever!
Could've gone for Lindelof had he any issue with Ronaldo I guess. Or Rashford.
He's doing great job so far, that's out of the question. Still does that makes him immune to criticism and should everyone just have same opionion? God forbid having an opionion of your own on public form designed to express your views, it's travesty of some kind.
ETH, IMO, is brilliant manager, but there's something off with all this Cristiano shit that's happening and I don't want to see him going against his principles only to serve ego of someone who made everything possible to leave and shame the club in the last several months.
He fecked up the lineup again starting without a midfield, you aren't in the Eredivisie anymore.
- Status