Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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ETH is not going to get every decision right and granted in juggling the team last night due to available players did cause us some issues with creativity, our profligacy in front of goal cannot be blamed on him.

The players have to take responsibility here, I don't care if they have to 'stay behind' at practice shooting etc for several hours then do it! Beckham was good at free kicks/crossing because he spent hours practicing after main training session. Some of our players are too thick to understand cause and effect...as for Ronaldo, we'll he is just done at this level.
 
Modern managers change formations, systems, approach before or during games, they manage games, they dont stick with one formation and system all the time. ETH tried something different yesterday, yes it didnt work but he tried it. He's not sticking to just one system, yet he gets criticised for trying things. Chosen and basic formation in which we play wont work every time and it's up to him to work around it when it doesn't work.
Sad state of affair when after a game like last night one pitchforks are out. Shy but definitely out.

Not to mention our awful options upfront yesterday and all.
 
1/3 of the season is done. Second place in the group, 5th in the league.

Seen some improvements, especially in the transfer market. Hopefully he gets time
 
I have to say, I have a soft spot for the formation that Ten Hag played. Not because it's magically effective, or because it worked for us or anything. Just because I remember seeing Ajax on the telly playing that formation in the 90s and it was like something from another planet.

Back in those days if United played a 4-4-1-1 it felt a bit saucy, and on the very rare occasion we played 3 at the back, it was usually because wanted an extra man to clear headers near the end of a game. The idea of a 3313 just seemed outlandish, like someone came up with the most weird numbering system they could think of, and built a formation around it.

For what its worth I didnt see much that makes me think its a formation that'll work for us, but I want ETH to keep trying new things, even if that means the flop from time to time, Plus I think any formation is going to look blunt with the attacking options we had available yesterday.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You honestly think an elite manager with a reputation for attention to detail and heavy involvement in coaching would try a formation/tactics in our biggest game of the season that he hadn’t worked on in the training ground beforehand?
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Did any of our players look the slightest bit familiar or comfortable with the 'system'?

It's not the end of the world either way. He rolled the dice, it didn't work. We still won in Spain.
 
Strelok said:
Imo Maguire was sent in not to score but rather to win headers and create chaos in their box. A second ball or a bounce off from some crap hoofball then a tap in would be more than enough.
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well, I have to agree that he's been good a creating chaos... just at the wrong end :lol:
 
largelyworried said:
I have to say, I have a soft spot for the formation that Ten Hag played. Not because it's magically effective, or because it worked for us or anything. Just because I remember seeing Ajax on the telly playing that formation in the 90s and it was like something from another planet.

Back in those days if United played a 4-4-1-1 it felt a bit saucy, and on the very rare occasion we played 3 at the back, it was usually because wanted an extra man to clear headers near the end of a game. The idea of a 3313 just seemed outlandish, like someone came up with the most weird numbering system they could think of, and built a formation around it.

For what its worth I didnt see much that makes me think its a formation that'll work for us, but I want ETH to keep trying new things, even if that means the flop from time to time, Plus I think any formation is going to look blunt with the attacking options we had available yesterday.
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It could but it would take time. The way we play 4-2-3-1 is a massive departure from what we did last season. However, Ten Hag has had the time to drill it into the players and they are starting to get it.

The advantage Ajax has is that it develops players, even today, to play in multiple positions. That breeds a humungous tactical flexibility. In that team you're talking about, just think about how many positions Ronald De Boer, Frank De Boer, Frank Rijkaard etc played. Often within the same game.

Our players need more time to adjust. Pep has the same issue when he has one of his flights of fancy and changes City's standard 4-3-3. His players are so used to do things one way that they sometimes struggle to play 4-2-4 or whatever crazy big game plan he's conjured up.

My main frustration with Ten Hag is not actually that he tried something quite radical. Its that he tried it early, it wasn't working and he didn't change back. Even though I think the best way we would've got more out of the game would be to get Shaw and Dalot forward in support. Bruno and, even more, Garnacho, were lost when our back 3 resorted to pumping it forward cos they couldn't play through.
 
Ole's screen said:
Sigh... Its almost impossible to have a conversation without people making all about that. Yes I love ETH and would much rather him be manager than Ole. And yes we chased games much better in his two good years. They're not contradictory.
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“Is this your tactical genius?” sounds pretty much all “about that” in all honesty. So you’re the one who brought Ole into it - thus making it all about that. Managers get it wrong all the time, it doesn’t really point to any conclusive evidence at this moment. And yes, I have nothing against Ole either.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
LEWT is a bitch, right?
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You think you’re over it, then the manager does something incomprehensible in a European away game and you’re right back in 2015 watching Nick Powell leading the attack.
 
Are people that butthurt over him changing formation? This fanbase is beyond spoiled. You don't deserve this man.
 
Santoryo said:
I'm hoping this is the case and I'll be carefully watching what he does in the Aston Villa game since all of Martial, Antony and Sancho will likely be available. But it's quite odd how Ronaldo hasn't missed a single minute of football since his episode. Prior to that Ten would bench him or sub him off when stinking up the place but that hasn't been the case since his reintegration with the team. He's been allowed to put in mediocre performances 3 games in a row without getting subbed. Makes one wonder.
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Yeah martial really needs to stay fit and it doesn’t help that Sancho’s form has also forced ETH’s hand into dropping him. I hope I’m right as well. EtH just doesn’t come across as someone who “needs” to pander to any egos. For some reason I also thought Ronaldo was subbed against WHU. Didn’t know he’s played 3 matches straight without getting subbed.
 
Real Name said:
Modern managers change formations, systems, approach before or during games, they manage games, they dont stick with one formation and system all the time. ETH tried something different yesterday, yes it didnt work but he tried it. He's not sticking to just one system, yet he gets criticised for trying things. Chosen and basic formation in which we play wont work every time and it's up to him to work around it when it doesn't work.
Sad state of affair when after a game like last night one pitchforks are out. Shy but definitely out.

Not to mention our awful options upfront yesterday and all.
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I don't think the gripe is with the change in formation. The criticism is because he decided to go long league 1 style after the change of formation.
 
evil_geko said:
Are people that butthurt over him changing formation? This fanbase is beyond spoiled. You don't deserve this man.
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He tried something and because we didn't have great attacking options off the bench last it didn't come off big deal. We still won but in the end we were fecked over by that bizarre penalty decision in the reverse fixture. We deserved to win the group imo.
 
Maguire coming on to play up top should be a clear message to the Glazers that we need a striker in January.
 
He tried something different to change the course of the game.
Everyone: "Why did he do that? There was no need for that!"

What if he didn't do anything and just stuck to the first plan?
Everyone: "Why didn't he do anything? The plan wasn't working anymore!"

And that's football, a beautiful but disgraceful part of it.

The reality is that he wasn't the best manager in the world before yesterday's kick-off, and he's not the worst now. We had injuries up front and we needed more than a simple win. I praise he tried something different, that's what I want from a manager. And we didn't suffer too much after the first subs considering we were playing with a Central Defender and 2 fullbacks. DDG didn't have much job, did he?

ETH looks promising so far. He deserves credit from his days at Ajax but also for these first months here. We need more time, him and the supporters. We're building something new with him, something from the scratch. We're not being real contenders this year, probably not even the next one. Patience guys!
 
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Maybe I’m not as fussed, I think EtH got it wrong but do people really want us to push for the EL over trying to conserve our focus for the PL (top 4)? Our squad is razor thin on quality and the drop off from the first XI is massive. I think focus domestically and try and win a FA cup or something.

Of course I’d love to win the EL but I think our players are going to get knackered, especially with a World Cup in between. We should have topped the group but we lost out on GD/head to head.
 
2cents said:
You think you’re over it, then the manager does something incomprehensible in a European away game and you’re right back in 2015 watching Nick Powell leading the attack.
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Oh that Wolfsburg game. Still gives me nightmares.
 
5 clean sheets in our last 6 games. 9 clean sheets in 18 games. Getting back to our best defensive form, we look very hard to break down right now.
​
Season​
Games it took to get to 9 Clean Sheets (All comps)​
22-23​
18​
21-22​
37​
20-21​
27​
19-20​
29​
18-19​
34​
17-18​
13​
​
 
RedSky said:
5 clean sheets in our last 6 games. 9 clean sheets in 18 games. Getting back to our best defensive form, we look very hard to break down right now.
​
Season​
Games it took to get to 9 Clean Sheets (All comps)​
22-23​
18​
21-22​
37​
20-21​
27​
19-20​
29​
18-19​
34​
17-18​
13​
​
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While having played Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Chelsea (and Newcastle) already
 
A-man said:
The season isn’t over yet. If we don’t end up top 4 I would be disappointed.
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Ok but what would your disappointment mean. Are you a "sack if we don't get top 4" type of person? Or if we show improvement but just miss out because the competition is really tough and this was Ten Hags first season and there were some growing pains and our lack of a striker held us back?

Making judgments just off of the league table is a dumb way to look at things. It's a process. It takes time. Sometimes you can have a good season even if you don't finish where you hoped you would. For me it's pretty clear that Ten Hag is the guy to lead us forward, even if we finish 7th for example. Because I know we'll improve in time and will improve a lot more next season when we address the holes in our squad. And because I know that Ten Hag is the best possible manager for us and has the ability to eventually get us there, even if there might be growing pains at the start.
 
Ish said:
“Is this your tactical genius?” sounds pretty much all “about that” in all honesty. So you’re the one who brought Ole into it - thus making it all about that. Managers get it wrong all the time, it doesn’t really point to any conclusive evidence at this moment. And yes, I have nothing against Ole either.
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Yeah I guess I was trying to be cheeky. My mistake I guess.
 
hellhunter said:
While having played Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Chelsea (and Newcastle) already
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Yup, plenty of positives so far. We're starting to look like a proper team again. Put this season in context with last season and the difference is night and day.

Pogue Mahone said:
The Martinez Effect.
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Honestly, Martinez has been a revelation, but the combination of Martinez and Casemiro has been huge for us. Proper leaders at the back, its refreshing to have a world class midfielder again.
 
Too much is being made from very little regarding the change of formation. We were bad and we looked tired too throughout the game. It made me wonder what game were Hargreaves and Scholes watching in their half-time analysis. They were beating us to almost every second ball in their 2/3 of the pitch, and they had found two outlets in their forward and left-back to find the extra man and keep circulating the ball. They didn't allow us to find any kind of rhythm.

VdB was plain bad, while Casemiro and Eriksen looked like they could both use a break. That's the midfield, right there. Ronaldo may have got the assist (courtesy of the CB kindly allowing him to turn and pass), but that just showcased what we're missing from our main man whenever he's on the pitch. Lindelof looked, rusty, too. I believe ETH knew the problem with Bruno's ineffective defending when tracking back, but he decided to take a positive gamble since he's one of our most creative players. Didn't pay off, but mainly because very little worked well in our axis. And despite all that, we still won the game.

I would be more worried about how thin the squad looks on quality. From Casemiro/Eriksen/Bruno to McFred and VdB, that's a problem for the type of football he wants to implement. Anyway, he has most players performing well under him, that's the good sign early on. To me, Maguire up front was nothing more a message to the board to get him a forward. And he's freaking Dutch. If he's going to have a tactical brain fart, it will be by trying a formation that can (on paper) give him the most possible triangles on the pitch.
 
Everyone was crying for missing CL and now are scared to play CL dropout.Amazing.
Knives were sharpening for a week.
 
Those maverick decisions are two edge sword. If they give success then manager is a genius but if not then he may become subject of ridicule among fans, worse could lose respect of some of his players.

Anyway. Moving on.
 
Very happy with him so far and the signings have been excellent. We are now at the point where his ultimate success will be based on how he backed by those above him. The squad has a lot of fat that needs shedding and to be replaced with more quality and he needs the backing to do so. Ronaldo, Maguire, AWB, Elanga and one of Fred/McTominay all need to be moved on and replaced with players who suit the system and have more ability. This is ultimately where it'll be decided if his time here is a success or failure. I have no doubt that he'll continue to improve us as the season progresses but a blind man can see that the squad still isn't in a place where we should be expecting miracles.

I put a lot of our struggles last night down to injuries and just paying a fired up good technical team. Anthony was especially a big miss with his ability to keep the ball well up top. Still we played a good side away and won despite not playing anywhere near our best so not all doom and gloom.
 
He obviously felt we weren't making any headway in the current situation, so decided to roll the dice.

On paper taking off a defender and chucking on another attacker should work, but unfortunately it didn't really work out that way as our build up fell apart.

Maybe in training it worked well, It happens, we learn and move on. We still won 1-0 away in Spain - usually we'd be delighted with that.
 
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Felt like he tried using the squad to get through to save energy of the first choice that we had available and gamble a bit but we end up with an extra tough tie.

We can blame the ref but we failed to score at home to them and have made hard work of the easier games. It would be nice to be on the right end of the refs for a change but I see it a lot where a struggling team like ours get bogged down with playacting and ref decisions. If you start to play better and quicker then you tend to avoid some of the bitty play and antics.
 
bosnian_red said:
Ok but what would your disappointment mean. Are you a "sack if we don't get top 4" type of person? Or if we show improvement but just miss out because the competition is really tough and this was Ten Hags first season and there were some growing pains and our lack of a striker held us back?

Making judgments just off of the league table is a dumb way to look at things. It's a process. It takes time. Sometimes you can have a good season even if you don't finish where you hoped you would. For me it's pretty clear that Ten Hag is the guy to lead us forward, even if we finish 7th for example. Because I know we'll improve in time and will improve a lot more next season when we address the holes in our squad. And because I know that Ten Hag is the best possible manager for us and has the ability to eventually get us there, even if there might be growing pains at the start.
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For me it is fully possible to have several goals, not just one. I can be happy with how we play and our progress, but can still be disappointed in our poor goal scoring ability or how we end up in the league table. Finishing top-4 isn’t even very high expectations imo.
I wouldn’t want to sack ETH if we finished outside top 4, of that’s what you’re asking.
 
Desert Eagle said:
That was poor from ETH last night. He got the starting formation wrong. Bruno was useless on the right and Donny and Eriksen poor in the middle. In hindsight Fred, Rashford or Elanga would have been better options.

Then his first swtich with Rashford and Mctom was poor because of where those players were playing. Should have put Rashford on the left and Garnacho on the right.

With his second switch though we did look more threatening. I know lump it up to slabhead football is primitive but in desperate times I don't mind the attempt. The execution was still poor though.

We did win the game with a clean sheet but I'd give him a 5/10 rating for the game.
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I didn’t think it was a great performance yesterday, and I felt our attacking play was a lot more disjointed than it has been for most of this season. On the other hand, 1-0 away in San Sebastian is not a bad result, and while I found La Real slightly more productive than us, it was an even performance away to a very solid team. 5/10 seems unreasonably harsh. I’d say 6.

I’m not sure your solutions would have been better, though. I think the Hammers game showed us what most of us already know - that we are at the back end of a rather heavy streak of 13 games in 41 days, and Ten Hag has not been here long enough to have two elevens who can play at close to the same level. He has to rotate, and certainly some players show they’re worse for wear. 1-0 away to Real Sociedad should be seen in that light as well.
 
RedSky said:
5 clean sheets in our last 6 games. 9 clean sheets in 18 games. Getting back to our best defensive form, we look very hard to break down right now.
​
Season​
Games it took to get to 9 Clean Sheets (All comps)​
22-23​
18​
21-22​
37​
20-21​
27​
19-20​
29​
18-19​
34​
17-18​
13​
​
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That's a very good record, even better considering the schedule and adjustments to defensive core.
 
He has been starting too many immobile players since the Chelsea game which is affecting the fluidity of both the attack and midfield.

The next 3 games are gonna be a real slog if Martial and Antony aren't back and dare I say Fred also needs to start in midfield even with all of his flaws.
 
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