Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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For me the improvements are clear.
We are a team again, playing and fighting for each other.

He still has issues in the squad like the lack of a good reliable striker (Martial is injury prone, Ronaldo is sadly done, and Rashford is a terrible finisher), lack of a good right back (Dalot isn't very good), and cover for central midfield (missing Eriksen for 1 game shouldn't result in us playing Fred who is hopeless).

Defense and midfield are looking good, its stable again. Even DDG is playing higher up and smothering through balls before they turn into real chances for the opposition.
 
It's funny how people want manager to stamp his authority after 13 games. It seems they forgot Klopp's first few seasons or Pep's first season with city.


Its because a huge section of our fan base are morons and have the emotions of a spoilt children


Now we getting told he can't play possession football whatever that means, even when his Ajax pretty much dominated every match they played, near sure was 60%+ possession yesterday for example
 
It's funny how people want manager to stamp his authority after 13 games. It seems they forgot Klopp's first few seasons or Pep's first season with city.

Klopp got to Europa final in his first year and Pep got top 4.
 
Its because a huge section of our fan base are morons and have the emotions of a spoilt children


Now we getting told he can't play possession football whatever that means, even when his Ajax pretty much dominated every match they played, near sure was 60%+ possession yesterday for example

Did you watch those games? Calling people morons and children who have a different opinion to you for simply questioning the quality of performances is not a good look for you.

Ajax dominated most games due to the quality of players they had in comparison to the rest of league bar PSV where most of the lower opposition they faced had to drop deep and defend. They were still not heavily dominate through the middle of the park. Ajax mainly played through the flanks, using overlaps and overloads down the flanks while and using tika taka passing to link up the front 3 just like how we are playing right now.

When decents team came to press and match them in quality Ajax under Hag would drop deep and rely on counter breaks.

Yesterday Newcastle were not afraid and they dominated us in the first half. 2nd half a different story yet out of the entire match we only mustered 2 shots on target.
 
You could just use us as an example when LVG took over. We went from whatever we were in Fergies later years and then under Moyes to an absolute possession hogger team. Granted, we didn't do much with the ball but we were quite good at moving it around. And even if LVG brought in quite a lot of players, most of them weren't particular big in terms of possession. So I think, the other posters statement is absolutely true: you don't need excessive amounts of time and money for it. Which doesnÄt mean, that excessive amounts of time and money will accelerate or improve this endeavour.

Sorry but that's a poor example as well. We had 10 points after LVG's first 10 games and he used various concoction of formations and players, none of which produced possession football until way later in the season, and certainly not good possession football. The Leicester 3-5 game sums up LVG's early start. It was far from possession football. It also involved LVG selling or disregarding some good players and promoting or signing some dross. I think ETH is less insanely idealistic and more pragmatic, because results matter more than possession stats. Although that said, LVG was pragmatic too, the thing that turned it around for LVG was him realising in the second half of the season that we could lump it to Fellaini to beat the opposition midfield line rather than attempting to pass through from the back. Aerial tiki-taka!

It takes time. And even though the team LVG weren't used to playing possession football, most of them had the raw tools in the locker to do so. Especially at a time when the league on the whole wasn't heavily press or possession focused. Now, all teams are well coached in pressing and preventing opposition build up play, and whose raw tools are not favourable to a team attempting to do so at this level.

The more challenging problem for ETH isn't build up play from the back or overall possession, we actually do that quite well at that already especially given we don't have a DLP. It's how to break teams down after that point. For years opposition teams know we struggle to break through a deep defensively line. So if we do succeed in the initial build up phase they lock up shop and we cause little threat despite plenty of the ball.
 
He’s missing a trick with Fred. In tougher games, we need to tighten the midfield and make a decision on Eriksen and Bruno, especially if the idea is to press higher up the pitch. McTominay needs to go in the bin and Casemiro needs a full run of games.

Yesterday Proved exactly why Fred is not good enough.

Lack of quality on the ball, never really penetrating passed from deep, always wants an extra touch or second to set the ball out of his feet, can go in the summer for me, rather give opportunities to the kids who are on the way up.
 
One thing that is quiet evident through eye test is that we don’t look like conceding every 5 minutes unlike before. Neither do we capitulate after conceding.

People comparing this team to Oles are unfair Oles first season was actually good. The problem was not improving on it. Currently the people who are pleased with the team will not have the same opinion if the team is still performing like this by this time next year .
 
The first hour of that game isn't representative of our true progress, likewise the 2nd half last week. There is a tendency to go full route one in the minutes where Ronaldo leads the line. This is not representative of the final product, like at all. In fact as much of an excuse as this sounds I'd just go ahead and delete it from the sample frame for measuring our play. The way we finished the game and the first half at everton is closer to how we want to play.
 
One thing that is quiet evident through eye test is that we don’t look like conceding every 5 minutes unlike before. Neither do we capitulate after conceding.

People comparing this team to Oles are unfair Oles first season was actually good. The problem was not improving on it. Currently the people who are pleased with the team will not have the same opinion if the team is still performing like this by this time next year .
Agreed. Our problem is attacking players not performing which was the same issue as last year really.

We were just leaking goals for fun and not scoring previously. Defence looks way more solid but attack is still wishy washy.
 
I like Ten Hag but the claims that he is already our best manager post Fergie and the games we don’t win shouldn’t count, seem a bit much.
 
I like Ten Hag but the claims that he is already our best manager post Fergie and the games we don’t win shouldn’t count, seem a bit much.

It's called the cult of the manager, don't question, don't analyse performances, don't critique manager's decision, just believe he's going to be the next Fergie.
 
It's funny how people want manager to stamp his authority after 13 games. It seems they forgot Klopp's first few seasons or Pep's first season with city.

Klopp and Pep stamped their authority within 13 games.
 
Its because a huge section of our fan base are morons and have the emotions of a spoilt children


Now we getting told he can't play possession football whatever that means, even when his Ajax pretty much dominated every match they played, near sure was 60%+ possession yesterday for example

Ha ha, I am an Ajax fan and I have exactly the same visiting the comments section of the Ajax site: spoilt children.

Good luck with ETH. He is a good coach and very funny.
 
Possession has improved, however would like us to get to the by-line and cut the ball back against low blocks a lot more often. Our final ball in general is rarely good enough and it has to be to win games like yesterday.
 
Klopp's league record in his first season was w13 d9 l8, having taken over a similarly abysmal squad.

You should look beyond the record then. Liverpool were playing Klopp's football pretty much from the off.
 
We're honestly playing very decently for a team without a striker. Ronaldo's movement is troubling no one except his teammates, and Rashford is unremarkable outside of counter attacking football when he's played down the middle. So considering the opposition CBs barely have anything to worry about and never get stretched, and so we never get that additional room in the final third, we're doing okay really. Barring the City game, which was the worst of everything we are, we look a tougher team to beat, and I'm confident that attacking incision will develop more with time. Have to - at LEAST - loan a striker in January.
 
The disappointment with yesterday's result comes from the expectations with Ten Hag. The fact is that he has been able to steady the ship fairly early in his tenure and now we're already expecting the team to win every game is a positive in itself.

We've been extremely competitive in the big games and have been able to create great chances against every opposition we've played against. The quality of goals we've scored this season has been exceptional along with the fact that we've scored a very high percentage from open play.

One thing I like about Ten Hag is that he doesn't like to create too much drama and has handled the Ronaldo situation perfectly. He doesn't play into the hands of the media without being overly sensitive about the failures.
 
The positive yesterday was that it was obvious that the players Ten Hag doesn’t rate would be holding us back.

We saw it with players like Fred and Ronaldo as we have seen it with players like Maguire and De Gea.
 
I’ve not seen anything yet to dampen my faith in the manager. The team created at least 10 big chances in the past two games, so a clinical finisher is badly needed. We are getting so much better at holding onto possession though and defensive structure is miles ahead of last season.
 
Klopp's league record in his first season was w13 d9 l8, having taken over a similarly abysmal squad.

They didn't have a negative goal difference for long though. With or without overwhelming talent, I'm disappointed that we still have the goal difference of a mid table team. Its even worse if you look at the expected goal difference.
 
They didn't have a negative goal difference for long though. With or without overwhelming talent, I'm disappointed that we still have the goal difference of a mid table team. Its even worse if you look at the expected goal difference.
Sort the striking position out and it will help. We have had a couple of bad defeats but again the biggest problem is not having a prolific goalscorer. If our forwards are not scoring we don't particularly get them from elsewhere on the field. It has been an issue for years and we just never address it.
 
ETH does not seem to understand the squad well. This was evidenced by the fact that he played McFred on the first few games and used the same tactics. Playing the same tactics and players as Ole.

In fact, he does not even know CR7 as much as some fans here.
 
To try and remain positive my take is if ETH can get us playing more as a team, which in my mind he is doing with mediocre players as a whole, how will he fare when he actually signs players with pedigree?

Let's be honest. I wouldn't care if every single one of them bar maybe Martinez and Antony are sold. There's definitely better players out there in the rest of the positions. We should look at this as a 3 year project (the same as with Ole) and not be judging him after 10 PL games. The sooner people accept we aren't going to be pushing for major titles with this group of players in the foreseeable future the easier it will be analysing games like today. The quality just isn't there to be expecting more.
 
I see Klopp and Pep being mentioned as examples, do people have no shame, same shit was spout during Ole dark days.
 
Some of the posters here need to really understand that style of play is dependent on the type of squad you have. ETH prefers a style of play which is more direct and incisive with intelligence in making quick decisions with the ball. We have the players who can be direct and incisive, but lack the intelligence required for making decisions with the ball. Martinez, Eriksen and Sancho are capable of this but the rest of the players tend to be instinctive with their decision making. This explains the irregularity of the performances.

It will take time for the team to adapt to ETH's playing style and progress can be clearly seen. Defeats and draws will happen as the team is still growing but so far, it has been kept to a minimum. There is no such thing as instant success and if you expect it to be instant, you can refrain from watching us play.
 
They didn't have a negative goal difference for long though. With or without overwhelming talent, I'm disappointed that we still have the goal difference of a mid table team. Its even worse if you look at the expected goal difference.
Your logic is flawed. Results of 2 matches out of a possible 9 shouldn't cloud your judgment.
 
I see Klopp and Pep being mentioned as examples, do people have no shame, same shit was spout during Ole dark days.

These fans are not really fans of the club, just the success only. They are used to seeing us dominate during SAF days, so they always expect immediate success. This is why they will never be able to appreciate the positives and always feel disgruntled unless we show great dominance.
 
Oh the moaning!

Newcastle is a very good side now that works hard and presses aggressively, held City to a draw. Why would it be a walk in the park for us?

Considering we had no Eriksen yesterday, we did well. Fred presses well but does not offer much in possession.

I was pleased to see us match the intensity of Newcastle, which is a prerequisite to get anything out of the game.

We continue to improve in playing out from under the press, and had good spells of possession in the second half.

What was missing was Eriksen in midfield, the right runs and better finishing.

We had them on the ropes the last fifteen minutes. With more composure we would have finished them off.
 
ETH does not seem to understand the squad well. This was evidenced by the fact that he played McFred on the first few games and used the same tactics. Playing the same tactics and players as Ole.

In fact, he does not even know CR7 as much as some fans here.

Haha
 
Did you watch those games? Calling people morons and children who have a different opinion to you for simply questioning the quality of performances is not a good look for you.

Ajax dominated most games due to the quality of players they had in comparison to the rest of league bar PSV where most of the lower opposition they faced had to drop deep and defend. They were still not heavily dominate through the middle of the park. Ajax mainly played through the flanks, using overlaps and overloads down the flanks while and using tika taka passing to link up the front 3 just like how we are playing right now.

When decents team came to press and match them in quality Ajax under Hag would drop deep and rely on counter breaks.

Yesterday Newcastle were not afraid and they dominated us in the first half. 2nd half a different story yet out of the entire match we only mustered 2 shots on target.


I've no issue with criticism, it's baseless made up opinions etc that I was replying too from poster who was actually replying to the possession comment. Sorry you feel offended by me exercising my freedom to opinion too.


Your post is a contradiction in a way. Ajax dominated the ball because of better players you say. But you are expecting us to dominate teams who maybe have better players and a better team than us currently.

Then when we dominate the ball like yesterday, you are make excuses for it. Near sure the first half stats showed we dominated the possession as well, but you are claiming Newcastle dominated us, when nothing Is pointing to that. If anything Newcastle in that 2nd half where playing like a plucky team down the league trying to survive for points. They are currently a point behind us in the league so it was clash against a team who have scored a lot of goals in the last 2 games and are currently completing with us on the table.


I honestly not sure what you are even arguing about.
 
They didn't have a negative goal difference for long though. With or without overwhelming talent, I'm disappointed that we still have the goal difference of a mid table team. Its even worse if you look at the expected goal difference.

GD mostly comes down to having Martial and Ronaldo stuck on the books. And the 4 goals shipped to Brentford which is obviously a bit of a freak result.

Can't really blame ETH for our lack of goalscoring until he has the opportunity to change the strikers. Like if he fails to get rid of Martial and Ronaldo at the earliest opportunity and bring in someone new.
 
I've no issue with criticism, it's baseless made up opinions etc that I was replying too from poster who was actually replying to the possession comment. Sorry you feel offended by me exercising my freedom to opinion too.


Your post is a contradiction in a way. Ajax dominated the ball because of better players you say. But you are expecting us to dominate teams who maybe have better players and a better team than us currently.

Then when we dominate the ball like yesterday, you are make excuses for it. Near sure the first half stats showed we dominated the possession as well, but you are claiming Newcastle dominated us, when nothing Is pointing to that. If anything Newcastle in that 2nd half where playing like a plucky team down the league trying to survive for points. They are currently a point behind us in the league so it was clash against a team who have scored a lot of goals in the last 2 games and are currently completing with us on the table.


I honestly not sure what you are even arguing about.

I don't feel offended, I welcome different opinions I'm just saying for your own benefit it's not a good look bashing and generalising the entire fanbase calling them morons and children if they don't all believe the sun shines out of the managers backside after what we've been subjected to so far which has been a mixed bag of mediocre performances and games where we've looked coherent as a team.

I don't see how I contradicted myself, Ajax had a far superior squad to all of the 18 teams of the league. bar Feyenoord and PSV. All the rest of league were championship level and that's even a push. In that environment he could afford play players out of position, not have to make difficult mid game changes while his star studded ajax team were wheeled out to bully and dominate less quality teams week in week out

He doesn't have that luxury here in the premiership. Most of the teams in the premiership are fearless and are accustomed to pressing and have squads filled with internationals, not semi professionals and part timers so being tactically astute and flexibility is imperative to success

He can't afford to keep playing players in different roles trying to force them to play a way they are not suited as we've seen with fred, Rashford and early in the first few games where he played eriksen as a cdm.

Former ajax manager Aad De Mos seems to think he has quite a few flaws which we some of us ''children' and ''morons' have picked up on

De Mos “I think that Ten Hag does not read the match well, as always.

“It takes far too long before Erik ten Hag strikes with his substitutions. He already did that too late in Lisbon. Brian Brobbey should be brought in much earlier. He didn’t have to substitute [Sebastian] Haller, but if you could have just added him as an extra striker, they would have been in trouble.

“You also have to show some guts in these kinds of games and not hide in your dugout. You have to have some fire show up, get to that line and stir things up a little bit when things get messy in the field. And that was it. You helped Benfica into the saddle by playing the game they like. It’s all too noncommittal at Ajax.''

Now we have seen lack of intensity in games, we have seen him dither and not make any changes until late ina game when it's been calling for changes to be made earlier. In the first half we actually out worked by Newcastle and only made a sub in the 72 min

Imagine if he brought Rashford on earlier we might have had a better chance of winning the match when it was clear things were not working out for Ronaldo. And why isn't Ten Hag telling his player to stop trying to force feed everything to Ronaldo? That's what hurt us the most, players not playing for the team but playing instead to serve ronaldo. Was that a direct command from ten hag or are the players doing their own thing?
 
Sort the striking position out and it will help. We have had a couple of bad defeats but again the biggest problem is not having a prolific goalscorer. If our forwards are not scoring we don't particularly get them from elsewhere on the field. It has been an issue for years and we just never address it.

I wish it were so simple, the scary thing is we are slightly outperforming our expected goal difference. The attack as a whole is not creating many good chances.
 
GD mostly comes down to having Martial and Ronaldo stuck on the books. And the 4 goals shipped to Brentford which is obviously a bit of a freak result.

Can't really blame ETH for our lack of goalscoring until he has the opportunity to change the strikers. Like if he fails to get rid of Martial and Ronaldo at the earliest opportunity and bring in someone new.

Those results happen over the course of any season. Even by goals scored and xG, we're firmly below top 10 level and that comes down to lack of quality chances created. The creativity is there but it is yet to click.
 
Frankly I feel like we're fit Martial away from being a really good side. Defending and midfield seems sorted out, attack is disjointed but difficult, or impossible to fix with the players ETH has at his disposal currently.
That said we're pretty average now.
 
I fully back ETH to do a good job eventually but right now I am confused as to why we play the way we do. It feels like this is not his system, he can't trust the players to play his way and his subs really worry me. Rashford for Ronaldo when Newcastle sat deep? Why not lump off Fred or Bruno who were atrocious and would need be able to find that goal. One thing for sure, we badly need a striker in Jan and another midfielder who can dictate and pass the ball. We cannot rely on Erickson only and ETH maybe does not want to throw in some youngsters, probably because it may pollute them.
 
I don't see how I contradicted myself, Ajax had a far superior squad to all of the 18 teams of the league. bar Feyenoord and PSV. All the rest of league were championship level and that's even a push. In that environment he could afford play players out of position, not have to make difficult mid game changes while his star studded ajax team were wheeled out to bully and dominate less quality teams week in week out

He doesn't have that luxury here in the premiership. Most of the teams in the premiership are fearless and are accustomed to pressing and have squads filled with internationals, not semi professionals and part timers so being tactically astute and flexibility is imperative to success
Ajax had a inferior squad in the Champions League when they dicked Dortmund and Madrid and they played like they did in Eredivisie
 
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