Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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Well if you read my posts, of course, I'm not dismissing a whole generation. I said elebrity and wealth were all factors, which have exploded with this generation.. I'm mainly talking about the changes within football. I fecking hate these boards sometimes. People will take absurd extreme positions to make a point rather than actually have a discussion and arrive somewhere different from their starting point. That's a debating society lads, not a discussion board. Of course, I'm not casting shade on a whole generation. This generation outside of football gives me huge hope and positivity. But the football environment has changed hugely in the last 3 decades. To think that doesn't have an effect on the footballers that are being produced is just bizarre. So we basically agree. that there are issues in this group, and we aren't really sure why.
Someone here you-know-who must be even more devastated.That pic now reminds me of this meme
I just read that the board are against ETH having Steve McClaren as his assistant. Why? The report says they would prefer ETH checks out the existing coaches etc, but all of these, even Mike Phelan who helped SAF to some great triumphs, are now tainted by their association with the failures in the years since SAF retired. ETH has worked with McClaren before and wants somebody he knows and trusts who is familiar with the United set up. ETH will be bringing in new faces to the playing staff and he should be allowed to bring in new faces to his coaching staff too. The board have been useless for years and their decisions have been woeful; they have to back off and let the new manager manage.
Yeah. Liverpool and City aren't better just because they are full of silky-skilled technicians; they are also massively hard working. It astounds me that people still can't see this.
It was the same three years ago when we got battered by Everton and Ole rightly called the players out for being outfought and outrun. Loads of people on here piled in with "he just wants headless chickens". The fact that he was unable to do anything about it (maybe because he was too nice) didnt mean that he was wrong.
Reading more about him in this thread, it's clear he's incredibly organised and detailed. He's exactly what we need.
I kind of think we would be better off incorporating a few of our talented 'youngsters' into the team and let him 'indoctrinate' them. I can see problems with some of our current players who quite frankly seem to leave their brains on another planet. I don't want to hear nonsense in the press about players complaining about his methods - either because they refuse to absorb the information or they are being plain lazy.
Really essential that the club hierarchy and the fans don't get distracted, and back the manager's methods. It won't be a quick fix, and we'll get a lot of nonsense commentary whilst we rebuild, but we really need to persevere.
I kind of think we would be better off incorporating a few of our talented 'youngsters' into the team and let him 'indoctrinate' them. I can see problems with some of our current players who quite frankly seem to leave their brains on another planet. I don't want to hear nonsense in the press about players complaining about his methods - either because they refuse to absorb the information or they are being plain lazy.
Really essential that the club hierarchy and the fans don't get distracted, and back the manager's methods. It won't be a quick fix, and we'll get a lot of nonsense commentary whilst we rebuild, but we really need to persevere.
Pretty sure there were reports out there saying the opposite? Find it hard to believe they'd just leave him hanging.
And in football I’ve pointed to other clubs where these apparent issues aren’t the case, or other clubs where it was the case with past generations and isn’t now, because I don’t think this generation is any different to any other and sometimes these things happen at your side and it feels like it’s overbearing. In fact my initial point that you responded to was literally only saying that the issues are nothing to do with “Gen Z not being up to it” as another poster put it.
In football I genuinely believe that the issues we see with this generation are no different than what has been before, we’re just in a 24 hour news cycle now and hear about things that previously weren’t a thing. Sure the way this plays out may be different because every bodies lives are different, but you can go right back to the infamous Robson/McGrath/Whiteside etc… drinking culture problems to see that footballers (nor any group of people tbf) are not spotless, hell George Best was 30 years before that even.
Anyway, we’ve got the man I wanted, I’m excited for what’s to come and think he is capable of leading us to being competitive at the very least.
Great news that we’ve started our transfer business. Bad news that it’s Kalvin Phillips.
Nope. Jose fan. Look at his posting history.
There are loads of them lurking below the woodwork, bizarrely.
People keep saying ETH is some "big risk" (which is stupid) but at the bare minimum it seems he's going to overhaul the structure in how we do business both in training and in the back rooms of the club which is already a huge improvement over just hiring a manager, making a few signings, and running it back in hopes he has a magic touch.
So you agree with the idea that it's not generational? Now I will point out that United have been commercial since before SAF arrived and that all the big clubs are, that's how they all became or maintained that status. And no I don't think that the fabled commercial aspect has had any impact on the culture in the dressing room. If it was the case Bayern, Real Madrid and Liverpool would be in the same situation but they aren't.
What I do is look at the players that we have, the players that we have had since SAF left and I see inferior players, I look at the coaching staffs and I see inferior coaches. It's puzzling that people keep making statements around attitude when we have inferior athletes/technicians and inferior managers, our issues are clearly linked to football abilities. And the only thing that matter in what Keane said was "they lack real quality", the rest is utter pashun nonsense. Keane didn't play for a United team that lacked quality, he didn't play for a United team that lacked confidence in their own abilities, it's easy to play with pride in that context, so of course he isn't going recognize the club that he knew but it's a similar situation to what United had in the decades that preceded SAF. Former players forget that they had the best manager in the world supporting them, some of these former players seem to lack humility and awareness they believe in their own hype, thinking that they would have won much without proper support and teams full of top talents.
What this club needs is a culture shock. The players are in for their biggest shock of their lives.
They are used to having it their own way. With Jose player power won, with Ole, it was Ole protecting the players.
In comes Ten Hag, first time a manager is appointed where fans do not care about any player, which means manager > players.
So even like Rashford, Maguire, who recently have thrown their toys out and went onto social media, they are used to getting support, excuses for their displays. He needs a CB partner, he is playing on injury, Ole cant coach...
You have seen evidence of this in recent games where no player has tweeted anything after Liverpool, previously it was sorry we need to do better.
I am all in for ETH to give these players discipline.
They are used to having it their own way. With Jose player power won, with Ole, it was Ole protecting the players.
In comes Ten Hag, first time a manager is appointed where fans do not care about any player, which means manager > players.
So even like Rashford, Maguire, who recently have thrown their toys out and went onto social media, they are used to getting support, excuses for their displays. He needs a CB partner, he is playing on injury, Ole cant coach...
You have seen evidence of this in recent games where no player has tweeted anything after Liverpool, previously it was sorry we need to do better.
I am all in for ETH to give these players discipline.
I agree with the bolded part wholeheartedly, but it still doesn't excuse the fact that this group of players do not try to work hard enough during matches we've seen inferior players in other teams compete with Liverpool and City, they might lose most of the time, but they try their best to compete, Liverpool this season didn't even break a sweat when they beat this team 9-0 on aggregate.
The problem with comparing us to inferior teams is that these inferior teams are used to be utterly dominated, it's normal, it doesn't affect their confidence. To give you an example I would use Tottenham or Arsenal against Bayern, you remember those games where Bayern toyed with these teams. And I would like to point to the fact these same players were the kings of comebacks last season, their issue isn't effort or even being weak but there is a point where you lose faith and it's over.
I'm behind the idea that we need to remove a certain amount of players and bring a new energy on top of adding quality but I really don't understand nor like the lack of sense and empathy that many fans and pundits are showing, you would think that these people have never been in tough spot, that they have never struggled mentally or seen someone around them struggle.
ETH need to ship these players out on priority, it is as important as signing new players.
Paul Pogba(OoC)
Juan Mata(OoC)
Lee Grant(OoC)
Cavani(OoC)
Matic(OoC)
Eric Bailly
Phil Jones
Martial
Andreas
Axel
Chong
Williams or Telles or Both
Paul Pogba(OoC)
Juan Mata(OoC)
Lee Grant(OoC)
Cavani(OoC)
Matic(OoC)
Eric Bailly
Phil Jones
Martial
Andreas
Axel
Chong
Williams or Telles or Both
Wow. Thanks. Hope he gets the players he need and not what the board wants.
Are there any players he can turn around rather than sell and replace ?
Can't wait til he ships out fecking Lee Grant. He's toxic and stealing a living!
ETH's hard rain will come and wash all the scum off Carrington.
Late to the party, didn't see the news until late last night, I'm 100% in favour of this appointment, there are no guarantees but I think Ten Hag gives us the best shot at becoming an exciting and successful football team again, but he's going to need plenty of time as there's so much trash he needs to dispose of.
Id say rashford will thrive under him with some proper coaching, Fred will be good with him although he’s been pretty good this season anyway. I’d like to think Shaw will be good under him aswell as I think he likes his full backs to push high up, be interesting to see who he goes for rb, and I’m interested to see how Bruno does under him.
Exactly, seems like everyone - fans, media, ex players - have been brainwashed. As I am tired using Tuchel as example let’s use another Chelsea season, 2012. Chelsea were nothing special that season and would probably be fighting relegation had AVB stayed because it was just not working out any longer. Di Matteo comes and the same players turn into mentality and attitude champions and go on to win the FA Cup and CL.
Players are humans and while some need to leave others have just lost confidence because nothing is working any longer and this will not change until a competent manager comes and mixes things up again.
Also my favourite United player ever Keane should know better than anyone else how important top and stable club surroundings, management and club set up are for players. If it was all about mentality and attitude of players then why did he have a problem with the amateur Irish setup before the WC 2002 where he left the camp as captain? Why was he so disgusted that nothing there was even close to being as professional as at United?
Don't know if they fall under "turning around" but I think he will find a way to work with Tuanzebe, Williams and Chong.
It’s okay. We kept the receipt.
Seriously, it might not work out, but I hope he proves you wrong.
Agreed. If ten Hag wants a target man, he'd be a very good option by the looks of it. He would certainly be cheaper than Darwin Núñez, Osimhen and Abraham. Considering everything else we need to do, it would be sensible from a value point of view.
1.95 m, according to google. I've been meaning to watch Sassuolo, since they are usually fun team to watch and have a few players, like Scamacca or Matheus Henrique, that are interesting, but I haven't gotten around to it. From what I've read, despite his height he's supposed to be mobile.
Rashford I'm not sure about. The issue with Rashford, outside of his disastrous slump this year, is his all-round game. Its not great. His passing is just as erratic as Bruno's, arguably worse.
His link-up play is practically non-existent and his overall 'football intelligence' is just average in possession. He rarely looks-up for a teammate too. Its all heads down and run.
He's not a wide player that will put in many crosses, either cutting in or going down the by-line.
If he's 30 yards from the opposition area, he only has eyes for goal. Whether that'll be pulling off a shot or running at it. It all he thinks about in those moments.
What Rashford is all about is his movement in initiating his runs against teams that push up without the ball and his individualism and ,what I mentioned above, directness in carrying the ball and pulling off efforts on goal.
Now I hope he regains his form but I dont think, for the majority of time, he'll be a consistent first teamer under Hag. Rashford is just too much of a individualist.
And, I mean this in the kindness way, he's not a team-player.
Fred, I don't think there's much area's for him to progress in. I think the Fred we're seeing now is the best Fred will ever be for us. But what I hope for is that Fred just maintains his consistency/form.
I think similarly with Shaw, though his form has been truly dreadful this year. Absolute slump from his campaign last year and his Euro performances.
I don't expect a great deal of change from him defensively or offensively. At his absolute best he's a solid all-rounder. He's got great control, decent array of passing, strength, speed and he seems mentally composed when he's at his best.
Regarding Fred and Shaw it's just about them maintaining their form or getting them back into it and the same applies to Rashford but the later has so much more to improve upon in his all-round game if he's going to be a consistent name on the team-sheet for me under Hag.
makes way more sense, than what Jamie Jackson said.
Kalvin Phillips walks into our team, he's so much better than anything we have in Midfield by some distance
I don't see ETH taking well to DDG's useless distribution.
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