People learnt absolutely nothing from Fergie. We had two decades of a great manager, and all people took from it was how much time he was given and the "hairdryer treatment". He spoke at great lengths about managing different personalities, generations etc, yet it's all forgotten these days and is a shame really. The saying "you can lead a horse to water..." rings true.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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People learnt absolutely nothing from Fergie. We had two decades of a great manager, and all people took from it was how much time he was given and the "hairdryer treatment". He spoke at great lengths about managing different personalities, generations etc, yet it's all forgotten these days and is a shame really. The saying "you can lead a horse to water..." rings true.
Somehow I imagine getting an underperforming player out of a slump involves a little more nuance than just shouting at them.
I’d love to know which specific players people mean when they say this because most have played for ole and ETH. A couple maybe for Mourinho.
then we’re left with Rashford
He's loving it isn't it, gets a new contract, dutch coaches, potentially new dutch players
He's living the life at Dutch Trafford
He's living the life at Dutch Trafford
Only one of our targets is Dutch. And I think it will help him if his back room team are all Dutch especially one who knows the club very well and one who’s close friends with him and worked with him at Twente. Also having a different personality someone who can lay into players might help also.
Two I thought, De Ligt and Zirkzee? Either way, my post was more tongue in cheek
Having read both his books and various other books about him, documentaries and interviews from others talking about the great man. Probably his best attribute (and that's saying something) was the psychology with which he approached man management from. He analysed people and everything he did was to get the best out of his players so if they were the type of person that needed a boot up the hole like Wes Brown then that's what he did. Conversely for other players like Nani where that approach wouldn't work he wouldn't dream of it. A more arm around the shoulder approach was used.
It's why most manager don't last too long anywhere, even top managers like Mourinho never lasted too long before the players stopped responding to his one size fits all man management methods.
Argh ye. My bad. Forgot about De Ligt. Is De Ligt aswell as Branthwaite? I hope it’s not him instead of. We need 2 CB
10 or so last season left that played under Ole. 6 who played under Jose.
I've pulled at that thread many times in here. Many don't seem to realize just how few players we have left from even 2022. But 9 times out of 10 it usually just boils down to Rashford.
The worst is the people who think he was tactically mediocre and a "vibes" manager simply because he was tactically flexible and not rigidly wedded to one specific philosophy like some of the "hipster" managers today.
Similar to how Ancelotti is perceived by a lot of fans, actually.
I’ve genuinely thought that, where he just swears and it’s almost like he cannot fathom what to say so uses it as filler. It’s very annoying and I’m not sure I’d even listen anymore if I was a player.
Yet it’s the players fault.
You’d love to just tell him to “feck up”
Of course any other conclusion would result in the manager bearing some responsibility.
Yeah , a whole of yelling at millionaires from a rando whose name they probably haven't even heard 2 weeks prior. That's gonna sort out our "softies".
It's more the culture rather than the people. The Glazers and their lackey in the name of Woodward have shifted us from a well oiled meritorcratic based machine, to a club where minimal effort is rewarded with a new contract to protect the "asset's value" usually coupled with insane wages as well.
In such an environment players have quickly learned that they can get away with way more than at any time in the past. There is a reason every single coach since LVG have been saying that we are run not like a football club.
Even the new recruits that walk through the door and become "part of the problem", because they immediately pick up on the culture. The culture has to be addressed first before we are going to stop seeing it. In the past we've had players like Pogba, Lingard and co who were problematic apples. Now we have Sancho, Casemiro, Rashford, Varane.
The good news is that INEOS have recognized this problem and are trying to move away from this model. Hopefully in the the near future this will be nothing more than a footnote in our club's history.
No, Van Der Gaag wanted to be a manager even before ETH joined United. ETH persuaded him to come to United as he needed all the help he can get.
I imagine after last season and now that our management is looking to reshuffle our coaching, he wants to use this as an opportunity to be a manager again.
What you say is logical.
but believe me there were plenty of posters blaming these magical players that apparently had sank multiple managers. It didn’t make sense when anyone stopped to think about it. Which some of them clearly didn’t
People like you really think it's all about the yelling don't you? It's about the discipline - if you don't do as expected, then be prepared to be "sorted out". It's about instilling standards not about what big name coach you have. With Ineos, player power will diminish so those who think they can just throw their toys out of the prams because the manager/coaching team is not treating them like the kings they think they are will have another thing coming.
What I don't like is in first paragraph you just blame in on the players, but regarding England it's apparently on the manager. The thing is, the bolded part can be also applied to United, wouldn't you agree?
It all started with me quoting you on "players going into their shells when facing any kind of adversity", what I simply don't believe to be true. In fact, last season I've seen us fighting well in many games where the main adversity was ridiculous tactics from Ten Hag and injuries.
We've had many games that we fought against the adversities. I don't think that is a problem. We've thrown away games that we felt we were in control, but I don't know what is the explanation for that.
From the players you've mentioned, Lindelof isn't even in the picture, Maguire and McTominay were key players and had good seasons (considering their levels), Wan Bissaka was OK like he always is, and Shaw was injured. Rashford is the only problematic player imo, and personally I'd look to get rid as I'm tired of him, but I also accept he's worth for us more than for the rest of the world so replacing him is very unlikely.
I feel it's the complete opposite. It's individual mentality of Rashford, and probably you can add Casemiro as well last season (who seemed to play football just for fun).
I don't see the team struggling against adversity in general. It's another thing people just say if you asked me.
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Crazy that he turned down the Ajax job really. Can't see him doing better than that right now.
I find it a bit weird the club keep him but reshuffle the coaches around him. Shame about Mitchell van der Gaag, as well. Seemed like a model professional but who knows what happens behind the scenes, right?
Hake and Van Nistelrooy look like good additions. I like what I have seen from Hake in those videos, I just hope the players actually understand what he is saying.
Ten Hag's excuses are all running out. Although the lack of a DoF will certainly be significant disadvantage for the months to come. He must deliver nonetheless.
Hake and Van Nistelrooy look like good additions. I like what I have seen from Hake in those videos, I just hope the players actually understand what he is saying.
Ten Hag's excuses are all running out. Although the lack of a DoF will certainly be significant disadvantage for the months to come. He must deliver nonetheless.
Ajax is a mess anyway. He would be setting himself up for failure.
When he arrived here in 2022, I remember him being linked with a Belgian side. Brugge was it?
Ok fair enough.
Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Shaw and how can you forget your old pal, Lindelof? Maguire came after Mourinho but continued a trend of signing not quite good enough central defenders, so is obviously part of the problem.
That’s over half a team, right there.
Dalot makes seven but would be harsh to consider him part of the problem after the season he just had.
Also doesn’t help that we’ve signed players who haven’t improved us one bit. Antony/Mount. Malacia could have helped us this season as we’ve had no LB all season but him just like Shaw has been injured all season. Mctominay as shown he can come off the bench and maybe make an impact with a goal.
Absolutely. Plus Vareane and Martinez being unable to stay fit and Onana’s (hopeful!) teething pains, as well as too much responsibility on a player who looks a good few years away from being at the level needed (Hojlund). The signings under ETH have compounded long running issues. I’m just disagreeing with the notion that you can’t point to a core of players who have let down multiple managers over the years.
Also. If you’re talking about ETH only you can add Ronaldo, Pogba, Lingard, Bailly, Jones, Telles, De Gea and Van De Beek to the list of inherited problems.
That’s EIGHT players he had to move on and not one of them would make you regret their departure by their careers after United. Which is a hell of a strike rate, when you think about it.
Add those seven to the six who have performed badly under multiple managers and it really brings home the size of the squad overhaul needed when he took the job.
That’s EIGHT players he had to move on and not one of them would make you regret their departure by their careers after United. Which is a hell of a strike rate, when you think about it.
Add those seven to the six who have performed badly under multiple managers and it really brings home the size of the squad overhaul needed when he took the job.
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Lindelof was signed by Mourinho. McTominay was brought through by him.
Rashford, shaw & martial are the only ones here since Lvg
50% of the team has been signed by ETH
Why do we have trace a path all the way back to LvG? Mourinho took over at United seven seasons ago. That’s a fecking lifetime in turns of squad (and manager) turnover. So if we have a big chunk of players still at the club - and still causing the current manager problems - then that confirms the point you’re arguing against. We have a core of players who have been here a very long time and have caused problems for multiple managers over that period of time.
And as far as ETH is concerned, every single sub par player at the club when he took over has been an issue for him. Which is where we add the eight other players he had to ship out, in addition to the six under-achieving players that have been here since Mourinho. And you can add Greenwood and Sancho to those eight he already shipped out. So we now have sixteen players he inherited who have all been a headache to manage. That’s a massive fecking challenge for any manager to deal with.
To be honest, it would be far easier to try and list the player he inherited that are up to scratch for a team with ambitions of winning major trophies. Because that’s a VERY short list indeed.
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I‘m Dutch and more than willing to translate Hake‘s cursing into English for the players.
So much optimism, i hope you are right brother.
It is even more funny considering that we have sacked only 4 managers since SAF left and there is no single player who is still here and who played under Moyes (the first manager we have sacked). There are only two who played under three sacked managers (Shaw and Rashford) who are still here.
Who are these mythical feckers who sacked four managers and are still here
So do I. I am a relentless optimist, but even I have been tested a lot the last ten years. I hope we get to see some of what EtH showed with his Ajax teams here, two of the Ajax iterations were so much fun to watch.
How the hell is this guy getting a new contract? he's lucky enough to see out his last season. Things will hit the fan again if we stutter start in August.
His old contract guarantees veto rights INEOS don't want a manager to have. They needed to negotiate a new deal which guves EtH less power.
Pogba, Lingard, Bailly and Telles didn't play a competitive game under him did they?
Van de Beek was supposed to be an opportunity rather than a 'problem' .
Would also guess the cost to get rid has been lowered, probably in exchange for a pay raise
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