Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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romufc said:
Its funny that he isn't flexible but he built 2 different types of team at Ajax. His first one more possession with false 9 and his second with an out and out 9.

Just because he didn't change his tactics weekly, doesn''t mean he isn't flexible. He changed his style last few games of the season too.
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Do you not think ETH was stubborn and unflexible leading us this season?

Stuck to the same non functioning setup week after week after week. Both from game to game and during games.

Imagine managing Manchester United against Crystal palace and you watch us go down by 1 early on, then by 2 before the break, then you do no changes at half time and you go down by 3 before the 60 minute mark.....
Then imagine your answer to this is to make a single sub: Amrabat in for Antony.
Surprisingly enough this change didn't do magic wonders and you concede a 4th before you make your last change in the 83 minute....
Have you ever seen worse and more stubborn ingame management? Inuries is no excuse for this.

The two wins we got against Brighton and Newcastle at the end of the season, were both wins in which we were the second best team on the pitch. The less said about the two games before that the better.

The big question which is: Does he have the coaching and managing tools to make us play good enough football to give us an edge against the other PL teams? So far we've mainly performed worse than the sum of our parts and I firmly believe "No" is the answer to that question. We will never have an edge on our opponents with ETH at the wheel.
 
Cassidy said:
Its not, England are not the only nation to have a good squad, but agreed he played rubbish football with England.
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Which of these teams did England not have a stronger squad than or were favourites on paper to win against:
Croatia 2018
Italia 2021
?

Overachieving or underachieving?

Did you see how England approached that final?
You should almost believe Southgate thought he was managing Greece 2004....Pathetic!
 
troylocker said:
Which of these teams did England not have a stronger squad than or were favourites on paper to win against:
Croatia 2018
Italia 2021
?

Overachieving or underachieving?

Did you see how England approached that final?
You should almost believe Southgate thought he was managing Greece 2004....Pathetic!
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I would argue that Croatia's midfield and defence in 2018 were far better than England's, but that was not the point. The point was that other teams had comparable/better squads in the competition and, in some cases, did not do as well as England.

The point about playing style I already agree with, but the semis WC and final of Euros are not underachievements. Picking an individual knockout game to describe a whole tournament as an underachievement is silly.
 
troylocker said:
Do you not think ETH was stubborn and unflexible leading us this season?

Stuck to the same non functioning setup week after week after week. Both from game to game and during games.

Imagine managing Manchester United against Crystal palace and you watch us go down by 1 early on, then by 2 before the break, then you do no changes at half time and you go down by 3 before the 60 minute mark.....
Then imagine your answer to this is to make a single sub: Amrabat in for Antony.
Surprisingly enough this change didn't do magic wonders and you concede a 4th before you make your last change in the 83 minute....
Have you ever seen worse and more stubborn ingame management? Inuries is no excuse for this.

The two wins we got against Brighton and Newcastle at the end of the season, were both wins in which we were the second best team on the pitch. The less said about the two games before that the better.

The big question which is: Does he have the coaching and managing tools to make us play good enough football to give us an edge against the other PL teams? So far we've mainly performed worse than the sum of our parts and I firmly believe "No" is the answer to that question. We will never have an edge on our opponents with ETH at the wheel.
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I understand the concerns and I agree this season he was terrible.

However; how many times last season did he change the game via subs?

YEs Imagine managing United where you have to play Casemiro and Evans as your CB pairing and then you wonder why we lose games.

Anyway, lets see this season anyway.
 
troylocker said:
Do you not think ETH was stubborn and unflexible leading us this season?

Stuck to the same non functioning setup week after week after week. Both from game to game and during games.

Imagine managing Manchester United against Crystal palace and you watch us go down by 1 early on, then by 2 before the break, then you do no changes at half time and you go down by 3 before the 60 minute mark.....
Then imagine your answer to this is to make a single sub: Amrabat in for Antony.
Surprisingly enough this change didn't do magic wonders and you concede a 4th before you make your last change in the 83 minute....
Have you ever seen worse and more stubborn ingame management? Inuries is no excuse for this.

The two wins we got against Brighton and Newcastle at the end of the season, were both wins in which we were the second best team on the pitch. The less said about the two games before that the better.

The big question which is: Does he have the coaching and managing tools to make us play good enough football to give us an edge against the other PL teams? So far we've mainly performed worse than the sum of our parts and I firmly believe "No" is the answer to that question. We will never have an edge on our opponents with ETH at the wheel.
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The Palace game was a poor performance in many ways, there wasn‘t much to fix with subs in my opinion:

- we lost the ball constantly
- we did not defend as instructed, we were all over the place

It makes perfect sense to being Amrabat on.

Ten Hag built two good teams at Ajax that were both pretty dominant internationally, sorry to burst your negative bubble.
 
NLunited said:
The Palace game was a poor performance in many ways, there wasn‘t much to fix with subs in my opinion:

- we lost the ball constantly
- we did not defend as instructed, we were all over the place

It makes perfect sense to being Amrabat on.

Ten Hag built two good teams at Ajax that were both pretty dominant internationally, sorry to burst your negative bubble.
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No, that does not count. What you have done in the previous 5/6 years does not count for anything if you messed one season up.

Yet the same people are calling for Tuchel.
 
Sarni said:
Why exactly would he agree to that? It was one of the key conditions for him when he took the job in the first place, he’s not going to give up on that just like that.
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Because his recruite was subpar and he wont be given a deal without that clause. Simple.
 
romufc said:
Its funny that he isn't flexible but he built 2 different types of team at Ajax. His first one more possession with false 9 and his second with an out and out 9.

Just because he didn't change his tactics weekly, doesn''t mean he isn't flexible. He changed his style last few games of the season too.
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Just because he changed it for literally last 3 games of the season doesn't make him a "flexible" coach.

The guy almost died on the stubbornness hill last season, I couldn't care less what anyone says he did in the Netherlands. Sorry, I have been told in the past he will introduce possession based football and the reality is we as far from that playing style as ever, so I don't trust those comments anymore. I have seen enough during his United days.
 
Cassidy said:
He already publically said he was ok with it. It was a key condition because United did not have a good setup, he didn't have this level of control at Ajax
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I'm not sure how much of that goodwill is still there after the whole 'he's leaving/he's staying' debacle. Can he trust them to deliver him the players that he wants and needs if he doesn't have the power to veto transfers? What if they end up buying him loads of players that do not suit his vision? There are too many uncertainties over new 'structure' for him to agree to that IMO, at least I would not if I were him. They need to gain his trust.
 
Sarni said:
I'm not sure how much of that goodwill is still there after the whole 'he's leaving/he's staying' debacle. Can he trust them to deliver him the players that he wants and needs if he doesn't have the power to veto transfers? What if they end up buying him loads of players that do not suit his vision?
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Considering his public appearance on Dutch TV where he said this was after the debacle...
 
NLunited said:
The Palace game was a poor performance in many ways, there wasn‘t much to fix with subs in my opinion:

- we lost the ball constantly
- we did not defend as instructed, we were all over the place

It makes perfect sense to being Amrabat on.

Ten Hag built two good teams at Ajax that were both pretty dominant internationally, sorry to burst your negative bubble.
Click to expand...

They weren’t that dominant internationally they got knocked out by Benfica in only the first round of the knock out fase.
 
Amsterdam Devil said:
They weren’t that dominant internationally they got knocked out by Benfica in only the first round of the knock out fase.
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So? Does that wipe out a perfect group phase? Benfica beat us by playing defensively and gambling on set pieces+counters. It happens.
 
NLunited said:
So? Does that wipe out a perfect group phase? Benfica beat us by playing defensively and gambling on set pieces+counters. It happens.
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Ofcourse you’re right but you can’t say they were dominant internationally then, that is just not true. City is dominant internationally, Real is, Bayern used to be, Barcelona used to be, United used to be, Ajax was in de 90’s. But this was one great season and one season that ended in disappointment. That is not dominant internationally.
 
Borys said:
Just because he changed it for literally last 3 games of the season doesn't make him a "flexible" coach.

The guy almost died on the stubbornness hill last season, I couldn't care less what anyone says he did in the Netherlands. Sorry, I have been told in the past he will introduce possession based football and the reality is we as far from that playing style as ever, so I don't trust those comments anymore. I have seen enough during his United days.
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Just because he had one terrible season, doesn't make him a bad coach either.

I dont think he ever said he will be possession based, so you are mis profiling him as a manager. He has said he wants to be the best transitional team.
 
romufc said:
Just because he had one terrible season, doesn't make him a bad coach either.

I dont think he ever said he will be possession based, so you are mis profiling him as a manager. He has said he wants to be the best transitional team.
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Let me help here

“I think we have two top departments, attacking and defending, and a big gap in between, and that cost us a lot of energy,” he said. “We got into a tennis match and we don’t want to play tennis, we want to play football.
“We want to keep the ball, keep possession, recognise when to speed up and go for goal, but it cost us too much energy. The backline took a lot of risk and when it was difficult to get back we got stretched.
“It’s the next step we have to make and we are still in the process.”
~ Eric Ten Hag, Wednesday 04 January 2023

Our manager said this 1 year, 5 months and 21 days ago, which is 538 days. Funny thing is, I actually thought he is the guy to take us to the next level after that comment. What's not funny is he has taken us in the opposite direction since that time, which is by the way not effective and appalling for the eye. What do you make of that?
 
The contract extension is more to strengthen our hand rather than necessarily rewarding ETH personally. Players aren’t going to join if a manager they like and who can promise them significant game time is only on a year or less long contract, because of the risk the new manager may not fancy them playing as much based on that new manager’s preference and they’re tied into a big contract.

And I have no doubt there’s probably some additional performance related clauses in there that make it easier to sack him if we’re looking as rubbish as we did most of last season by October/November time.

I am interested to see how this potential RVN link plays out. If Mitchell van der Gaag is kicked out for him then I get the feeling the writings already on the wall for ETH. It would remind me of the time when Rodgers had his Liverpool coaches axed and was then given Sean O’Driscoll and Gary McAllister in the 2015 summer, which lasted about two months.
 
troylocker said:
Do you not think ETH was stubborn and unflexible leading us this season?

Stuck to the same non functioning setup week after week after week. Both from game to game and during games.

Imagine managing Manchester United against Crystal palace and you watch us go down by 1 early on, then by 2 before the break, then you do no changes at half time and you go down by 3 before the 60 minute mark.....
Then imagine your answer to this is to make a single sub: Amrabat in for Antony.
Surprisingly enough this change didn't do magic wonders and you concede a 4th before you make your last change in the 83 minute....
Have you ever seen worse and more stubborn ingame management? Inuries is no excuse for this.

The two wins we got against Brighton and Newcastle at the end of the season, were both wins in which we were the second best team on the pitch. The less said about the two games before that the better.

The big question which is: Does he have the coaching and managing tools to make us play good enough football to give us an edge against the other PL teams? So far we've mainly performed worse than the sum of our parts and I firmly believe "No" is the answer to that question. We will never have an edge on our opponents with ETH at the wheel.
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Funnily he changed tactics when Wilcox became his gaffer.
 
OsloRed said:
We knew this would happen when he kept his job.
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Yeah but it still sucks. Much better to have this year as a trial, if he does well, extend it during the season.

I think it is very likely that we’ll extend, he’ll be as useless as last season and then we sack him around Christmas for a repeat of Mourinho/Ole scenario.
 
Good news on the contract extension. Who else is there available, realistically? If there were any strong candidates i'd be open to exploring but.. there aren't. Just have to hope he moves on from some of his stubbornness that we saw last season and the club is able to support him, at least moderately in the market, in the positions we need. Lots of ifs and buts but i'd much rather he signs a contract than goes into the wilderness of last year on the contract. Come on Erik!
 
Shark said:
Erik simply has to start the season strongly new contract or not, the first quarter of the season will decide his fate. There's simply no way INEOS will tolerate another season outside of the CL
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Can you also quote my “shit” a little further up into your reply. I have a really good response to your post
 
I thought he was going to be sacked after the FA Cup final regardless of the outcome? The Guardian got it horribly wrong
 
roseguy64 said:
You have to be an elite striker to be a good striker coach? Interesting.
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Yeah my bad. It would be better if we got an elite-level defender to teach our misfiring strikers how to score. Yes, of course a former pretty good striker may be good enough. But it didn't work out.
 
I hope all the posters that are pro ETH and compared his first two years in the job to Klopp and Arteta are expecting the same level of improvement they did.

Klopp finished 4th and made a CL Final and Arteta put up a title challenge. ETH should be held to this level according to these posters.
 
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