Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Expected. Don't understand some of the drama on here.

New management comes in and changes the way things run. They inform the manager as to how things will be run from now on. Manager agrees and they put that in writing by signing a legally binding document that stipulates all of the above.

Oh the horror. We are getting relegated :lol:
 
Yeah but it still sucks. Much better to have this year as a trial, if he does well, extend it during the season.

I think it is very likely that we’ll extend, he’ll be as useless as last season and then we sack him around Christmas for a repeat of Mourinho/Ole scenario.

There is almost no chance that we sack him this season I think, barring a disaster.
 
Expected. Don't understand some of the drama on here.

New management comes in and changes the way things run. They inform the manager as to how things will be run from now on. Manager agrees and they put that in writing by signing a legally binding document that stipulates all of the above.

Oh the horror. We are getting relegated :lol:
There is almost no chance that we sack him this season I think, barring a disaster.

If you're not convinced by Ten Hag, then not giving him a new contract will mean a cheaper pay off if / when he does get sacked. We have a contract extension (+1 yr) option if we start to do really well that we can trigger. Noone's really falling over themselves to poach him from us, so that's not a concern either. The only reason to give out a contract is to give him some additional credibility in the eyes of players, staff etc.

Anyway, INEOS have been pretty stingy with money they pay out. I trust they have some protections in-place like a pay-off clause if we don't hit targets (EL qualification, CL qualification etc.). No objections to extending if we can sack him for some reasonable amount if we finish 8th again next year.
 
Expected. Don't understand some of the drama on here.

New management comes in and changes the way things run. They inform the manager as to how things will be run from now on. Manager agrees and they put that in writing by signing a legally binding document that stipulates all of the above.

Oh the horror. We are getting relegated :lol:

Some 30-40% of posters here read probably the last one or two pages of posts, at the most. It was weird at the beginning, as I thought that they were genuinely trolling. But I still see people suggesting we sign Todibo from Nice, that we need to spend 400m this summer, why is Ten Hag getting a new contract? Good thing is that the Qatar chatter dialed down. In general, things that have been explained so many times on the forum get asked about again and again.

Hence, drama is expected :).
 
Expected. Don't understand some of the drama on here.

New management comes in and changes the way things run. They inform the manager as to how things will be run from now on. Manager agrees and they put that in writing by signing a legally binding document that stipulates all of the above.

Oh the horror. We are getting relegated :lol:
Rubbish. He should be nowhere near a new contract. Have you watched last season?

He's shit and it will be proven if it's next year or the one after that.
 
I hope all the posters that are pro ETH and compared his first two years in the job to Klopp and Arteta are expecting the same level of improvement they did.

Klopp finished 4th and made a CL Final and Arteta put up a title challenge. ETH should be held to this level according to these posters.
So it's that simple? No need to take into account the quality of the squad or opposition?

Just, well it's been 3 years so...

You're doing Terrance Howard math bro; 1x1=2
 
I hope all the posters that are pro ETH and compared his first two years in the job to Klopp and Arteta are expecting the same level of improvement they did.

Klopp finished 4th and made a CL Final and Arteta put up a title challenge. ETH should be held to this level according to these posters.

My feelings as well. He kept his job, won the FA Cup but he has a mountain to climb to get a sizeable amount of fans like me back on side. I was expecting him to get sacked because the nature of how we dumped out of Europe and the bad results and performances for the entire season. If we were performing better after the European exit, I would have been more forgiving but the performances and results were just as bad as they were after the exit (if not worse).

There needs to be performances and results right from the off for me. No more excuses. Injuries won’t cut it for me. The fact that injuries kept happening throughout the season changed my feelings from it being rotten luck to possible gross negligence from a coaching perspective. He should know the lay of the land with this squad and English football in general in his third season here.

He cannot complain he’s not backed
 
I hope all the posters that are pro ETH and compared his first two years in the job to Klopp and Arteta are expecting the same level of improvement they did.

Klopp finished 4th and made a CL Final and Arteta put up a title challenge. ETH should be held to this level according to these posters.
SAF was their preferred example of what he's going to be given time.
 
Some of our fans are for surprise next year.
I don’t think it’s something that will necessarily be tangibly felt next season neither positively nor negatively. We’re looking at a decade plus of grossly unqualified people above the manager having their hand in building the squad, including a few signings that were forced on the managers by the owners themselves. Why would any manager in their right mind agree to collaborate with that?
 
I hope all the posters that are pro ETH and compared his first two years in the job to Klopp and Arteta are expecting the same level of improvement they did.

Klopp finished 4th and made a CL Final and Arteta put up a title challenge. ETH should be held to this level according to these posters.
Arteta put up a title challenge in his first two years?
 
I hope all the posters that are pro ETH and compared his first two years in the job to Klopp and Arteta are expecting the same level of improvement they did.

Klopp finished 4th and made a CL Final and Arteta put up a title challenge. ETH should be held to this level according to these posters.

And you can write us a groveling apology when we're Top 4 this season
 
I keep hearing that but don’t understand why. The guy has even less coaching experience than Ole did

The question is coming up because it seems like a bit of a left field coaching appointment. I’m not suggesting he’s guaranteed a manager position, thinking moreso that he could be a potential promoted coach, ala Pep at Barca , if his coaching fitted in with the longer term club plan.

Neither Pep or Zidane had any managerial pedigree when they took over Barca/madrid, but the clubs were setup in a manner that meant it didn’t matter. That’s what I’ve always wanted with United and why I never thought a world class proven manager was what we needed to get back to the top.
 
The question is coming up because it seems like a bit of a left field coaching appointment. I’m not suggesting he’s guaranteed a manager position, thinking moreso that he could be a potential promoted coach, ala Pep at Barca , if his coaching fitted in with the longer term club plan.

Neither Pep or Zidane had any managerial pedigree when they took over Barca/madrid, but the clubs were setup in a manner that meant it didn’t matter.
But it’s so completely leftfield that I think it’s not more than him doing coaching work. Frankly the PSV fans don’t speak in glowing terms of his management spell
 
And you can write us a groveling apology when we're Top 4 this season
He's saying top 4 isn't enough this season. We have to challenge for the PL or reach a CL final and finish inside the top 4.

Even though I disagree, I think it's understandable going by his reasoning. Personally, I'm fine with top 4 this season so long as we develop a progressive style of play, and play that way on a consistent basis. Then, next season, the minimum expectation would be to challenge after a season of perfecting our style.

It all comes down to this transfer window, though. We have to get this one right to have any chance of progressing under ten Hag.
 
But it’s so completely leftfield that I think it’s not more than him doing coaching work. Frankly the PSV fans don’t speak in glowing terms of his management spell

Maybe , just seems a bit weird that he’d take a coaching role over a managerial role at Burnley. Would love to pick his brain on why he might do that.
 
Arteta put up a title challenge in his first two years?
In his third full season. My point was people compared their first two seasons so the third better go as Arteta and Klopp’s did.

And you can write us a groveling apology when we're Top 4 this season
Both did a lot more than just finish top 4. But I suppose even if we finish out of the CL spots you’ll have a fresh excuse ready.

He's saying top 4 isn't enough this season. We have to challenge for the PL or reach a CL final and finish inside the top 4.

Even though I disagree, I think it's understandable going by his reasoning. Personally, I'm fine with top 4 this season so long as we develop a progressive style of play, and play that way on a consistent basis. Then, next season, the minimum expectation would be to challenge after a season of perfecting our style.

It all comes down to this transfer window, though. We have to get this one right to have any chance of progressing under ten Hag.
The funny thing is I disagree too. It’s unrealistic for us to improve to that level but for those that compared his impact after two seasons to Klopp and Arteta, that must be what they are expecting right.
 
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Watching Southgate makes me appreciate Ten Hag a lot more

At least he attacks, trusts youth and is bold. I’d take finishing 17th with Ten Hag than 2nd with Southgate. Be a much better season still.
 
Good news at last.

I don't understand how you can think he's the problem, after all the successive coaches and his first big season.
 
Maybe , just seems a bit weird that he’d take a coaching role over a managerial role at Burnley. Would love to pick his brain on why he might do that.
well when he was offered the PSV job, he said that he wasn’t ready, and wanted to do coaching. PSV eventually talked him into it. I think people are assuming that he’s more ready than perhaps he feels himself
 
Show me a quote from one manager that says they dont like to keep possession.
You said " I dont think he ever said he will be possession based", which I have proven to be false with actual quote from Ten Hag. In fact in this post match comments indicate he wanted to avoid EXACTLY the issues that in the next season his team setup exposed to an extremum. This is hilarious quote in that context.

What is your point exactly? That he's a "flexible" coach because despite sticking to CLEARLY not working setup for 95% of the season, he changed it for the last 3 games?
 
well when he was offered the PSV job, he said that he wasn’t ready, and wanted to do coaching. PSV eventually talked him into it. I think people are assuming that he’s more ready than perhaps he feels himself

Maybe it’s that simple, I hadn’t been following it much to be fair.
 
You said " I dont think he ever said he will be possession based", which I have proven to be false with actual quote from Ten Hag. In fact in this post match comments indicate he wanted to avoid EXACTLY the issues that in the next season his team setup exposed to an extremum. This is hilarious quote in that context.

What is your point exactly? That he's a "flexible" coach because despite sticking to CLEARLY not working setup for 95% of the season, he changed it for the last 3 games?

Its clear you dont understand so no point going back and forth.
 
Without question, United has been a blotch on every manager hired since SAF. I had to laugh at the BBC story about Ragnick supposedly being a laughing stock at United and now he’s amazballs. Most of the comments correctly point out the only laughing stock was and is United.

The best clubs don’t need a world class manager to get success. I cant think of a basket case club like United , consistently under performing for over a decade, wasting massive amounts of money , who properly succeeded with a top class manager and if there are examples they are few and far between. I can think of plenty of examples were average managers won top trophies.

United has been a mess for 11 years. No manager could have made it work. No manager was able to make it work. Jose was the 2nd best manager in the world when he joined (he beat pep with Madrid) , people forget how high his stock was when he joined. Just like Harry Stamper in Armageddon, Jose has NEVER failed to meet a target at any club he had worked at before managing United. United was the outlier in his career. We will never know if he could of continued his upper trajectory with United because the club pulled the rug from under him after he’d gotten us 2nd spot, our joint best position in 11 years.

Indeed United is an outlier in all United managers and most United players careers for all the wrong reasons. This is not a coincidence.

Just writing this, again, for the people who seem to just not get it. A lot of fans aren’t “give the manager more and it might work out” because they adore the manager or have some weird desire to see managers get long contracts. It’s because they/we see the issues within the club as a bigger problem then finding a Jesus/messiah level manager to make fawlty towers Trafford somehow work.
 
Without question, United has been a blotch on every manager hired since SAF. I had to laugh at the BBC story about Ragnick supposedly being a laughing stock at United and now he’s amazballs. Most of the comments correctly point out the only laughing stock was and is United.

The best clubs don’t need a world class manager to get success. I cant think of a basket case club like United , consistently under performing for over a decade, wasting massive amounts of money , who properly succeeded with a top class manager and if there are examples they are few and far between. I can think of plenty of examples were average managers won top trophies.

United has been a mess for 11 years. No manager could have made it work. No manager was able to make it work. Jose was the 2nd best manager in the world when he joined (he beat pep with Madrid) , people forget how high his stock was when he joined. Just like Harry Stamper in Armageddon, Jose has NEVER failed to meet a target at any club he had worked at before managing United. United was the outlier in his career. We will never know if he could of continued his upper trajectory with United because the club pulled the rug from under him after he’d gotten us 2nd spot, our joint best position in 11 years.

Indeed United is an outlier in all United managers and most United players careers for all the wrong reasons. This is not a coincidence.

Just writing this, again, for the people who seem to just not get it. A lot of fans aren’t “give the manager more and it might work out” because they adore the manager or have some weird desire to see managers get long contracts. It’s because they/we see the issues within the club as a bigger problem then finding a Jesus/messiah level manager to make fawlty towers Trafford somehow work.

A lot of clubs have issues, make a managerial change, see an upward trend and suddenly the 'problems' are less so. Hell even in ETHs first season people weren't talking about all these issues. Look at Villa, near relegation and Emery takes them to top 4. Ange at Spurs, who were in the doldrums and had just sold their best player without replacing him, and they look like they're well on the right path. Spurs have chopped and changed DoFs and those in these sorts of positions and it's not stopped them playing good football. And their actual squad isn't a shade on what we have. At the end of the day, things going on behind the scenes don't stop anybody from excelling on match day. Besides, it is possible to tackle multiple issues at once.
 
Why on earth would his title change?

Probably from manager to first team head coach, where typically the latter has less power at the club in regards to transfers among other things.

I think Pochettino went from head coach to manager at Spurs, which saw Paul Mitchell leave and Pochettino reportedly having more control over recruitment as Mitchell left.
 
Why on earth would his title change?

New title “bald is best”
A lot of clubs have issues, make a managerial change, see an upward trend and suddenly the 'problems' are less so. Hell even in ETHs first season people weren't talking about all these issues. Look at Villa, near relegation and Emery takes them to top 4. Ange at Spurs, who were in the doldrums and had just sold their best player without replacing him, and they look like they're well on the right path. Spurs have chopped and changed DoFs and those in these sorts of positions and it's not stopped them playing good football. And their actual squad isn't a shade on what we have. At the end of the day, things going on behind the scenes don't stop anybody from excelling on match day. Besides, it is possible to tackle multiple issues at once.

But United aren’t comparable with those clubs. What issues do city , Madrid, Barca , Bayern have with changing managers ? Why do those clubs change managers and not need entire rebuilds everytime? Why can those clubs have ok managers that still win trophies ?

Some will say, “the strength of the EPL” but that doesn’t actually explain anything. The spending United have done is a multiple of all but maybe 2 other clubs in England. Massive spending should, in theory, make it near on impossible for United to finish outside the top 4 in England with even a sub par manager. And it doesn’t explain why United can seldom get to the CL quarter finals.

Avram grant , Di matteo, pelligrini, Mancini , Ranieri, Rodgers (2nd with pool), poch (spurs). Do people honestly think any of these lads would have gotten United to the cusp of a league/CL Double, 2nd spot or a league ?

Tuchel winning the CL with Chelsea , did similar to Di matteo. Almost like the squad was strong enough on its own to achieve top things in the right conditions. Not comparing managers as Tuchel is clearly vastly superior, but why were chelsea able to win 2 European cups like that and nearly a double with Avram grant ?

It wasn’t just because they hired/fired quickly , that doesn’t explain low quality managers doing well. They had a system that worked , a Squad that was strong and a culture of ruthlessly moving on deadwood and getting in players needed. Not hanging onto players for years and forcing managers to just make it work like they do at United.

I’m not saying we should do exactly what Chelsea did under Roman, but I’m saying they had a club structure that worked under multiple managers and was setup to always maintain a strong squad. Any manager taking over Chelsea inherited a very strong squad that seldom needed full over hauls.

This is why it’s harder to judge United managers. They could walk into Chelsea , make a few tweaks and they’d be good to go. At United, they’d always have a disjointed squad , multiple positions lacking, players with long expensive contracts that the club couldn’t or wouldn’t sell, usually some drama with some players and the club struggled to get primary targets or over pats for them leaving us short in other areas.

On paper the spending migh be the same or higher then Chelsea or others “he spent 400 million” but in truth that headline figure was no comparison with the mess at United versus more settled clubs who don’t need as much squad additions for their new manager. In short; if you were taking over United the last 10 years versus any other comparable club our size, you were already at a massive disadvantage to an opposing manager.
 
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Its clear you dont understand so no point going back and forth.
Fact 1: Ten Hag has said 538 days ago he wants us to keep possession and avoid playing tennis games
Fact 2: Ten Hag has done the complete opposite since that time, turned us into being a "transition-based" ETH style team - what is a fancy word for what used to be "Ole ball", but worse as leaves us completely open as attacking formation and defensive line are stretched too much
Fact 3: Ten Hag stuck to his bad ideas/execution for 95% of the season, then changed to more pragmatic/classic counter attacking approach for the last few games - what a "great coach" achievement!

You have a point to prove then come up with some arguments, don't give me that "find me a quote" bs.
All your points have been invalid so far as I've shown you already, so there's nothing more to talk about indeed.
 
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I hope all the posters that are pro ETH and compared his first two years in the job to Klopp and Arteta are expecting the same level of improvement they did.

Klopp finished 4th and made a CL Final and Arteta put up a title challenge. ETH should be held to this level according to these posters.

:boring::boring::boring:
 
I hope all the posters that are pro ETH and compared his first two years in the job to Klopp and Arteta are expecting the same level of improvement they did.

Klopp finished 4th and made a CL Final and Arteta put up a title challenge. ETH should be held to this level according to these posters.
I don't think that is necessarily fair. Arteta and Klopp had been working under proper footballing structure for much longer prior to their successful seasons. This will be the first year of ETH working under footballing structure, so technically year 1 of his proper job, his goals should be more aligned with their initial seasons.

If he can deliver top 5-6 spot next year, it will be considered a success.
 
I don't think that is necessarily fair. Arteta and Klopp had been working under proper footballing structure for much longer prior to their successful seasons. This will be the first year of ETH working under footballing structure, so technically year 1 of his proper job, his goals should be more aligned with their initial seasons.

If he can deliver top 5-6 spot next year, it will be considered a success.

Not year 1 because the Structure isn’t even in place yet. Year 1 will be 25/26 when Ashworth can start helping ETH to build the team. Based on that we should be happy enough if he keeps us in the top half next season.
 
Without question, United has been a blotch on every manager hired since SAF. I had to laugh at the BBC story about Ragnick supposedly being a laughing stock at United and now he’s amazballs. Most of the comments correctly point out the only laughing stock was and is United.

The best clubs don’t need a world class manager to get success. I cant think of a basket case club like United , consistently under performing for over a decade, wasting massive amounts of money , who properly succeeded with a top class manager and if there are examples they are few and far between. I can think of plenty of examples were average managers won top trophies.

United has been a mess for 11 years. No manager could have made it work. No manager was able to make it work. Jose was the 2nd best manager in the world when he joined (he beat pep with Madrid) , people forget how high his stock was when he joined. Just like Harry Stamper in Armageddon, Jose has NEVER failed to meet a target at any club he had worked at before managing United. United was the outlier in his career. We will never know if he could of continued his upper trajectory with United because the club pulled the rug from under him after he’d gotten us 2nd spot, our joint best position in 11 years.

Indeed United is an outlier in all United managers and most United players careers for all the wrong reasons. This is not a coincidence.

Just writing this, again, for the people who seem to just not get it. A lot of fans aren’t “give the manager more and it might work out” because they adore the manager or have some weird desire to see managers get long contracts. It’s because they/we see the issues within the club as a bigger problem then finding a Jesus/messiah level manager to make fawlty towers Trafford somehow work.

Great post, I’m in complete agreement. The downside of having the greatest manager in history for 26 years is that the club and its fanbase have a massive cult of manager syndrome. Regarding Rangnick, yes United were the laughing stock amongst general football fans, but just look at how United fans perceived him. He got abuse nonstop for being in the middle of this chaos and calling it out. But I suppose when the lunatics run the asylum the sane person is one that looks crazy.
 
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