Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

To be fair to ETH, he had John Murtough as DOF who basically is an appointment within and has no track records. He has been a key member in Ed regime with more than a decade of unprecedented failure.

Nothing at the club works. Scouting, recruitment, medical, fitness, negotiation, contract and whatnot. How you expect a manager in such a big club to succeed? I think this is what Ineos Team review found out.

Maybe with proper structure it could work. Let's trust Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox and ETH one more year since the decision have been made

Not that I, who has been ETH out since forever have much choice here, but that seem strangely fair.

 

[Woziak]

Ten Hag not just a bad manager who's lacking certain skills and knowledge but a pretty embarrassing figure too. He just keeps repeating his cliché sentences like "i see we are getting better" and "i see the development" and so on and literally everyone's laughing at him (and the club) including the majority of United fans. Not to mention his extremely "succesful" signings like the worst joke Antony, Malacia (anyone remembers him?), Amrabat, whatever. Awful in every aspect.

What’s worse is now he’s starting to finally show backbone, slurs on Tuchel and Southgate, I mean United just had Southgate Ball for the whole season with ETH but he criticises Southgate?

He’s coming out so cocky, “ineos are new to football”whilst I quite like this version of ETH he’s put even more pressure on his shoulders, he needs an outstanding start now or is he’s gone, I wouldn’t be surprised that Ineos have a break clause in his new contract that no one knows about that stipulates if after 10 pl games he has less than 18 points, a negative GD and are not in top 5, he can be sacked with all his staff for £5m?

He’s also clearly trying to get De Ligt and FDJ as his men to try and prove a point, if the club back him with £90-95m for both of these and £25m per year in wages then they really are novices in this indistry!

 

[Adisa]

It's good to see the usual suspects frothing in the mouth.

 

[stefan92]

INEOS haven't exactly covered themselves in glory so far, for sure. But if those two are at odds, there's ultimately only going to be one who's got to budge, and that's ten Hag. Also, a revamp and strategy can only come from one place, and it's not ten Hag. He can obstruct, he cannot create. And an obstructed strategy is even worse than a bad one.

In any case, I think we must hope that when Berrada and Ashworth is in place, that's where the shots will get called. Not having managed that by the start of the window is perhaps INEOS' worst failure.

That's a fair assessment. But playing devil's advocate here, what can EtH obstruct by clinging to his current rights? A bad structure to do even more damage. And that's not necessarily worse than executing a bad strategy.

And to me it feels like this is where EtH stands at the moment: Thinking INEOS are a bunch of inexperienced clowns who don't do stuff the right way he likes it to be done. And after all that happened (and didn't happen) in the last weeks you can't blame him for that. This is entirely on INEOS not being able to get a competent structure in place before trying to make bold moves (like replacing the manager). It doesn't make much sense how this saga went.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Stop mentioning Southgate. Could cause cosmic alignment of the worst kind

Southgate isn't going anywhere near club football management job after he leaves England.

He'll get some kind of club academy director type job somewhere and that will be that.

There is zero evidence that United are/were interested in him.

 

[NLunited]

Ten Hag not just a bad manager who's lacking certain skills and knowledge but a pretty embarrassing figure too. He just keeps repeating his cliché sentences like "i see we are getting better" and "i see the development" and so on and literally everyone's laughing at him (and the club) including the majority of United fans. Not to mention his extremely "succesful" signings like the worst joke Antony, Malacia (anyone remembers him?), Amrabat, whatever. Awful in every aspect.

80% at least of the fans are behind him.

INEOS ain’t laughing either, they have to try to fix the relationship with him to move forward.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Ten Hag had several interviews for the Nice job the year before he came here, how INEOS work shouldn't be a surprise to him.

 

[romufc]

Medical staff in the sense that there is clearly a disconnect between the gaffer and the med staff with so many injuries and it is the manager’s responsibility to sort that and ensure that ultimately he makes the right decisions on fitness. He clearly clearly hasn’t - it’s not just bad luck. Shaw has already said he was asked to play when on the verge. Martinez is another case in point I reckon. My view is that ETH was desperate at points during the season and gambled on fitness. This was in the context of choosing not to adapt his low block high press lunacy and perhaps using the players he did have available in a more conservative formation.

min terms of the dressing room, my only point was that it’s unlikely the players would be so distraught with him leaving the INEOS would have to take it into consideration before telling him to pack his bags.

Clearly, you have not read the Athletic report?

We didnt have a club doctor till late July last year. So it isn't luck but rather the managers responsibility that Varane kept getting injured who was the same before he came, Ten Hag's fault that Coufal barged into Lisandro? Ten Hag's fault that Hojlund came with a back injury? Oh it must be Ten Hag's fault that Amad and Mainoo picked up injuries in pre season.

Shaw has said the manager asked can he play, he could have said no, Shaw is also a player that is always injured, its not new to Ten Hag.

I mean every manager gambles on players fitness, I remember Fergie gambled on Rooney in CL against Bayern.

I cant believe you are blaming injuries on Ten Hag, it just shows the agenda.

Distragught and liking a manager are massive, no player is distraught unless its Klopp, Pep.

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

It’s unprofessional as you’re inevitably going to be asked about your club situation, as happened here, which you really shouldn’t be commenting on.

You’re also going to have to make public comments on players who may later turn out to be transfer targets. It’s an inherent conflict of interest. I’m surprised we allowed it.

He gets asked about club situation hundreds of times a year by the media. I don't think theres anything in it as long as he answers professionally. Same with comments on players; he's allowed an opinion on players performances and this should be welcomed. I like the fact that we get to see a human side of a manager in the off season personally but acknowledge that he has to remember his employer is Man Utd. I dont think he said anything wrong in his comments though.

 

[Leftback99]

From the outside he's on rocky ground with both INEOS and the players. Hard to see it ending well.

 

[Cloud7]

After thinking about it some more, these quotes have made me laugh a bit more than they initially did.

INEOS got the manager they wanted, and he's laid some of his cards on the table in public. They made it clear that he's the man they want to continue, seemingly without agreeing whatever new terms they want to with him. It's proper amateur hour, and in his position why would ETH not take advantage of the position of advantage that INEOS have put him in.

To be clear, can you imagine a club administration telling Jose or Pep "Hey we've been talking to other managers to see if we want to replace you with them, but we didn't really like them so we decided we want you to stay on. Oh but also we need to change some of the stuff in your current contract." And then on top of that to brief that they have decided to stick with him without first agreeing to these new terms.

The way this has been handled has been a joke.

 

[kaku06]

It's good to see the usual suspects frothing at the mouth.

Fixed.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

From made-up achievement, to weak achievement, what will your next term be? Sounds like a true Real Madrid fan by the way, some clubs there main target is to reach the group stage. Others to qualify to knockouts etc. It was disappointing to exit vs Benfica in a quite even match-up that could have gone either way, but that group stage is something that no Ajax fan will forget any time soon. Beating Dortmund with Haaland/Bellingham home and away, was one of the most exciting moments for Ajax fans in the past 5 years.

By your reasoning then it's also a big achievement for Benfica to have qualified from a group with Bayern and Barcelona and then eliminated an Ajax that won all 6 group stage games. Would you like to hire the managers who achieved this? Benfica themselves fired one (Jorge Jesus) and the other was a caretaker currently managing their B team.

 

[TsuWave]

We kept Ten Hag because of his past CV and the fact that he won 2 trophies with United in 2 years, something we haven't seen since Mourinho's first season. We also kept him because quite frankly it ain't like Guardiola or Klopp are on the market. The managers you want to replace him with are subpar replacements coming off from bad seasons to put it mildly. And Ten Hag has earned his trust given the amount of issues he had to deal with this season and the overperforming in the first season.

Ten Hag's CV is a CL semi run and titles with Ajax, but we've already seen how multi league titles with Ajax don't mean much in the prem.

"2 trophies" - both trophies being cups. One a fairly minor one, and the other the FA Cup. Truthfully, two trophies that are only really hyped when you're club isn't competing for what's really important. League title and Champions league. Your assessment of Tuchel was "the only noteworthy thing to his name is the CL he won with Chelsea... something ANY manager can do since it's a cup competition." You can't then turn around and say "2 trophies" for Ten Hag, as if we're not aware of what those trophies were. Is it Oochie Wally Wally or is it One Mic?

Klopp and Guardiola tier of managers are seldom on the market. That's a non-factor. Ten Hag is miles away from being close to that standard/caliber. He's very much in the same tier of upcoming managers that were being discussed to replace him.

Manager's have to deal with setbacks and hindrances, it is literally the point of a manager. If you just wanted a figurehead for when everything's running dandy, then even I could step-in and do OK. If winning the FA Cup after overseeing our worst prem campaign ever is enough to win your trust then fair enough, I'm not questioning that. I didn't even question you being for Ten Hag. I just find it amusing how you said "CL is a cup competition that can be won by any manager", then turned around and said "two trophieee. earned my trust".

We kept Ten Hag because Tuchel said no.

I wasn't even aware of this. Not that I doubt you, but source please.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Some of the Interview

 

[AjaxCunian]

Ratcliffe repeated the message that so many different managers have failed since Sir Alex Ferguson. Not all of them were bad, or unfit. So he drew the conclusion that the conditions for the manager to be working in, need to be optimalised so that the first team performs to their best ability.

He then goes on to create another terrible condition for his coach, CEO that starts only next month, no sporting director for the foreseeable future, manager/players in so much uncertainty. Amazing.

 

[stefan92]

Ratcliffe repeated the message that so many different managers have failed since Sir Alex Ferguson. Not all of them were bad, or unfit. So he drew the conclusion that the conditions for the manager to be working in, need to be optimalised so that the first team performs to their best ability.

He then goes on to create another terrible condition for his coach, CEO that starts only next month, no sporting director for the foreseeable future, manager/players in so much uncertainty. Amazing.

And entirely predictable... I mean... for how long have we known that Ashworth will not come to United any earlier than late this summer?

 

[Drainy]

And entirely predictable... I mean... for how long have we known that Ashworth will not come to United any earlier than late this summer?

Regardless, unless the club really mess up the transfer window (in which case the owners need to assess a realistic target as the league could be very competitive) or there is another injury crisis that isn't the managers fault, the expectation is top 4 and compete for trophies and if that's not met he's toast

 

[NotChatGPT]

Ratcliffe repeated the message that so many different managers have failed since Sir Alex Ferguson. Not all of them were bad, or unfit. So he drew the conclusion that the conditions for the manager to be working in, need to be optimalised so that the first team performs to their best ability.

He then goes on to create another terrible condition for his coach, CEO that starts only next month, no sporting director for the foreseeable future, manager/players in so much uncertainty. Amazing.

How has he created a terrible condition, the conditions haven't changed. Getting the right people in place just takes longer than expected.

Which is also part of the point that plenty of us have tried to make, this isn't an ideal time to bring in someone new.

 

[AjaxCunian]

By your reasoning then it's also a big achievement for Benfica to have qualified from a group with Bayern and Barcelona and then eliminated an Ajax that won all 6 group stage games. Would you like to hire the managers who achieved this? Benfica themselves fired one (Jorge Jesus) and the other was a caretaker currently managing their B team.

Now you've taken it to 'big' achievements, great. Wonder where you'll take it next time.

Your point is silly, because I'm sure you would look at a body of achievements and also disappointments when hiring a manager. Just because some achievements are greater/better than others, do not mean that the others aren't achievements. Sure the CL-semi final is one of the biggest accolades in his career, but it surely isnt the only one as some of you have been alluding to. Erik ten Hag finished #1 in four of his four full seasons, whilst winning the KNVB-Beker in 2 out of the 3 times, runner up the other time (talking about his full seasons).

Sure Ajax is the biggest team in the Netherlands, but his achievements likely make him a top-3/top-4 performing coach at Ajax ever and likely top 5 in the Eredivisie. So no, it's not just one CL campaign and two cups at United.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Interview was pretty ordinary. He just responded honestly. Meltdown over absolutely nothing.

Some of you need to come to terms that he is staying.

 

[hobbers]

Ratcliffe repeated the message that so many different managers have failed since Sir Alex Ferguson. Not all of them were bad, or unfit. So he drew the conclusion that the conditions for the manager to be working in, need to be optimalised so that the first team performs to their best ability.

He then goes on to create another terrible condition for his coach, CEO that starts only next month, no sporting director for the foreseeable future, manager/players in so much uncertainty. Amazing.

As predictable as clockwork.

Ineos have been useless owners at Nice. They will be useless part-owners here. Bullshit merchants.

How has he created a terrible condition, the conditions haven't changed.

Fatally undermining the current manager with a public courting of replacements, for one.....?

Also creating a situation where they are asking prospective managers to buy into a project where they have far less than the usual control, but the person who is supposed to be in control might not even be in the job for another full year.

Ashworth does not have the cv or body of work to justify putting everything on hold for 18 months to get him. A DoF who has hired no managers and only signed half a dozen players.

 

[stefan92]

How has he created a terrible condition, the conditions haven't changed. Getting the right people in place just takes longer than expected.

Which is also part of the point that plenty of us have tried to make, this isn't an ideal time to bring in someone new.

But that's more or less the point? At a time when the new season has to be planned and wheels have to be set in motion to enable a great transfer window, there is no structure in place, no one who can call the shots. No one except EtH (and Wilcox, but he clearly isn't intented to have the last word, which should be Ashworth, who isn't there).

Right now I actually agree that EtH should stay despite fully deserving being sacked. Just because INEOS majorly fecked up the schedule of their "structure appointments".

 

[captaincantona]

Clearly, you have not read the Athletic report?

We didnt have a club doctor till late July last year. So it isn't luck but rather the managers responsibility that Varane kept getting injured who was the same before he came, Ten Hag's fault that Coufal barged into Lisandro? Ten Hag's fault that Hojlund came with a back injury? Oh it must be Ten Hag's fault that Amad and Mainoo picked up injuries in pre season.

Shaw has said the manager asked can he play, he could have said no, Shaw is also a player that is always injured, its not new to Ten Hag.

I mean every manager gambles on players fitness, I remember Fergie gambled on Rooney in CL against Bayern.

I cant believe you are blaming injuries on Ten Hag, it just shows the agenda.

Distragught and liking a manager are massive, no player is distraught unless its Klopp, Pep.

can’t believe you’re rolling out the word “agenda” when someone states an opinion. Would you take it easy.

ETH is the man that has ultimate responsibility over who plays and who doesn’t, over who trains and who doesn’t, over his own relationship with the players and the staff - getting to know each one and developing trust to know when to take someone’s opinion and when to show caution.

notwithstanding any of that, ETH also has 100% responsibility for how he reacted to injuries. He could have chosen to give minutes to certain younger players, could have adapted his style, could have realised the longer term importance of some players who were integral to his preferred style of play and showed caution as was the case with shaw, Martinez, Casemiro at different points in the season. He didn’t.

so-the argument is not the simple one you are suggesting ie. That I’m saying Ten Hag controls whether or not the players are injured. It’s the conversation around how he dealt with the fitness of the squad and the fall out of that generally - which was, imo, not good.

hardly an extreme assessment and certainly not an agenda.

 

[Rista]

You are really poorly informed. Why speak with such authority. You have no clue of the work he did at Bayern, Utrecht and Ajax. He's done a quite poor job so far, but this is just false.
When was the last time a Dutch club went 6/6 in the group stage in the CL? When was the last time United even managed to do that? There's few clubs that manage this in Europe every now and then, the likes of the dominant Bayern, Barcelona and maybe Real Madrid.

He would not have been appointed based on what he did at Bayern and Utrecht and what he did with Ajax in the Eredivisie holds as much weight as what De Boer did. That one season in Europe was what made him attractive to United. That's the one thing people always fall back on when trying to prove he's a good manager.

This is absolute nonsense, buddy. The CL has absolutely ZERO to do with what made Ten Hag so attractive as a manager. His work at Utrech and Ajax was unbelievable and he also did a lot of good work with the Bayern II side, albeit you can argue it's Bayern. Couldn't care less what he did in the CL. SAF won 2 CL's yet I don't consider any manager in the world to hold a candle on him.

Plenty of other coaches were "unbelievable" with Ajax in the league. That's not the main reason why he was appointed.

 

[stefan92]

He would not have been appointed based on what he did at Bayern and Utrecht and what he did with Ajax in the Eredivisie holds as much weight as what De Boer did. That one season in Europe was what made him attractive to United. That's the one thing people always fall back on when trying to prove he's a good manager.

To be fair I often saw people mentioning that he worked with Guardiola, so using his Bayern time as an argument for him.

 

[pratyush_utd]

 

[JonIrenicus]

Ten Hag's CV is a CL semi run and titles with Ajax, but we've already seen how multi league titles with Ajax don't mean much in the prem.

Winning titles anywhere doesn't mean that much in the PL because there's a million different things that have to be taken to account when taking another team in another league. Frankly I don't even think Guardiola can go to any team int he world and make them world beaters unless he has the right structure and the right players to achieve his philosophy. I don't think we'd be that good even if Guardiola took us now. But CV is important. I had no faith in Ole as a manager because his CV was solely lacking, I have trust in Ten Hag because his isn't. And I would have no trust in Tuchel as a manager because his history as such speaks for itself. That's the difference.

"2 trophies" - both trophies being cups. One a fairly minor one, and the other the FA Cup. Truthfully, two trophies that are only really hyped when you're club isn't competing for what's really important. League title and Champions league. Your assessment of Tuchel was "the only noteworthy thing to his name is the CL he won with Chelsea... something ANY manager can do since it's a cup competition." You can't then turn around and say "2 trophies" for Ten Hag, as if we're not aware of what those trophies were. Is it Oochie Wally Wally or is it One Mic?

But this is the problem. You expect instant glory. No, this team isn't challenging for the league even if you get Guardiola or Klopp. Huge revamp needs to be done. Hell, the only manager I can think capable of winning the league with this bunch is SAF and I think even he might struggle. The reason why I mentioned the 2 trophies is because we haven't won a trophy in ages. And a team needs to win trophies consistently in order to form a belief and a winning mentality. Yes, they might not be the best of trophies but it's a start. The reason why Tuchel is unimpressive to me is because he failed miserably at Bayern, he achieved nothing at Chelsea (except the CL he took the team from midseason), he never reached the heights Klopp did at Dortmund with much more resources at his disposal and he did win 2 leagues with PSG. But hey... It's PSG, I can win a title with that team in that league. And most of all Tuchel has a knack of leaving every job he's had with fireworks & explosions. Is that the kind of manager we want? A Mourinho 2.0 with none of his resume when we took him?

Klopp and Guardiola tier of managers are seldom on the market. That's a non-factor. Ten Hag is miles away from being close to that standard/caliber. He's very much in the same tier of upcoming managers that were being discussed to replace him.

I would argue Ten Hag is at the position Klopp was when he left Dortmund.

Manager's have to deal with setbacks and hindrances, it is literally the point of a manager. If you just wanted a figurehead for when everything's running dandy, then even I could step-in and do OK. If winning the FA Cup after overseeing our worst prem campaign ever is enough to win your trust then fair enough, I'm not questioning that. I didn't even question you being for Ten Hag. I just find it amusing how you said "CL is a cup competition that can be won by any manager", then turned around and said "two trophieee. earned my trust".
[/QUOTE]
'Our worst prem campaign' is a ridiculous thing to say. Was Moyes' campaign not much worse given we went from champions to 7th, getting trashed by every top team in the process? I'd reckon our last season literally pales in comparison to what that nightmare was. Second, when we talk about a manager, we have to take everything into account. His history as a manager, his resume, what he did in the job prior to the season, what happened during the season, etc. Ten Hag overachieved in the first season. Nobody expected a trophy, 2 finals and a top 3 finish at the same time. This season was a shitshow but even a blind man will agree that there were dozen of mitigating circumstances on and off the field. Going by that logic should Liverpool have sacked Klopp when he failed to achieve top 4 in 2022-2023 season and was getting trounced by every team during the first half because of the onslaught of injuries?

 

[AjaxCunian]

He would not have been appointed based on what he did at Bayern and Utrecht and what he did with Ajax in the Eredivisie holds as much weight as what De Boer did. That one season in Europe was what made him attractive to United. That's the one thing people always fall back on when trying to prove he's a good manager.


Plenty of other coaches were "unbelievable" with Ajax in the league. That's not the main reason why he was appointed.

Again, an 'absolute truth' which is false. No one puts de Boer next to Erik ten Hag. Absolutely no one, And it wasn't just that one season, it started with 18/19 sure but there were enough impressive feats in Europe in the following seasons after Frenkie de Jong, Matthijs de Ligt left.

 

[Grizzly B]

He then goes on to create another terrible condition for his coach, CEO that starts only next month, no sporting director for the foreseeable future, manager/players in so much uncertainty. Amazing.

Would really like to know what they could have done differently / better here?

Trying to get the best people for these roles is going to come with lengthy gardening periods, it's not like they can jack their job in on a Friday and be at their desk in Old Trafford on Monday.

 

[TsuWave]

Interview was pretty ordinary. He just responded honestly. Meltdown over absolutely nothing.

Some of you need to come to terms that he is staying.

I’m yet to see this mythical meltdown people are repeatedly referring to.

Conversation in this thread is pretty tame.

 

[stefan92]

Would really like to know what they could have done differently / better here?

Trying to get the best people for these roles is going to come with lengthy gardening periods, it's not like they can jack their job in on a Friday and be at their desk in Old Trafford on Monday.

True... but I bet there are other quality people available that could sort out their stuff much faster than the Ashworth saga. Especially considering that I really have to question what exactly makes Ashworth "the best" option ahead of a bunch of other people who are doing good jobs in similar positions? To just throw a random name in here: Markus Krösche. He saw Frankfurt winning the Europa League, before that he was at Leipzig and as his first DoF job in Paderborn. He signed for them in the third division and he demanded a bonus payment clause in case Paderborn would get promoted to the first league under his leadership. He got that clause, and he got that bonus.

Not saying United/INEOS should go for him, but I think that's a CV easily on par with Ashworth in regard to club success and I'm sure there are other like him who all work for clubs which are easier to deal with than Newcastle.

 

[Rex Banner]

Don't think Ineos will be too pleased. As soon as we have a bad run of form and there's a decent replacement out there he's gone.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Would really like to know what they could have done differently / better here?

Trying to get the best people for these roles is going to come with lengthy gardening periods, it's not like they can jack their job in on a Friday and be at their desk in Old Trafford on Monday.

The Ashworth situation is a complete mess in terms of how they went about it, and the uncertainty on when he can actually start. Is it worth getting Dan Ashworth if you need to wait 1,5 years for him for example? Not sure.
The whole mess about the manager this summer, is just amateur level. Not being able to make up their mind whether they want to sack or commit to their current manager. It seems no different than the rubbish under the Glazers and Woodward.

 

[tjb]

Some of the Interview

Not as bad as I thought. From the comments in the thread, I would have been annoyed at the idea of him being smug given the season we had. But here, he's simply just answering quick fire questions.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

Don't think Ineos will be too pleased. He's a goner as soon as there's a decent replacement out there.

I think it's all a bit overstated. It's translated and probably not as blunt as reported.

He's had a bump in popularity with fans after the FA Cup Final, because fans are incredibly stupid, but there isn't much credit in the bank. If he is being deliberately antagonistic, it won't help his contract negotiations.

Slagging off Gareth Southgate and being called touted as a better manager than Ronald Koeman is all very good, but he has to start managing league games again in a few weeks. Not something he's shown any capability of so far in England.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Yeah, nothing wrong with that.

 

[dejans]

Not as bad as I thought. From the comments in the thread, I would have been annoyed at the idea of him being smug given the season we had. But here, he's simply just answering quick fire questions.

Completely agree.
Calm and honest answers, it seems.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I’m yet to see this mythical meltdown people are repeatedly referring to.

Conversation in this thread is pretty tame.

Been saying the exact same thing. Some people don't want discussion, just affirmation.

 

[Oranges038]

The look of a man that knows he got it right.

He saw Kobbie play and almost immediately put him on the fast track to the first team, he would have been in from the start of last season were it not for his injury.