Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I don't think the issue comes from this side, but more from the point of view of players. The current situation means that a player who is approached by United will not know:
  • Who is going to be the manager/my boss?
  • Who will decide above the manager and set the general direction? (Probably Ashworth, but not officially in office yet)
  • What will the style of play look like, on which direction did the club decide?
  • What are the expectations for the coming seasons, what is the club aiming for?
  • Which other players are in favour, which are likely to leave? (This will also depend a bit on the manager, even if his voice is limited)
All this can be a factor for a player to step back from a United offer at the moment. It's reasonable to assume that EtH is worried about that in case he stays, as all this are reasonable assumptions about transfer discussions with players.

Fair points.

I guess Ashworth (or whoever is doing this on his behalf un the meantime)'s job is going to be to sell a vision that isn't reliant on football managers in the traditional sense of the word.

Style of play, direction expectations for the season, transfer incomings and outgoings are all areas that should be set by the new hierarchy, with a head coach simply employed to execute within those parameters.

The only question therefore, is: "who is going to be my boss?". I guess they can share that information with a player they are close to striking a deal with, confidentially, if it is proving to be a dealbreaker. Even if they are still in the midst of deciding between two options, that's a conversation they can have in private with a player and his agent.
 
The media are the cause for the hype and drama

No. The club are the cause.

They're the ones who spoke to other managers, even before the end of season and right before a cup final, and either didnt predict or didnt care that those managers and their agents would spill the beans.

They're the ones who briefed about doing a season end review that would decide ETH's fate without setting a deadline, and let the whole thing run on and on.

They've failed miserably on press handling and optics. Created a vacuum which then got filled with noise, rumours and predictions.
 
Erm no I wasn't, when I was talking about open heart surgery - I wasn't just talking about players in or out.

IMO Ralph wasn't talking about just that. I did say we need to buy 4/5 players - but that comment was never just about the squad it was about the culture and the mentally as well.

Alright fair enough mate. Whever anyone uses that term these days it's still associated with Ralf saying the squad need huge turnover 2 years ago. My only point was it's happened not that we still don't need more.
 
Spare a thought for all those YouTube Man United-related "content" providers who are genuinely scratching the bottom of the barrell for stuff to say at this point :lol:
 
Spare a thought for all those YouTube Man United-related "content" providers who are genuinely scratching the bottom of the barrell for stuff to say at this point :lol:

Tbh I have seen some like United View that don't claim to have sources, they actually say, we just report the journalist stories and discuss it.

Its the likes of United stand that use it for views, click bait, in reality they have as much as idea as we do.
 
If we keep Ten Hag then we'll have to pray that McKenna has a ridiculous season with Ipswich so Ineos lose interest in Southgate.

If INEOS genuinely wants Southgate I already have lost hope for them really changing the fortunes of the club. That man has done essentially nothing to deserve that level of reverence besides befriend Brailsford
 
I'd laugh if ETH walked and went elsewhere because he's annoyed at the boards handling of this. Then he goes on to be successful elsewhere and we get Southgate and struggle for 6th.

So you think Southgate would usher in a season of progress?
 
Fair points.

I guess Ashworth (or whoever is doing this on his behalf un the meantime)'s job is going to be to sell a vision that isn't reliant on football managers in the traditional sense of the word.

Style of play, direction expectations for the season, transfer incomings and outgoings are all areas that should be set by the new hierarchy, with a head coach simply employed to execute within those parameters.

The only question therefore, is: "who is going to be my boss?". I guess they can share that information with a player they are close to striking a deal with, confidentially, if it is proving to be a dealbreaker. Even if they are still in the midst of deciding between two options, that's a conversation they can have in private with a player and his agent.
But right now it can't be Ashworth, who is still under contract at Newcastle. If he talks to players or agents about this to get them to sign for United, Newcastle will sue him and Manchester into oblivion for breach of contract and embezzlement. So it has to be somebody else (Wilcox?), and then the player can't be sure that whatever presumably Wilcox tells him isn't overruled soon by Ashworth. So all these points are still open.

It's not only the manager position that's a problem. The CEO isn't in office yet, the DOF isn't in office yet. Even if we know who they will be, they aren't allowed currently to be involved. That's a lot of uncertainty at the moment.
 
No. The club are the cause.

They're the ones who spoke to other managers, even before the end of season and right before a cup final, and either didnt predict or didnt care that those managers and their agents would spill the beans.

They're the ones who briefed about doing a season end review that would decide ETH's fate without setting a deadline, and let the whole thing run on and on.

They've failed miserably on press handling and optics. Created a vacuum which then got filled with noise, rumours and predictions.

This isn't a Moyes sacking the entire backroom staff that helped SAF succeed, type of thing. It's a few weeks after the season has ended.

I get that it's annoying not knowing what the future holds, but we'll get there soon.
 
I'd laugh if ETH walked and went elsewhere because he's annoyed at the boards handling of this. Then he goes on to be successful elsewhere and we get Southgate and struggle for 6th.

He has no leverage right now - the managerial merry go-round is done for all the top clubs. Any other club would be a downgrade and more importantly, pay a lot less. If Bayern or Barca were actually interested in him then it'd be a different story.
 
No sympathy for him. The way EtH treated DDG (that has given to the CLub more than EtH ever be) left a sour taste also.

It's all just business. He'll get massive compensation if the Club decide to let him go.
Didn’t say I had sympathy for ETH. Just said SJR and crew have not a speck of courage. Not exactly what I would prefer as the managing partner in the club. Make a statement that 8th isn’t good enough and move forward.
 
The problem is that the case for moving on from ETH is strong, but it's not overwhelming. The case for the top alternatives -- Tuchel, Poch and Frank is not that strong, and the case for Southgate is incredibly weak.

There is no good answer here. What's left is the best of bad options, which is to keep ETH. But here's the dilemma -- ETH will demand a contract extension going into his final year of the contract and if it's not given we can expect another horrific season of performances by players who are playing for a manager at the end of his plan.

Not exactly genius management by INEOS.
 
It's not a problem unless you want a statement manager like Pep or Klopp or Tuchel or Ancelotti etc. Then they expect to be a bit more in charge. It's also not a problem if you are already a well run club with everything ticking over and a new coach is just another cog in the machine.

Ehm, its the conditions that Pep, Klopp and Ancelotti are used to. Tuchel doesnt like others interfearing
 
You don't know for sure. It's maybe pure media speculation (stories about Utd gets clicks), some "ITK" on Twitter, and possibly hype stories by the manager's agents. The only ever official account by Sir Jim is that we are working to place a proper structure first, then it would be possible to properly evaluate ETH as a manager

On their part INEOS has also not given out the dreaded "vote of confidence" publicly lest they indeed have plans to replace him.
We all seemed to think that INEOS was “putting in a proper structure”, but in retrospect, is that true?

Given that they went out and brought in experienced operators who were under contract, what was the contingency plan if their employers refused to let them leave without fulfilling their leave clause?

This is a critical transfer window. Obviously, if we are in decision paralysis at this critical juncture, they’ve already kinda fecked up.
 
The problem is that the case for moving on from ETH is strong, but it's not overwhelming. The case for the top alternatives -- Tuchel, Poch and Frank is not that strong, and the case for Southgate is incredibly weak.

There is no good answer here. What's left is the best of bad options, which is to keep ETH. But here's the dilemma -- ETH will demand a contract extension going into his final year of the contract and if it's not given we can expect another horrific season of performances by players who are playing for a manager at the end of his plan.

Not exactly genius management by INEOS.

Basically this. We’d have to back ETH if we keep him to strengthen his position but there’s no argument in favour of doing that.

So that leaves us between a rock and a hard place. I actually think the right decision is to move him on because he doesn’t deserve a new contract and it would set us up for failure to send him into the new season with only a year left on his current deal.
 
I'd laugh if ETH walked and went elsewhere because he's annoyed at the boards handling of this. Then he goes on to be successful elsewhere and we get Southgate and struggle for 6th.

Guy has the most inexplicable level of juice I’ve ever seen. Fantasies of him walking out and being successful elsewhere when the reality is he finished 8th with United. A struggle 6th with Southgate would be an improvement.
  • lowest league position since 1989-90.
  • lost nine games at Old Trafford this term - their joint-most at home in a season.
  • conceded a club-record 58 goals in a Premier League season.
  • ended a league campaign with a negative goal difference for the first time since 1989-90
 
Guy has the most inexplicable level of juice I’ve ever seen. Fantasies of him walking out and being successful elsewhere when the reality is he finished 8th with United. A struggle 6th with Southgate would be an improvement.
  • lowest league position since 1989-90.
  • lost nine games at Old Trafford this term - their joint-most at home in a season.
  • conceded a club-record 58 goals in a Premier League season.
  • ended a league campaign with a negative goal difference for the first time since 1989-90
Save it mate, they don't want to hear it.
 
We could afford them to take time if there wasn't so many significant issues in the first XI, unfortunately there is so we need to get this sorted in order to crack on with transfer priorities

I agree but that's why it's so important to make the 'right' choice now instead of just commiting to someone without considering all the intricacies that you will need to make it work. I'd imagine the board are thinking about 10 steps down the line rather than 'okay let's get xyx manager in/stick with ETH and focus on the 4-6 transfers we need this summer'. They're probably thinking 1) what about January? 2) what about if we have a poor start to the season? 3) what managerial options will there be available? 4) what about transfer targets in 24-25? 5) what's the plan to stick with ETH, do we offer a new contract and plan this for the next 3-4 years? etc etc.

You don't make a 'bad' and quick choice now, only to commit to another couple hundred million in transfers for the next year or so and then reset if it doesn't go well.
 
Makes me wonder with all this dithering if it was INEOS longing out the club sale process :lol:

I think that whole process is pretty much what we can expect from the club moving forward.

Ineos did communicate to the fans, but only rarely, and it seems like they had a price in mind and didn’t move from that too much. They also were not in any seeming rush to get anything done, focusing on getting it right, under their terms, or as close as, and feck everything else.

TBH as frustrating as that is for us fans when we all know the major work that needs doing, it’s probably the best approach for us at the moment. We don’t have an endless pot of cash, and rashness has been one of our main issues for the last 10 years.
 
Guy has the most inexplicable level of juice I’ve ever seen. Fantasies of him walking out and being successful elsewhere when the reality is he finished 8th with United. A struggle 6th with Southgate would be an improvement.
  • lowest league position since 1989-90.
  • lost nine games at Old Trafford this term - their joint-most at home in a season.
  • conceded a club-record 58 goals in a Premier League season.
  • ended a league campaign with a negative goal difference for the first time since 1989-90
But he reached CL semis half a decade ago.
 
My new theory is the media got ahead of themselves because they thought we'd get destroyed in the cup final and jumped on that rumour.

What's funny is that people assumed Ten Hag would be sacked because the media reported that he would.

These same journalists who reported this pre cup final are now demonstrating they've no idea what's going and are now basically contradicting themselves on a daily basis. The club have leaked nothing, have said nothing and we still have a manager.

There's every chance that the club have decided Ten Hag is staying, at least in the short to medium term and the review is more focusing what his day to day role will look like in the wider structure going forward for the next few months.
Yup. We also had someone in this thread consistently pulling ITK facts out of their arse, fooling a bunch of people into believing that they knew what was going on, only for them to finally get called out by numerous posters and subsequently running away from the forum since last Wednesday.
 
Alright fair enough mate. Whever anyone uses that term these days it's still associated with Ralf saying the squad need huge turnover 2 years ago. My only point was it's happened not that we still don't need more.

I know, thats how bad it was - I still look at this team and see players that are just not good enough or even worse, players that just don't get stuck in or graft.
 
Spare a thought for all those YouTube Man United-related "content" providers who are genuinely scratching the bottom of the barrell for stuff to say at this point :lol:

This is the case every year during transfer season. The web is flooded with so many Twitter and YouTube accounts that they have to manufacture sensationalism to avoid losing visitors.
 
I know I keep on parroting this but Southgate hinted that he is leaving after the Euros, and the links between him and ineos are strong. So I think he will be the next manager and will have another season like we had with Moyes.
 
It's a given that if the end result this summer is that ETH stays, whatever they brief about it, Southgate will be taking over sometime next season, as soon as Ineos get the opportunity or excuse to.
 
It's a given that if the end result this summer is that ETH stays, whatever they brief about it, Southgate will be taking over sometime next season, as soon as Ineos get the opportunity or excuse to.
Why Southgate? Serious question. Ornstein is among those who have played him down as a considered candidate.
 
Guy has the most inexplicable level of juice I’ve ever seen. Fantasies of him walking out and being successful elsewhere when the reality is he finished 8th with United. A struggle 6th with Southgate would be an improvement.
  • lowest league position since 1989-90.
  • lost nine games at Old Trafford this term - their joint-most at home in a season.
  • conceded a club-record 58 goals in a Premier League season.
  • ended a league campaign with a negative goal difference for the first time since 1989-90
You forgot a couple points.

  • suffered the most injuries
  • beat Pool and Cheaty to win FA cup in style
  • has the players and fans behind him
 
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