Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I don’t know why we’re forever being fed Ashworth wants Southgate as I’m sure Southgate was under 21’s manager when Ashworth was FA Technical Director or finished up not long after Southgate became England manager ?

There’s no way Berrada, Blanc and Brailsford would allow such an underwhelming choice and there’s also the fact Ashworth may not even be at United before the end of the year. It’s simply lazy yet simple journalism linking Southgate to us because of Ashworth who doesn’t even work for us yet.
 
Knocking on the formation is silly, the roles differed quite a bit over time as they do with all formations. There was a brief stint with Falcao, Van Persie and Rooney in the side when the front two was actually a 3-5-2 but otherwise the attacking shape is pretty modern.

Second season he moved to a straight 4-2-3-1. But look back at the lineups he was fielding - Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Januzaj, an ageing Rooney (my captain shall always play), Darmian, Depay. 5th was fairly good with that.
That's some revisionism.
 
In SAF first season we finished 11th, his second season we finished just above relegation. Third season we finished 6th.
4th season we won the league And then went onto dominate the league for many years to come Winning countless trophies along the way.

ETH deserves another season. Two trophies won in two years after 6 years of sod all. Stick with Erik.
Do you honestly think you're the first person in this entire thread to make the SAF comparisons?
 
That's some revisionism.

How? Let's agree on the idea that we were boring, how is it not fairly good to finish 5th with the same amount of points than 4th while having a season filled with key injuries and a fairly weak squad in the first place?
 
How? Let's agree on the idea that we were boring, how is it not fairly good to finish 5th with the same amount of points than 4th while having a season filled with key injuries and a fairly weak squad in the first place?
The objective is always champions league at a MINIMUM, I don't understand how it's not OK to reduce standards for ETH (which I agree, he should be sacked) but now we should reduce them for LVG retrospectively? That was a big summer at the time with all these players signed, and we massively underperformed. Not just in the position but performances too.
 
Exactly. Those are two completely different setups. You tried to draw conclusions about the setup we used this season based on a totally different setup that didn't by design engage midfielders in the final third and leave an empty midfield. The difference is that those are two completely different setups.

Again not really sure what you're on about mate. My point has been around the midfield gap which appears both at United and the 2019 Ajax team, which stems from similar tactics of one of the CMs dropping deep and the other two staying high up, which creates that gap. I don't even think I've made reference to the midfield in an attacking sense in this specific convo (although in previous ones I have said that the attack of united resembles more the later Ten Hag Ajax rather than the 2019 one). I assume as you're focusing on the attack that you agree with my overall point which still stands. You can see similar tactics that Ten Hag has applied in his previous Ajax squads at United.
 
The objective is always champions league at a MINIMUM, I don't understand how it's not OK to reduce standards for ETH (which I agree, he should be sacked) but now we should reduce them for LVG retrospectively? That was a big summer at the time with all these players signed, and we massively underperformed. Not just in the position but performances too.

You jumped to a conclusion that wasn't made. One can say that LVG results were fairly good within the context of that season while also considering that in the grand scheme of things he deserved to be sacked, largely due to the quality of a number of performances.
 
Based on the idea that Wilcox want's possession football and perhaps Berrada's involvement with City you can only really look to the likes of Xavi and De Zerbi.

If Erik's going, I think the next appointment will be a choice fans aren't familiar with. Not an underwhelming candidate but one the papers aren't doing the rounds on.

The lack of transparency with what's happened with De Zerbi and Bloom to close the season is also odd, right at the end of the season couldn't have been stranger timing. The decision for Brighton to go after Mckenna felt like impulse as opposed to a profound process.
 
Again not really sure what you're on about mate. My point has been around the midfield gap which appears both at United and the 2019 Ajax team, which stems from similar tactics of one of the CMs dropping deep and the other two staying high up, which creates that gap. I don't even think I've made reference to the midfield in an attacking sense in this specific convo (although in previous ones I have said that the attack of united resembles more the later Ten Hag Ajax rather than the 2019 one). I assume as you're focusing on the attack that you agree with my overall point which still stands. You can see similar tactics that Ten Hag has applied in his previous Ajax squads at United.

That's the issue you are making a parallel between midfields that have totally different setups and dynamics. It's extremely important to keep in mind how things move in transition if you are talking about managing gaps, when neither of your midfielders are engaged in the final third, the apparent gap is an illusion because your midfields are by design in a position to squeeze the field while being between their goal and the ball, for us this season it's the opposite. In one case you are by design outnumbered for most of the transition while in the other situation you are never outnumbered you just gave space in the middle third but because you didn't commit players you can easily manage it. The concepts are totally different.
 
That's the issue you are making a parallel between midfields that have totally different setups and dynamics. It's extremely important to keep in mind how things move in transition if you are talking about managing gaps, when neither of your midfielders are engaged in the final third, the apparent gap is an illusion because your midfields are by design in a position to squeeze the field while being between their goal and the ball, for us this season it's the opposite. In one case you are by design outnumbered for most of the transition while in the other situation you are never outnumbered you just gave space in the middle third but because you didn't commit players you can easily manage it. The concepts are totally different.

Okay now I think im getting your point.a bit. The gap I'm referring to is in the build up this season. The design of that being your deeper midfielder and CBs can draw the press allowing for passes into the high 8s or attackers who will have more space to receive the ball as well as being able to match up in terms of numbers. Which we saw a lot this season with Bruno and when Kobbie was playing as an 8 both being ahead of the play with Casmeiro sitting much deeper(drawing complaints that there is a gap that we struggle to progress through). You'd see Dalot popping in that gap from time to time and Mainoo or mctominay dropping in that gap from time to time. When Martinez is in the team you also see him popping into that gap. When I say that gap I'm referring to the vacant space around the deep midfielder and between him and the 8s. All of that is similar to what Ten Hags Ajax would do. Some of this is standard amongst some managers e.g. the fullback popping into midfield, whilst the size of that gap is pretty unique to Ten Hag as seen at Ajax. Now saying that the tactic is similar to Ajax doesnt mean its being performed to the level of Ajax, which it clearly isn't due to in my opinion Casemiro and the none Martinez CBs not being suited to it.

Where I think you are referring to, and correct me if I'm wrong is the gap when we are being transitioned? Which I believe you are saying is due to the two 8s trying to outnumber the opposition in the final third more aggresively than Van De Beek and Schone did at Ajax. Which I'd agree partially with as the 8s for Ajax did get into the final third but not as aggressively as someone like Bruno, however Bruno has also this season been more restrained in getting into those attacking positions as seen by his stats.

However the overarching point is a lot of the way we play, or attempt to play, you can see in previous Ten Hag teams.
 
Good luck trying to sell Southgate to United fans. If it was a choice between the two 90% of fans would stick with EtH and i honestly don't think that would change if he won the Euros.

Ten Hag?

I would honestly take David Moyes back ahead of Southgate.
 
I honestly don’t think anything will happen until Berrarda & Ashworth are through the door. Berrada at least! As we don’t know how long Ashworth is gonna take.

This place would be up in arms if we appointed anyone without waiting for the “football people to make rhe decisions” yet here we are and we have people complaining we’re taking too long. (Despite the vast majority of people at the club right now, besides Wilcox, are ultimately, business people, that’s SJR & Brailsford included, not including Blanc in this)
 
Okay now I think im getting your point.a bit. The gap I'm referring to is in the build up this season. The design of that being your deeper midfielder and CBs can draw the press allowing for passes into the high 8s or attackers who will have more space to receive the ball as well as being able to match up in terms of numbers. Which we saw a lot this season with Bruno and when Kobbie was playing as an 8 both being ahead of the play with Casmeiro sitting much deeper(drawing complaints that there is a gap that we struggle to progress through). You'd see Dalot popping in that gap from time to time and Mainoo or mctominay dropping in that gap from time to time. When Martinez is in the team you also see him popping into that gap. When I say that gap I'm referring to the vacant space around the deep midfielder and between him and the 8s. All of that is similar to what Ten Hags Ajax would do. Some of this is standard amongst some managers e.g. the fullback popping into midfield, whilst the size of that gap is pretty unique to Ten Hag as seen at Ajax. Now saying that the tactic is similar to Ajax doesnt mean its being performed to the level of Ajax, which it clearly isn't due to in my opinion Casemiro and the none Martinez CBs not being suited to it.

Where I think you are referring to, and correct me if I'm wrong is the gap when we are being transitioned? Which I believe you are saying is due to the two 8s trying to outnumber the opposition in the final third more aggresively than Van De Beek and Schone did at Ajax. Which I'd agree partially with as the 8s for Ajax did get into the final third but not as aggressively as someone like Bruno, however Bruno has also this season been more restrained in getting into those attacking positions as seen by his stats.

However the overarching point is a lot of the way we play, or attempt to play, you can see in previous Ten Hag teams.

I see but that's not an issue for us and it also goes back to my initial post. ETH has no intention to play like Ajax, he had no intention to have a possession based approach. He literally described the opposite, he wanted us to have a direct approach built around speed and the ability to surprise the opposition in transition. It's not the same tactic, not the same philosophy and it's a bit strange to try and force ideas that the manager denied.
 
Goldbridge clearer in this chat. He’s latest video title looks like it’s referring to the guy and his Grandad taking to McLaren’s Dad about a pay out. :D
 
Look again, Arsenal fans were rabidly calling for him to be sacked after a couple of weak seasons. He had Kronkes son on his side and the rest is history. Maybe there is a lesson there? :confused:
Maybe they were. But Arteta, when they decided to stick with him, got massive backing in the market and he improved them immensely afterwards. Trouble is, we’ve already given that backing to EtH to the tune of £400m and we’ve gone backwards and ended with a negative goal difference. How much more £’s are we going to have to back him with to compete with Arsenal?
 
That's some revisionism.

The football was boring as feck and his personality wasn't great either. It was clear the players have given up on him. But results wise, I can make better arguments for 5th with LvG squad than Ten Hag with whatever our league / CL showing was this season.
 
Look again, Arsenal fans were rabidly calling for him to be sacked after a couple of weak seasons. He had Kronkes son on his side and the rest is history. Maybe there is a lesson there? :confused:
Whats the lesson? Every club should blindly give managers a free pass for several because it's worked out well for Arsenal?
 
I see but that's not an issue for us and it also goes back to my initial post. ETH has no intention to play like Ajax, he had no intention to have a possession based approach. He literally described the opposite, he wanted us to have a direct approach built around speed and the ability to surprise the opposition in transition. It's not the same tactic, not the same philosophy and it's a bit strange to try and force ideas that the manager denied.

All of which his Ajax team possessed, most notably when playing teams as big or bigger than them they were a great transitional side (arguably the reason that 2019 team got as far as it did in the champions league), who were also great at possession play when they could dominate a team which was more natural to them. Yes the manager has said what he has said, however he's also stated that he wants more possesion and the team to play with a higher line, he has also talked about the CM being deeper and having two high 8s. To disregard the fact that there are clear similarities in the build up play as well as the same deficiencies which have resulted in the exact same criticisms that he received at Ajax for me would be strange. He's stated on many occasions that he wants the team to have more possession as well as being a great transitional side (again of which his 2019 Ajax team was). Now would united be a replica of that Ajax team, no, just like the current city isn't a replica of the Barca team yet has Pep's dna in them, the same with Klopps pool and dortmund. This united team has got Ten Hag's dna in them, the good and the bad, and with the current squad of players more of the later.
 
The football was boring as feck and his personality wasn't great either. It was clear the players have given up on him. But results wise, I can make better arguments for 5th with LvG squad than Ten Hag with whatever our league / CL showing was this season.
Nonsense, LVG's team was miles better than this team.
 
I honestly don’t think anything will happen until Berrarda & Ashworth are through the door. Berrada at least! As we don’t know how long Ashworth is gonna take.

Berrada is only starting in mid-July and we're obviously not going to be replacing the manager so late.

So why aren't we briefing the media that ETH is staying?
 
I'd personally keep Ten Hag and held that view before the cup final, but I think he's going. In fact, I'm fairly certain of it.

I also think there's some fairly significant factors not being talked about publicly, though I suspect the press know about them and I'm surprised it hasn't come out yet(maybe some of it has and I've missed it. It could easily be dismissed as normal press bollox). It wouldn't benefit those involved, or the club, for me to mention them here, so I won't. Suffice to say that those who want ETH gone will likely get their way soon and we'll all be treated to plenty of dirty laundry... in fact, thinking about it now I can't help wonder if the delay has partly been to allow for the increasing focus of the euros to take away some of the heat. Just a thought though.

On Southgate links, he's so far down the list of who I'd want as United manager, it feels like it actually might work :lol:

On the aforementioned octogenarian, he's a well known sharer. I could have kept the daily star back pages busy for a week after our last conversation. To be tactful, I'd say his accuracy levels aren't flawless and he certainly has some strong opinions.
 
Nonsense, LVG's team was miles better than this team.

Just picked the players with the most mins in the league and put them in a 4-2-3-1 (the dominant formation that season). They're definitely not miles better. Are they a little better? Probably up for debate.

-------------------------------- DDG ---------------------------------
--- Darmian -- Smalling -- Blind -- Rojo / Young ---
------------- Carrick -- Schneiderlin -------------------------
-------- Mata ----------- Herrera ----------- Martial -------
-------------------------- Rooney -----------------------------------

Honorary mentions: JLingz, Herrera, Schweinsteiger, Fellaini, Young

https://fbref.com/en/squads/19538871/2015-2016/Manchester-United-Stats

cue the Jose Mourinho 'eritage rant

 
Nonsense, LVG's team was miles better than this team.

No chance, if by what you mean is "this team" when fully fit. The team we actually saw this season, due to injuries, was shit and if you mean that then LVG's would scrape their boots on our faces. Van Gaal's team did a nice job of putting most of us to sleep, but they were methodical in their dire approach to the game in case that's any consolation.
 
Can someone pop round to Ashworth's garden and have a word with him. Southgate managing Manchester United is almost as bad as Bozo being Prime Minister.

I think Ashworth has been in the garden too much and got sunstroke.
 
Maybe they were. But Arteta, when they decided to stick with him, got massive backing in the market and he improved them immensely afterwards. Trouble is, we’ve already given that backing to EtH to the tune of £400m and we’ve gone backwards and ended with a negative goal difference. How much more £’s are we going to have to back him with to compete with Arsenal?
Forget the money spent. It’s misleading. Compare the players they have bought to our motley crew.
Hopefully INEOS hold true to their stated desire to ‘never be the dumb money’ and we get smarter in the market.
 
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