Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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Ole and LVG weep over the revelation that a win or 2 against the big boys is enough to stay on the job nowadaysVery true, he beat all of those teams once. Just once though. But that's enough for some hope.
Whilst they should go at some stage, the idea that we can only finish 8th with the likes of them is rubbish. How many times have that group finished top 4 if not higher?
Lack of a LB, having to play Evans, inconsistency in lineups are all very valid contributors to our failings but when the excuse extends to well he had to play players who have frequently got top 4 previously it wears thin. His failure to adjust is more relevant there.
No manager gets 100% what he wants. Sometimes the club disagrees with what they want, sometimes the manager wants players that don't want to come (or don't want to leave), sometimes the manager wants players that are just too expensive. Ferguson missed out on plenty of players, Guardiola missed out on plenty, Klopp missed out on plenty, etc. It's the managers job to do the best they possibly can with what they have.
We can't spend unlimited money, so the reason ETH had to make do with the likes of Weghorst, Sabitzer, Amrabat, etc on loan is because he wanted other players that ended up taking all the transfer funds. He seemed to be incredibly fixated on FDJ, a player that didn't want to come (he's also said that he wanted both an FDJ and a Casemiro, not an either/or). Reports are he wanted Kane, a player that Spurs would never have sold to us. A manager having unrealistic expectations doesn't mean he wasn't backed.
The managers have been working under a poor structure. There's certainly no denying that. However that doesn't mean the managers shouldn't be held responsible for the things that they can control. That structure is also being ripped up and replaced, so I'm not sure why you constantly repeat that if we sack ETH we'll be in the same position again in two years. We definitely might be, but only if we get a manager that isn't good enough. If we get the right manager we won't be.
If you agree that the four previous managers deserved to be sacked, then there is no relevance to bringing them up and saying that sacking them didn't work so therefore we shouldn't sack the current one. What happened with those four is completely irrelevant. We've replaced plenty of players as well, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't replace current players if they aren't good enough either. It's exactly the same.
They're doing mock trials aren't they like they do in Suits
Honestly, I'm getting tired of this bad faith argument that some people keep repeating.
Pretty much nobody is saying that injuries and the poor structure have no relevance at all. They absolutely are good excuses for not being as good as what we wanted to be. However, that doesn't mean an entire season is written off where nothing that happens in it should be held against the manager at all. The injuries do not excuse just how bad we were, especially when we were just as bad in the matches where we had barely any injuries. We also finished the season fairly strongly at a time where our injuries were the worst they had been all season, which very strongly indicates that the main issue was not the injuries.
The structure didn't do their job properly. That includes hiring the wrong managers. Unless you think they got their fifth choice right after getting all four of their previous ones wrong?
Have we been fighting for top honours for the last 7/8 years?
Do the stats bear out that the last half year at Ajax was indeed poor? Because the season stats are great for Ten Hag’s last year at Ajax.
And what is all this based on? Just on what previously happened. "We've sacked managers and it didn't work out long term so we need to stop sacking managers, that's the solution". Literally gambler's fallacy. Do people never watch what other teams do? If the manager is not working out, you sack him and try with someone else. 99/100 times it's the right decision.
I've come to believe this is the best plan long term. Stings in the short term though as it almost ensures a bad season.
Newcastle home kit. I claim my $5.
I am for kinnear
No one has an answer or a viable excuse for that other than wishy-washy stuff around needing to change the system. Half of the forum predicted that Cas, Bruno and Mount would not work and would leave vast amounts of space last Summer, the system was fundamentally flawed, and we saw this with multiple combinations of players attempting it.
Do we trust he won't go back to it next season?
Ole, McKenna, Carrick got us into second and third with Lindelöf, Maguire, Fred, Mctominay, AWB, Martial, Rashford as starting players.
They are just not that bad.
Now Fred is gone. Martial has been struggling with injuries for a long time.
Only really Rashford is considered a starting player anymore. The other 4 remaining are decent and loyal back up players. Feels a bit of a stretch to label this group of players as the big issue?
A very fair question. You do want to look at the entirety or the season and not just the first half. Back in February we had not any trophies this season. But more than that there is a lot to go through in terms of taking in feedback from the players, who now can feel free to talk candidly about anything management wishes to discuss with them without the pressure of getting ready for the next game.
We were told he persisted with the system for long term benefits. Somehow the players who are considered mostly not good enough have benefited from playing that way. If he doesn't go back to it then what does that tell us? He threw our entire season for nothing?
The man also said he wanted De Jong and Casemiro and they would have played together, so I guess one of them would have been playing as the secondary 10 that Mount, McT and occasionally Mainoo were this season, barely seeing the ball.
Or he would have played De Jong in the deep midfield role, who is a pretty poor defensive player, sure it would have gone superbly.
I don't trust him not to try to go back to it or a similarly ill advised variation of it, if I'm being honest. His stubborn insistence on persevering with something that clearly wasn't working all season is why I dont think he should continue in this job.
This is rhe problem with the idea he deserves another season under a new structure. Woukd have thought under the new structure he might not be able to specifically pick mount but would still have wanted someone of his profile which was just a flawed plan that would never work alongside Bruno.
The only time he has managed to make us look a vaguely competent team is when he has jettisoned his plans to make us a more progressive team to go back to something resembling oles team. Given he looks completely incapable of making us play like other top teams what benefit is there in keeping him in place?
The only time he has managed to make us look a vaguely competent team is when he has jettisoned his plans to make us a more progressive team to go back to something resembling oles team. Given he looks completely incapable of making us play like other top teams what benefit is there in keeping him in place?
So basically write off next season because the structure is not yet fully formed?
surely better to get the manager you want in day one of the new structure and make them part of the development process not adjunct to it
It's not pure black and white, it just looks like it is
Nothing can be done before the window opens, and only one deal at a time. Oh and we also need a week to “prepare a bid” in between each contact with the selling club. These things take time!
You and Prince Harry account for at least two people that watched the show, now I just need to find the other two.
why do you believe everything you read? how the feck would Ben Jacob's know anything
Did you watch the last half year/last couple of months at Ajax?
From a Dutch newspaper after his last home game at Ajax (translated with google):
Finally the offensive carousel turned smoothly again, boosted by a goal from crowd favorite Nicolás Tagliafico in the eighteenth minute. Ajax played against Heerenveen with the flair of a champion and that was necessary even after weeks of doom and gloom.
There were extenuating circumstances, such as a long list of injuries and the mental blow that Benfica dealt in the eighth finals of the Champions League. But still; For the strong and expensive selection that Ten Hag has at its disposal, it was sometimes embarrassing what the Amsterdam team showed.
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I read your post, I didn’t like it so I replied.
You’re the one who keeps banging on about the transfer window being for registration only, and there are plenty of whiners who are wetting their pants about ‘the lack of activity’.
But whatever, I’ll say no more and move on. I suggest you do the same.
Now that McKenna is off the candidates list, I'm not convinced any of the mooted names are any better - or would do any better - than Ten Hag. He did develop Garnacho and Mainoo, and to a lesser extent Højlund, and tried with Forson and Kambwala. There are almost an equal number of items in both the For and Against columns.
| FOR | AGAINST |
| fully integrated Mainoo as a starter | persisted with a misfiring Antony |
| relied heavily on Garnacho | sidelined Amad |
| injury crisis all season long, 54 different back 4 pairings | persisted with Casemiro as lone midfielder |
| nullified Man City's attack | usually tactically inept with gaping hole in midfield |
| handled Ronaldo and Sancho situations | thinks we were an entertaining side |
| FA Cup, knocking out Liverpool and Man City | negative goal difference |
| goal of the season (Garnacho) best team goal (Mainoo, FA Cup) | 8th place finish |
| took captaincy away from Maguire and sidelined him | persisted with Rashford |
| Martinez | Onana, Malacia, Antony |
| Mount | Mount |
| ? | cutback goal after cutback goal |
whole list of made up rage
I watched Suits
Doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
What kind of cup is that?
It was one word. You literally disregarded an entire post of resonable concerns over a single word, that wasn't even meant as an insult.
In response to this post, which I see was quoted but I couldn't find:
Yep, INEOS cannot be trusted at the moment.
They will carry out a review, then I bet you they will all go on holiday.
Instead, a well run club who wants to show that its different from the old regime should:
1. Make a decision on the manage
2. Start on key deals, CB, CM, ST and have them in before pre season.
Instead what will we do? nothing, we will fly to America with Lindelof and Martinez as our CB pairing with Maguire, Kambwala as back ups. Then go into the season wondering why we leak goals, go into the market panic and sign Branthwaite for 80m and have him as backup to Licha.
(Formatting privileges are keyed off at the moment.)
What does "trusted" mean anyway? We've patiently waiting for progress over a decade now and we can wait another few days. INEOS will make a decision and we'll moan or celebrate appropriately, but there is zero chance that they will not make a decision on who the manager should be. As for key deals, it would be ideal to have everything done and dusted before flying off to America, but that's not the real world. Deals get done on the transfer day deadline all the time. It's a Hobbesian state of nature out there, mates.
Yep, INEOS cannot be trusted at the moment.
They will carry out a review, then I bet you they will all go on holiday.
Instead, a well run club who wants to show that its different from the old regime should:
1. Make a decision on the manage
2. Start on key deals, CB, CM, ST and have them in before pre season.
Instead what will we do? nothing, we will fly to America with Lindelof and Martinez as our CB pairing with Maguire, Kambwala as back ups. Then go into the season wondering why we leak goals, go into the market panic and sign Branthwaite for 80m and have him as backup to Licha.
(Formatting privileges are keyed off at the moment.)
What does "trusted" mean anyway? We've patiently waiting for progress over a decade now and we can wait another few days. INEOS will make a decision and we'll moan or celebrate appropriately, but there is zero chance that they will not make a decision on who the manager should be. As for key deals, it would be ideal to have everything done and dusted before flying off to America, but that's not the real world. Deals get done on the transfer day deadline all the time. It's a Hobbesian state of nature out there, mates.
It is an insult, and yes, I don't answer to posts that resort to insulting the logic of other fans.
You're so strong
Rumours going around that he's gone.
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