I personallyt don't think its about accepting mediocrity. If I thought he would have us finish 8th again next year with a negative goal difference etc I would sack him. I dont think that though. I think he'll do better next year, so I want him because I dont think anyone else could be any more likely to come in and do better.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It's on the manager for seeing his keeper is shaky and starting him again in the next game , because being stubborn is his thing. And also on the manager is the tactical naivety when we were leading.
The problem is that the United way has become equal to trusting the manager blindly and hoping it works out. Arteta gets thrown around so often but people ignore that for every Arteta there are tons of managers who get given time & turn out to be absolutely shit. There are also a lot of examples of managers who have gone into clubs and made instant impact. Premier league is very strong at the top now, if you don’t play well then you don’t just drop to 5th/6th but as we found out this season ( Chelsea last season) you can go down much further.
I think most fans would have wanted him to stay if regardless of position he had shown actual footballing progress which made you feel like that with minor tweaks we can build a team capable of getting 70+ points but it looks unlikely right now. Has Ten Hag shown anything to suggest that in 3 years time he can build a 90 point team ? Surely even if we can’t think of winning the league right now but the ultimate aim should be that long term and you have to decide if your manager can lead you there at some point
I think most fans would have wanted him to stay if regardless of position he had shown actual footballing progress which made you feel like that with minor tweaks we can build a team capable of getting 70+ points but it looks unlikely right now. Has Ten Hag shown anything to suggest that in 3 years time he can build a 90 point team ? Surely even if we can’t think of winning the league right now but the ultimate aim should be that long term and you have to decide if your manager can lead you there at some point
Let's set aside the 89/90 United team that finished the league in 13th position with 48 points and a -1 goal difference. What leads you to believe that the current team is the worst United team compared to the 21/22 team, which finished the season with 58 points and 16 wins and 0 trophy?
That was achieved by 2 managers? As in a single person didn't oversee that catastrophe.
The Daily Planet
I was j/k, man. Don't let others take away those great feeling of us winning FA Cup against all odds.
And no. I don't think anyone here hate EtH.
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That makes it even look worse. Typically, when a new manager takes charge of a football club, there's a bounce-back effect. We had two managers and recorded our lowest points total, fewest wins, no trophy and so on.
We haven't been enjoyable to watch in 1.5 years, but sure let's add another year of bad football to that...
I might be wrong but I don't see enough fans changing their minds or INEOS caring what fans think in the short term anyway. We all know he won that game by parking the bus and hitting on the break and he can't do that in the league. It was a nice win but completely meaningless in terms of what needs to change and what INEOS are all about long term. But we and they still come to the same problem as before that we can't move forward except very slowly (Ten Hag in) and we mustn't go backward (Tuchel in). We are trapped in football no man's land.
The best thing INEOS can do politically is sacrifice ETH but keep the project going. So we get Poch or (ugh) Frank and a season of grace in which to baby step forward again. Ten Hag ends up as a blood sacrifice on the altar of fan impatience.
Personally I would keep him but I know that's not how the game works. Maybe it should be. Sure he's brought it on himself to some extent but the flaws lie mainly with the club, not him.
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the standard of drivel that has been served up
A manager thinking Antony is worth 80 mil
That playing awb at lb was ever a good idea
Playing Casemiro at cb and not playing two holding midfielders to look after him
Dropping more hefty transfer fees on Mount
Finishing bottom of a easy cl group
Conceding the most amount of goals in a cl group by a pl team
-2 goal diff or whatever it is
When asked “are you worried you’re conceding so many shots” he answered no because we aren’t losing goals….yer great except it’s only a matter of time before we get dicked over
He broke so many poor performance records
I’ll celebrate any cup win. But I’m not putting that success to him, he’s very lucky to have silverware
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Do you mind sharing with us how someone becomes a true United fan such as yourself? I'd love to see the explanation on how glory hunters support a club that hasn't won a league title in 11 years.
Maybe being in the minority of people who see football as a form of entertainment and not an actual lifestyle skews my perception here, but the #1 reason I want him gone is because I'm really tired of us being out of any big title challenge by the end of January.
Would a new manager fix this immediately? Probably not, but it might. Whereas keeping Ten Hag around certainly won't.
I have no doubt he'll do better next year. I don't think 8th and a negative GD is a good reflection of his managerial capabilities. But I'm willing to bet my kidney we will be out of any real European and domestic trophy discussion by February and the most we'll have to look forward to for half the aeason will be another possible Mickey Mouse cup run.
I don't think there's any manager that can come in and win us the league on his first season, but I'd like us to at least stay in the conversation for a while. And that's the one thing ETH has never even been close to delivering.
Would a new manager fix this immediately? Probably not, but it might. Whereas keeping Ten Hag around certainly won't.
I have no doubt he'll do better next year. I don't think 8th and a negative GD is a good reflection of his managerial capabilities. But I'm willing to bet my kidney we will be out of any real European and domestic trophy discussion by February and the most we'll have to look forward to for half the aeason will be another possible Mickey Mouse cup run.
I don't think there's any manager that can come in and win us the league on his first season, but I'd like us to at least stay in the conversation for a while. And that's the one thing ETH has never even been close to delivering.
That's what I am hoping is the case
As soon as I saw the McKenna news, it made me fairly sure Ten Hag is staying.
This is going to be a very interesting summer if we do, what looked unthinkable, and stick by him.
Also big pressure on him right from the off next season. We can use the logic, surely it can't be any worse, but if we can't get these injury issues worked out and the reason for them solved, what's to say we won't have more of the same.
I want to believe, and I hope he turns it around, if we are going to back him.
This is going to be a very interesting summer if we do, what looked unthinkable, and stick by him.
Also big pressure on him right from the off next season. We can use the logic, surely it can't be any worse, but if we can't get these injury issues worked out and the reason for them solved, what's to say we won't have more of the same.
I want to believe, and I hope he turns it around, if we are going to back him.
Great Cup win on Saturday. But I can't help how I feel, I've lost faith in him over the last 15 months for the following reasons:
- disastrous signings of overpriced players who were clearly not good enough, were injury prone or that we didn't need; can he seriously be trusted with any future signings or will Ineos remove that responsibility from him completely?
- persisting in picking players who were woefully out of form, for months on end; is he going to do this again?
- setting up a team that consistently conceded the most shots per game of any other team in the league bar Sheffield United (one of the worst PL teams of all time); is he going to do this again?
- some of the worst performances and hammerings I've ever seen from a United team;
- lowest league finish in over 3 decades, 14 league defeats and a negative goal difference.
I've got nothing against the guy personally and if he learns from his mistakes, I'm sure he can still be a good manager for us. But if he gets another season and we see a repeat of what happened this season, then his position really becomes untenable.
- disastrous signings of overpriced players who were clearly not good enough, were injury prone or that we didn't need; can he seriously be trusted with any future signings or will Ineos remove that responsibility from him completely?
- persisting in picking players who were woefully out of form, for months on end; is he going to do this again?
- setting up a team that consistently conceded the most shots per game of any other team in the league bar Sheffield United (one of the worst PL teams of all time); is he going to do this again?
- some of the worst performances and hammerings I've ever seen from a United team;
- lowest league finish in over 3 decades, 14 league defeats and a negative goal difference.
I've got nothing against the guy personally and if he learns from his mistakes, I'm sure he can still be a good manager for us. But if he gets another season and we see a repeat of what happened this season, then his position really becomes untenable.
I just found so little enjoyment in watching us so often last season. I hope we make some drastic changes to the squad, and Ten Hag really tactically wakes up now and get a proper grip of what the PL requires.
Yeah I'm sure when we finish 6th or 7th the usual suspects will be claiming it was a stellar improvement, proof we're progressing, wanting us to give him a new contract on top of his extension.
This Tuchel fallout narrative is starting to get very tiring indeed,would advise you go over to the thread on him and see what the Chelsea fan says on the matter.
Football is about being entertained. With us having spent 400 million since Ten Hag got here, I don't think we're asking too much when we say the football shouldn't be such painful viewing. If it was just about glory hunting we'd be happy just to have won two trophies.
40 percent of our trophies in 18 percent of the time.
Either that, or the players downed tools, not his fault.
This. He is one of the exceptions. Never managed before and turned Arse into a regular title chasing team, playing excellent football as well. Emery couldnt do it at Arse and this could be a one season time with Villa. Look how Howe has dropped off. Even Klopp was erratic.
TH is 50/50 to get us back into top 4 at best. There has been nothing this season to show we can make that Arteta leap, unless we bring in 4/5 superb players, either promoted from the youth or bought, as this present lot cant do it.
TH could revert back to what he was trying to do with Bruno and Mount and a big hole in the middle, at the start of the new season. The last 2 games of the last season were the exception and thankfully got results, but you cant rely on that style all season long and it seemed a stopgap solution.
Sounds like it's all about saving money so he could end up staying due to financial reasons then
Hasnt his salary been cut by 25% as we are not in Ch Lge?
I get the concern around the first two in regards to Pochettino post Spurs and De Zerbi with heavy defeats, however find it ridiculous that Tuchel is considered in the same tier as them.
If he does stay then he needs to make sure he has some viable tactics ready for next season, even when we have injuries. Can't use the approach from the final in every game. If we stick to the same shite we've seen this season that saw us getting dumped 4-0 by the likes of Palace and dominated in countless other games then that would be a disaster. If he plays a functional midfield and makes sensible decisions then okay, but we've not really seen enough of that.
Yeah I understand not signing Arnautovic and bringing back Greenwood due to fan backlash, however if they buckle on sacking him due to winning FA Cup that's a huge red flag against them
Could be wrong but from what I know it's not that simple.
My brother knows a Prem footballer really well. City player. He told him a few things is never considered.
Things have changed a lot since Fergie days and player contracts. Player contracts are pages and pages long and go into the smallest of details. Including minutes on the pitch and percentages of games to be played if fit in a season.
We've heard we couldn't or didn't sign certain players because minutes they wanted could not be guaranteed.
Managers simply don't have the power likes of Fergie and Clough had.
Also just wanted to add. Foll saying Amad didn't get as much game time and Antony was played instead. Two reasons here that folk don't go into. 1 it could be simply Antony has specifics in his contract on minutes to be ayed. 2 EtH may have been handling Amad well in terms of how he introduced him and his injuries etc. It's a fine line. Not simply a case of fans wanting something, without knowing the detail
I don't, but one poster used his match going status to belittle another poster and tried to make out that we're all behind him because we "get it". I was just backing up the other poster by saying that isn't the case at all. And I agree, our fans are clueless at times. I also have memories of some fans sat near to me at OT giving Ronaldo pelters all game when he was only 18/19 years old.
Ashworth wasnt in place yet. Luke Shaw still injured.
Well said, one of the biggest issues I see here is that for many posters everything is black and white. Nothing is ever black and white in football, never has been and never will be
Unfortunately can see things going a bit quiet this week when reliable journos talk about there possibly being no time limit over season review
So you can't answer the question then ? I expected as much .You want me to explain why someone with better pedigree gets afforded more time and leeway than a relatively unknown/bum/potentially chancer?
are we at the stage where we're starting to muddy Ferguson's achievements to start propping up Ten Hag? Or is this just a weird repackaging of "time + underperforming = Ferguson success" equation that people want to believe in?
Who do you want as manager ?
How much time does he need ?
What if he starts off better than Saf ,did but not better than the ' nobody / bum / chancer " ' eth ( your words ) that he replaced ?
If that happens , Where are you going to go looking for your reason , to grant him more time ?
Nobody is muddying the waters on Saf . What he achieved is there for eternity .
His early years and troubles in the United job are part of his journey , they are fact .
They aren't something to be erased from history by sensitive souls like yourself . They are a record of what it took . The hard work , the patience , the perseverance , the good fortune . A reference , the only real reference we've got that is relevant to us..
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None, they're as bad as each other.
Do you seriously think that glory-hunting fans are still fans? Because there's not a whole lot of glory been going on in the last decade.
As a matter of interest, what, in your opinion, is a real fan? I'm fairly confident that your description won't match mine!
If your car's engine is shot and it won't drive properly, changing the tires repeatedly is not going to help. It's possible that it also needs new tires, but until you fix the engine, it'll be impossible to tell what else needs to be done. Blaming the tires is irrational.
For eleven years now, absolutely every manager has had all the same problems. What's more likely: that each and every one of them happened to have the exact same personal flaws, or that there are issues at the club that cause these problems no matter who the manager is?
When ETH first started, the improvements were significant and immediate. Then as time wore on and the nature of the club began to have its effect on his work, everything fell apart. On top of that, he was hit by a double-whammy of unbelievable injuries, including losing most of our defense for practically the entire season, and would-be key players clearly giving up the ghost (Rashford, Sancho) or having age catch up with them (Casemiro, Eriksen).
And somehow, half our fans decided that this was all Erik's fault.
For eleven years now, absolutely every manager has had all the same problems. What's more likely: that each and every one of them happened to have the exact same personal flaws, or that there are issues at the club that cause these problems no matter who the manager is?
When ETH first started, the improvements were significant and immediate. Then as time wore on and the nature of the club began to have its effect on his work, everything fell apart. On top of that, he was hit by a double-whammy of unbelievable injuries, including losing most of our defense for practically the entire season, and would-be key players clearly giving up the ghost (Rashford, Sancho) or having age catch up with them (Casemiro, Eriksen).
And somehow, half our fans decided that this was all Erik's fault.
Puchel, come on he deserves a bit more respect
Ive flipped a couple of times now. I have been firmly in the ETH out gang and called him a clown etc wanting him gone right away but no I find myself doing the ultimate knee jerk and thinking its ok if he stays. I thought we played some really nice stuff, defended with real discipline and thought he got things tactically spot on. On top of that i liked how the players reacted to him. One other thing is that out of those being touted as a possible replacement none of them stand out as absolute must haves so i have found myself wavering and flip flopping.
Ultimately I just dont think I know and am stuck in nowhere land. If he stays I wont be too bothered, if he goes I wont be too bothered. Hopeless on my part really.
Ultimately I just dont think I know and am stuck in nowhere land. If he stays I wont be too bothered, if he goes I wont be too bothered. Hopeless on my part really.