Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[tenpoless]

Have never seen a poll so close on caf before

 

[Wilt]

When does he return from holiday?

 

[King7Eric]

If he's staying, I genuinely don't expect an announcement that says, 'ETH IS STAYING WE BACK HIM'. That would be rather odd and lend credence to rumours he was almost sacked. Best just to let him get on with it.

Is the media even giving him stick?

There obviously won't be an official statement if he's staying but I would expect the media to be briefed. We would have a spate of breaking news from the usual mouthpieces ( Stone, Whitwell, Winter, Ducker etc).

Same for if he's sacked, though of course that will be followed by an official statement.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Surely the club have to make a stay/go commitment immediately to prevent our summer transfer situation to not get derailed by who next year's manager will be.

Why though? Why do United need to pander to the media? As far as they might be concerned, they spoke to a few managers, decided to stick with ETH and are just going about their business. We don’t release a statement every summer to say ‘we back the manager’ do we.

 

[greater wall]

There's more variation to that example, the players Arsenal / Arteta have purchased have performed at a significantly better level then what they were at their previous clubs.

Transfers shouldn't be determined from value alone but also how well they are inaugurated into the team and that comes down to the system and coaching. That's where the separation is.

Nicolas Pepe says hello.

 

[Sarni]

Why would the players not do what the manager asked?

Because it’s these fecking players letting everyone down and throwing all managers under them buses!

 

[Raoul]

Why though? Why do United need to pander to the media? As far as they might be concerned, they spoke to a few managers, decided to stick with ETH and are just going about their business. We don’t release a statement every summer to say ‘we back the manager’ do we.

Yes, you're right. They actually don't. But they would obviously say something if he was leaving.

 

[Redstain]

Nicolas Pepe says hello.

Yes a player signed by Unai Emery, the equivalent of blaming Erik for Maguire.

It's also not a suggestion to say managers can't get it wrong but it certainly has to be less frequent.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Because it’s these fecking players letting everyone down and throwing all managers under them buses!

Yeah its all down to the players and is nothing to do with them being sent put for games completely unprepared with no real game plan and not being taught any recognisable style of play.

 

[ForeverRed1]

If they were backing him surely it’d be out there by now. He’s getting sacked I reckon.

 

[Laurencio]

Why though? Why do United need to pander to the media? As far as they might be concerned, they spoke to a few managers, decided to stick with ETH and are just going about their business. We don’t release a statement every summer to say ‘we back the manager’ do we.

At this point you either extend his contract or you let him go. Too much speculation, too much media coverage, too much as been made of the "review". They can't just not do anything, that would seriously undermine the manager and the review they have done - either he is the right man or he isn't.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yes, you're right. They actually don't. But they would obviously say something if he was leaving.

If they don't say one way or another it could make players think twice about joining us. Depends if they want to work under ETH or not.

 

[git_united]

Why would the players not do what the manager asked?

I’m not agreeing with the previous poster that thisis what explains that specific performance. But as a general point, players can make mistakes in following instructions and positioning, just like they can delay a pass too long or choose to shoot rather than pass. I’ve seen some link on here to a video that showed how delayed presses/recoveries led to us being carved open (maybe against wolves?). This is what Mourinho complained about with Shaw, no?

Of course there’s a separate conversation to be had about whether the chosen system should be so vulnerable to simple mistakes.

 

[Wilt]

If they were backing him surely it’d be out there by now. He’s getting sacked I reckon.

Agree, think they’re waiting for the dust to settle.

The fact they’re reviewing the season would indicate they have no confidence in him.

 

[JPRouve]

I’m not agreeing with the previous poster that thisis what explains that specific performance. But as a general point, players can make mistakes in following instructions and positioning, just like they can delay a pass too long or choose to shoot rather than pass. I’ve seen some link on here to a video that showed how delayed presses/recoveries led to us being carved open (maybe against wolves?). This is what Mourinho complained about with Shaw, no?

Of course there’s a separate conversation to be had about whether the chosen system should be so vulnerable to simple mistakes.

We all know that and that's not the point of the conversation.

 

[Smores]

I can never quite understand this mentality from fans that, when one of our managers complains about how the club is run, it's just 'excuses galore'. I mean you can say that the manager wasn't good enough AND his criticisms were valid too. Every single manager except for Ole has expressed dismay about how the club has been run. Even if you don't like them personally, it's very hard for me at least to look at someone like LvG and think he's anything other than a very honest and very direct guy. Maybe they're not making excuses?

Moyes- the scouting system here is awful, I was shocked
Fans: he's just bitter and a crappy Everton manager

LVG: I get players that were seventh choice, and a club that's more interested in sponsorship deals than football
Fans: he's just bitter and plays boring football

Jose: people have no idea what's going on behind the scenes at this club, 2nd place my best achievement
Fans: he's just bitter and a has-been

Ralf: Scouting system here is bad, club needs open heart surgery
Fans: He's just bitter-what does he know

EtH: i don't set the prices, the club missed out on good players
Fans: He's just bitter- excuses galore

I really hope the whole INEOS takeover makes the next managers job a lot easier, because regardless of the ability of those managers (i don't think they were good enough) it sounds like it's been a nightmare for them. Us and Chelsea must be two of the worst big clubs in the world to manage.

It's not exactly complex psychoanalysis is it, people have one sided defensive views when they get sacked or 'fail'.

It's rare managers ever talk humbly about their own failings and I'm not even saying they should, however, if you then come out with one sided views then you're going to get called out of it.

Just because there's some truth to the complaints (and in all cases above their is) doesn't make them less of an excuse when they become the focal point of a managers complaints. Well in my opinion anyway.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

I’d be surprised if he’s not sacked tomorrow.

It’s a shambles.

How come?

 

[Marcelinho87]

Surely the club have to make a stay/go commitment immediately to prevent our summer transfer situation to not get derailed by who next year's manager will be.

Why would it matter if the club are the ones making the signings going forward?

 

[Raoul]

Why would it matter if the club are the ones making the signings going forward?

Its not like the club are going to conjure up new transfers by themselves. ETH would still be the one asking for specific players.

 

[JPRouve]

Why would it matter if the club are the ones making the signings going forward?

The identity of the new head coach can influence potential signings, positively or negatively.

 

[Marcelinho87]

Its not like the club are going to conjure up new transfers by themselves. ETH would still be the one asking for specific players.

From what I’ve read I don’t think so, I think the club will be the ones finding players and giving managers a list of said players.. I think under INEOS the manager is strictly head coach and that’s that.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Ten Hag was definitely right we're dynamic team. Shame it was mostly opposition teams creating xG.

 

[Marcelinho87]

The identity of the new head coach can influence potential signings, positively or negatively.

Possibly but then when a player gets interviewed it’s never “I wanted to play for so and so” it’s usually “when club x comes knocking you can’t turn them down” or similar.

Nobody has gone to Real to play for Ancelotti, they go there to play for Madrid.

 

[DJ_21]

Is he taking stick from the media ? He just won the FA Cup and is on holiday as far as I know.

He has been all season. Also the reports about him not being safe and all that nonsense will be playing on his mind. His bosses should put an end to it one way or another. Meant to be proactive. Yet to see it… glazers mark 2.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Possibly but then when a player gets interviewed it’s never “I wanted to play for so and so” it’s usually “when club x comes knocking you can’t turn them down” or similar.

Nobody has gone to Real to play for Ancelotti, they go there to play for Madrid.

They might be influenced by Real being the biggest richest club in the world that have a experienced successful manager who has just won the CL and La Liga, and lovely new revamped stadium, while Manchester United still haven't got the people who are going to run the club in place, have no idea who the manager is, might be in the EL, but might not be, the stadium is like an English Niagara Falls and the training and medical facilities are not yet up to scratch, but apart from that you are right.

 

[glazed]

I’m not agreeing with the previous poster that thisis what explains that specific performance. But as a general point, players can make mistakes in following instructions and positioning, just like they can delay a pass too long or choose to shoot rather than pass.

I think it's the case that Maguire and Evans just have to defend deeper because it's so easy to push the ball past them and beat them for pace. So they can't do anything but defend deep regardless of what they are told to do, to ensure a ball kicked past goes out of play. When they push up, this happens...

 

[Sarni]

From what I’ve read I don’t think so, I think the club will be the ones finding players and giving managers a list of said players.. I think under INEOS the manager is strictly head coach and that’s that.

That would be terrible way to treat ten Hag. He came here with the promise of being a prominent figure on transfers and we would restrict him to an advisory role and then ask him to embed players he may not have even wanted. If we stand by him we need to grant him more authority, just support him better in getting the players he wants than we have so far, otherwise we are setting him up for failure because how can you expect him to do well with players he hadn’t asked for and selected himself?

 

[glazed]

He came here with the promise of being a prominent figure on transfers and we would restrict him to an advisory role and then ask him to embed players he may not have even wanted.

The point is that the transfer department and the head coach have to already be on the same page about playing style and what's needed. If they're not you get exactly the Frankenstein squad problems we now have.

 

[JPRouve]

I think it's the case that Maguire and Evans just have to defend deeper because it's so easy to push the ball past them and beat them for pace. So they can't do anything but defend deep regardless of what they are told to do, to ensure a ball kicked past goes out of play. When they push up, this happens...

They didn't defend deeper. While largely playing without Martinez and Varane our defensive line went up 60 centimeters compared to last season.

 

[Foolsgold21]

That would be terrible way to treat ten Hag. He came here with the promise of being a prominent figure on transfers and we would restrict him to an advisory role and then ask him to embed players he may not have even wanted. If we stand by him we need to grant him more authority, just support him better in getting the players he wants than we have so far, otherwise we are setting him up for failure because how can you expect him to do well with players he hadn’t asked for and selected himself?

This level of authority to the manager is what has heavily contributed to the post Fergie wilderness years

 

[Sarni]

This level of authority to the manager is what has heavily contributed to the post Fergie wilderness years

We have already invested £400m in Ten Hag’s vision by buying players he wanted. If we now keep him it means we are happy with the outcome so far, so the best course is to just keep on proceeding on the same path.

 

[AneRu]

Why though? Why do United need to pander to the media? As far as they might be concerned, they spoke to a few managers, decided to stick with ETH and are just going about their business. We don’t release a statement every summer to say ‘we back the manager’ do we.

We don't finish 8th every summer neither. They might not make a full statement but they need to let the fans know which is which the same way they briefed about their review. Keeping this up in the air is dividing the fans reminiscent of the schism during the Ole days.

 

[tomaldinho1]

At this point you either extend his contract or you let him go. Too much speculation, too much media coverage, too much as been made of the "review". They can't just not do anything, that would seriously undermine the manager and the review they have done - either he is the right man or he isn't.

No, it’s perfect how it is. Coach with something to prove, new ownership with new ideas, squad needing an overhaul. No need tying ETH into a new deal, he won’t believe he’s earned one and it will be way more expensive to sack him. Season starts, we’ll know how things are going relatively soon, then they can extend on a short term deal or not.

 

[tomaldinho1]

We don't finish 8th every summer neither. They might not make a full statement but they need to let the fans know which is which the same way they briefed about their review. Keeping this up in the air is dividing the fans reminiscent of the schism during the Ole days.

Yes but we still wouldn’t release a press story about it. Journos all just assumed given the noise and 8th place he was gone, now they look like plums and are praying for news soon so they can save some face. ‘Told you he was going to be sacked’

 

[sepulturite]

The phrase from the interviews with Sir Jim that stuck with me was “walk to the right solution rather than run to the wrong one”.

From that I infer that they will make their decision, they will make sure the logic is sound (in their own minds) and they won’t let external pressures influence them.

It was also clear that aligning to the playing style they have defined is critical. With Ten Hag going on holiday straight away after the FA Cup final, I wonder if the decision is pending a conversation with Ten Hag over this playing style and whether fundamentally he can deliver that and frankly wants to.

Wasn't there a member that had your username before? I'm sure there was.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

Its not like the club are going to conjure up new transfers by themselves. ETH would still be the one asking for specific players.

Surely the club won't be relying on the manager to choose players anymore. What's the point of our new set-up if that's the case?

 

[lex talionis]

I’m ok with ETH (the available options are problematic) but what I would not be ok with is ETH having sole authority over transfers. He’s been sgbolic at this aspect of building a squad. Somebody needs to tell him, that there will not be another Antony and another Mount.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I’m ok with ETH (the available options are problematic) but what I would not be ok with is ETH having sole authority over transfers. He’s been sgbolic at this aspect of building a squad. Somebody needs to tell him, that there will not be another Antony and another Mount.

All ETH should be doing is saying which positions he wants filling and then the powers that be will give him options that he can chose from. No way can we go along the route of players he has worked with before.

 

[SunTzu]

Wasn't there a member that had your username before? I'm sure there was.

I’m sorry, I wouldn’t know. I’ve only been here a few months. More of a lurker than a poster.

 

[Sarni]

I’m ok with ETH (the available options are problematic) but what I would not be ok with is ETH having sole authority over transfers. He’s been sgbolic at this aspect of building a squad. Somebody needs to tell him, that there will not be another Antony and another Mount.

Then we are setting ourselves up for another year of excuses because at the end of the day how can you expect him to get results with players he didn’t want? It will also take time for him to learn more about these players, their skills, patterns of play, character. Unless of course we are talking long term and we are willing to give him more time.