Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[devilish]

Regarding ETH and player fees, the situation is a entangled and blame needs to be shared.

ETH didn't negotiate players fees. That's a fact. However being a SAF's manager type of manager (something ETH placed as a condition to join us in the first place) he had a big say on which players we wanted and he had a veto on any transfers we might do. In my opinion ETH wanted Antony, he was kept updated at each step of the way and he was told that Antony would cost us 80m and whether he wished to proceed with the deal. Anyone old enough to remember SAF-Gill administration knows very well how many times United were close to a player only for SAF to come out and say that there's no value in the market. That's because SAF was financially savvy enough to know that signing players way above their value is counterproductive to the club and ultimately to himself.

In my opinion the old system was meant to distribute the blame on as many people as possible so that no one ends up being accountable. Arnold/Woodward had a say on transfers but could easily come out saying that football is the DOF's domain. Murtough controlled the football domain however he could easily say that the financial side was tackled by the CEO and that the manager had a VETO on transfers while the manager could easily insist on transfers only to be bailed out by saying that he wasn't at the negotiation table when the deal was being made. That's the reason why I was so against it (and was ultimately the reason why I got the tag).

 

[sepulturite]

I think if that was the case the wouldnt have dragged it this long

This is the thing for me, if he was staying I think we would have known well before now.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

I was happy with Ineos coming in and their plans and straight talking about different stuff in and around the club. But this whole process with Ten Hag is just a shambles.

How can they not know what to do, after all these weeks and months, and how is it possible that they just can not make a decision. If everything will go like this the next couple of years it will be very difficult.

Just make a decision. Sack him, my preference, or keep him. Just make up your mind.

They are probably talking to other people and don’t want to sack him before they have someone else, like the Bayern situation. But this is ‘t fair to anyone.

 

[devilish]

Surely he should care? As the money spent on one player has an impact on funds available for squad building

In my opinion most manager post SAF suffered what I call the Napoleon III syndrome. Napoleon III was a good leader who managed to work his way up to the top job. However he lacked the military brilliance of his Uncle. His insistence in proving himself to be at par to the great Napoleon lead to him going toe to toe against another giant ie Otto Von Bismarck. That proved the end of him. I see plenty of parallels between Napoleon III and managers post SAF. They are so obsessed in filling the great man's shoes that they end up taking responsibilities that are way beyond their experience and abilities.

What many fail to understand is that the modern manager lack the experience old school managers had. The latter were raised at a time when there was just them and the owners with the latter often lacking the football acumen to fully manage a club. Roles such as CEO, DOFs, Sporting directors, head of recruitments and technical directors didn't exist. Managers like SAF knew every process and they understood how important financials were simply because they had no choice on the matter. The modern manager has as much ability on those matter as an SAS soldier would have in fighting with full plate armor and a sword.

 

[devilish]

I was happy with Ineos coming in and their plans and straight talking about different stuff in and around the club. But this whole process with Ten Hag is just a shambles.

How can they not know what to do, after all these weeks and months, and how is it possible that they just can not make a decision. If everything will go like this the next couple of years it will be very difficult.

Just make a decision. Sack him, my preference, or keep him. Just make up your mind.

They are probably talking to other people and don’t want to sack him before they have someone else, like the Bayern situation. But this is ‘t fair to anyone.

INEOS biggest mistake was to choose so many people who were tied to long gardening leave (ie Berrada and Ashworth). That means that we're in June and those who are meant to take the football decisions aren't there.

 

[Apokalips]

Its technically true, but I think its a bit disingenuous. If you keep insisting on a player even when the fees are unreasonably high, then you are somewhat accountable. Unless you think ETH was completely out of the loop during negotiations and only knew of the fees when the signing was completed? then ok

Many genuinely do, or at least pretend to, believe this as it absolves Erik of blame. Very weird to think that he would have no idea of the negotiations as it is happening and have a major say in whether we proceed at a price point or not.

I can't help but continuously take this as an insult toward SAF.

Me too and it really pisses me off, to be honest. Manchester United fans, of all people, acting as though Fergie is just any guy who did what he did because the club were patient and gave him time. Really trivialises what made Fergie as great as he was.

 

[Marcelinho87]

INEOS biggest mistake was to choose so many people who were tied to long gardening leave (ie Berrada and Ashworth). That means that we're in June and those who are meant to take the football decisions aren't there.

They couldn't win either way tbf, settle for worse and then get called out when it goes tits up or go for the best but have to wait as we see now.

 

[devilish]

They couldn't win either way tbf, settle for worse and then get called out when it goes tits up or go for the best but have to wait as we see now.

One between Berrada and Ashworth should be in place. I rate both highly but surely there are other sporting directors who are equally good.

 

[devilish]

If its true that ETH had gone out saying that transfers negotiations were a Glazers mess then surely he's on his way out. No one can shift the blame on the major shareholders and get away with it.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

Eriksen just doesn't seem like a club signing to me. We signed older player under Ed, but usually big names. We know Ten Hag really pushed for FDJ, when we signed Eriksen I'm sure it was reported that Ten Hag pushed for him as well.

He was an able backup/rotation option for Frenkie. And having been brought through in Holland with Ajax he would be familiar with the tactics/styles of play Ten Hag wanted to implement.

On Hojlund fair enough.

Fair enough, I can't find anything one way or the other but your points make sense. I also forgot that he trained with the Ajax u18s while EtH was still there so there is that connection as well.

 

[Amir]

Unless he wasn't aware of the fee, that implies that he agreed with the valuation?

I wouldn't know. Like I said, it doesn't matter. Antony isn't a player for United - not at 30m and not at 80m, so it's not about the price at all.

 

[hobbers]

We're already seeing the results of putting way too many cooks in the kitchen.


For football decisions at City, they have

Khaldoon (owner representative)
Soriano (CEO)
Txiki (Football Director)


We've got

Joel+Avram (Glazer reps)
Ratcliffe (Owner 2)
Reece and Nevin (Board members representing Ineos)
Blanc (Ineos Sport CEO, interim United CEO)
Brailsford (Head of marginal gains?)
Berrada (pending CEO)
Ashworth (pending Football Director)
Wilcox (Technical director)

 

[Amir]

Because if he lives in the real world, he will realize that budget constraints exist and that every pound spent on one player is a pound that can't be spent on another player.

It was the end of the transfer window. It was either keeping money in the bank for six months or a year or having it run on the pitch.

If he thought Antony was a United player, he was wrong. That's the main issue. A manager shouldn't be dealing with money issues.

 

[GDaly95]

We'll surely know by the end of Monday. Outside chance we'll know tomorrow.

Don't even know what I want.

 

[Amir]

We're already seeing the results of putting way too many cooks in the kitchen.


For football decisions at City, they have

Khaldoon (owner representative)
Soriano (CEO)
Txiki (Football Director)


We've got

Joel+Avram (Glazer reps)
Ratcliffe (Owner 2)
Reece and Nevin (Board members representing Ineos)
Blanc (Ineos Sport CEO, interim United CEO)
Brailsford (Head of marginal gains?)
Berrada (pending CEO)
Ashworth (pending Football Director)
Wilcox (Technical director)

Well, it's the result of the reorganization which has yet to be complete. Once it's done things are supposed to be simpler. Brailsford, Blanc and Ratcliffe are hardly supposed to be involved in the day to day or even week to week. Let alone the Glazers.

Also, do we really know everyone involved at City? Not as much as we do when it comes to United.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

It was the end of the transfer window. It was either keeping money in the bank for six months or a year or having it run on the pitch.

If he thought Antony was a United player, he was wrong. That's the main issue. A manager shouldn't be dealing with money issues.

That's fine, but then he also can't complain about not being backed in subsequent transfer windows.

 

[hobbers]

Well, it's the result of the reorganization which has yet to be complete. Once it's done things are supposed to be simpler. Brailsford, Blanc and Ratcliffe are hardly supposed to be involved in the day to day or even week to week. Let alone the Glazers.

Also, do we really know everyone involved at City? Not as much as we do when it comes to United.

They will be though, because Brailsford and Blanc are the two main guys at Ineos Sport and they have been heavily involved in all Ineos sport projects. And we are now their flagship project.

Plus most of their other projects are failing pretty badly so they need a win. So we're going to have an Ineos group, Club group and potentially, if they feel like it, a Glazer group, all vying for control over decisions. Very likely to end in a shambles.

 

[JPRouve]

It was the end of the transfer window. It was either keeping money in the bank for six months or a year or having it run on the pitch.

If he thought Antony was a United player, he was wrong. That's the main issue. A manager shouldn't be dealing with money issues.

Antony transfer wasn't an end of the transfer window move. If reports are correct our first offer of 60m was rejected in early July and it was already reported at the time that they wanted more than 80m€. We came back for him later while already knowing that the fee was very high.

 

[hobbers]

Christ I didnt even follow Nice's exploits this season. From leading Ligue 1 in November to finishing 5th. So Ineos have masterminded going from 5th to 9th to 5th to 9th to 5th since taking over. Inspiring.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

INEOS biggest mistake was to choose so many people who were tied to long gardening leave (ie Berrada and Ashworth). That means that we're in June and those who are meant to take the football decisions aren't there.

I understand that but just waiting and doing nothing is just not fair to anyone. There has to be someone in the building that can make a decision.

 

[glazed]

We also press a lot higher than we did under Ole, by design. Calling Ole ball is a bit of a lazy interpretation.

True it's over simplifying. But fundamentally its 'been a failure of high press and (in theory) high line all season versus counter attack and sitting deeper at Wembley. And that latter is what Ole did and what ETH was brought in to end.

 

[Sarni]

Liverpool didn't have a good Footballing structure, they had the notoriously terrible committee. They changed the structure during Klopp's second season at his request.

Klopp only agreed to join because he knew how good the structure was going to be and truth be told, the prospect of having footballing structure looming over the club is enough to help the manager perform better. ETH hasn’t had that.

 

[The Hilton]

If that were true (which I doubt) it could well be the case for fans on both sides of the Ten Hag in/out divide.

I don't think many (if any) were miserable immediately after we won the cup last Saturday.

Then you weren't paying attention enough, there were several posters on here immediately after the match posting repeatedly about how Ten Hag should be gone, and arguing with posts that were sympathetic to him, rather than celebrating the win. There was one poster who kept replying "8th" to posts suggesting that winning the FA cup was an achievement that should allow the manager to stay on. It was all very telling, and your doubt is irrelevant in the face of what happened.

You may not have been one of them, and maybe you really do see yourself as supporting the club while those who want the manager to stay are putting him above the club, but trying to paint those who agree with you about wanting the manager out as putting the club first is nonsense given how plenty of them were aggrieved we won because it could strengthen the manager's position.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Then you weren't paying attention enough, there were several posters on here immediately after the match posting repeatedly about how Ten Hag should be gone, and arguing with posts that were sympathetic to him, rather than celebrating the win. There was one poster who kept replying "8th" to posts suggesting that winning the FA cup was an achievement that should allow the manager to stay on. It was all very telling, and your doubt is irrelevant in the face of what happened.

You may not have been one of them, and maybe you really do see yourself as supporting the club while those who want the manager to stay are putting him above the club, but trying to paint those who agree with you about wanting the manager out as putting the club first is nonsense given how plenty of them were aggrieved we won because it could strengthen the manager's position.

I think you'll come to find that as usual, those posts were in response to 'ETH in' fans goading. If you (the generic "you", not you specifically) come in and start calling others idiots and claiming that they're not real fans, you can't act surprised when there's a response.

 

[Amir]

That's fine, but then he also can't complain about not being backed in subsequent transfer windows.

True. And he was backed to our best abilities.

 

[The Hilton]

I think you'll come to find that as usual, those posts were in response to 'ETH in' fans goading. If you (the generic "you", not you specifically) come in and start calling others idiots and claiming that they're not real fans, you can't act surprised when there's a response.

I don't think I will find that, given how many of the posts were just supporting the manager. There were undoubtedly a few inflammatory posts, but they weren't the majority.

However even the inflammatory posts don't excuse anyone claiming to put the club first entering the manager thread in order to argue with posters celebrating and backing the manager, within an hour or so of us winning the FA cup. Someone who actually puts the club first would be able to take a day off to celebrate a great FA Cup win before piling into the manager thread, belittling the achievement in order to feel vindicated.

 

[Amir]

They will be though, because Brailsford and Blanc are the two main guys at Ineos Sport and they have been heavily involved in all Ineos sport projects. And we are now their flagship project.

I believe it's supposed to be a more supervising role. Involved, yes. Running thngs, no.

Plus most of their other projects are failing pretty badly so they need a win. So we're going to have an Ineos group, Club group and potentially, if they feel like it, a Glazer group, all vying for control over decisions. Very likely to end in a shambles.

Unless of course those people are a little smarter than that and will set things up well.

 

[Amir]

Antony transfer wasn't an end of the transfer window move. If reports are correct our first offer of 60m was rejected in early July and it was already reported at the time that they wanted more than 80m€. We came back for him later while already knowing that the fee was very high.

We came back and signed him on the final day/days of the transfer window, a long time after early July. I don't see why that matters.

 

[JPRouve]

We came back and signed him on the final day/days of the transfer window, a long time after early July. I don't see why that matters.

You don't see how two entire months to assess the price of a player and alternatives matter, compared to entering negotiations at the last minute?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I don't think I will find that, given how many of the posts were just supporting the manager. There were undoubtedly a few inflammatory posts, but they weren't the majority.

However even the inflammatory posts don't excuse anyone claiming to put the club first entering the manager thread in order to argue with posters celebrating and backing the manager, within an hour or so of us winning the FA cup. Someone who actually puts the club first would be able to take a day off to celebrate a great FA Cup win before piling into the manager thread, belittling the achievement in order to feel vindicated.

Goes both ways then. What you're arguing is that it's perfectly fine for somebody to come in here (a discussion board) after the game to say "we should keep the manager", but it's wrong for somebody to come in and say "the manager did well today but should still go".

 

[stevoc]

Then you weren't paying attention enough, there were several posters on here immediately after the match posting repeatedly about how Ten Hag should be gone, and arguing with posts that were sympathetic to him, rather than celebrating the win. There was one poster who kept replying "8th" to posts suggesting that winning the FA cup was an achievement that should allow the manager to stay on. It was all very telling, and your doubt is irrelevant in the face of what happened.

Well I must say I didn't notice several people being negative. I was too busy enjoying the win and the aftermath.

You may not have been one of them, and maybe you really do see yourself as supporting the club while those who want the manager to stay are putting him above the club, but trying to paint those who agree with you about wanting the manager out as putting the club first is nonsense given how plenty of them were aggrieved we won because it could strengthen the manager's position.

No it's a fact mate if you think about it. Outside of posdibly a few lunatics. If any United fan who thinks we should have a different manager it's because they don't think the manager we have is good enough, is the right man for this job or both.

I doubt anyone woke up one day and suddenly out of the blue developed an irrational dislike for a football manager that is for some reason more important to them than the fortunes of the club they've supported for years/decades.

Be serious mate.

 

[The Hilton]

Goes both ways then. What you're arguing is that it's perfectly fine for somebody to come in here (a discussion board) after the game to say "we should keep the manager", but it's wrong for somebody to come in and say "the manager did well today but should still go".

That's a false equivalence though. The "we should keep the manager" posts at the time were at least celebratory, even if a couple were inflammatory. The ones spamming "8th" or belittling the achievement within minutes of winning the FA cup weren't, and those posters had to actively seek out the thread rather than celebrating.

And you know full well that the posts I'm talking about weren't "the manager did well today but should still go". It's bizarre to me how far some of the more reasonable posters in the "manager out" camp will go to act like the unhinged posters in that camp don't exist. Even then, a more reasonable post like that could have waited until after some celebrations. But that only happens if the poster deemed winning the FA Cup as cause for celebration, which a few clearly didn't.

 

[RedC]

Me too and it really pisses me off, to be honest. Manchester United fans, of all people, acting as though Fergie is just any guy who did what he did because the club were patient and gave him time. Really trivialises what made Fergie as great as he was.

This is one of the stupidest things I've read in this thread that is generally full of nonsense.

 

[Irishman]

Disgusted with alot of delirious comments in this thread. Clearly so many posts are from non Utd fans who are playing Red Cafe.

Ten Hag is by far the best Utd manager since Fergie. You do not win 2 pieces of silverware in your first 2 seasons and having to put up with the chaos at Utd without having fantastic management skills.

I'm 100% behind him. Can you imagine what he'd do with decent backing in the boardroom and with proper football people around him.

Any wonder the ABUs and imposters on this forum are targeting him relentlessly.

 

[Amir]

You don't see how two entire months to assess the price of a player and alternatives matter, compared to entering negotiations at the last minute?

I do. But nothing changes my view: United are at fault for the price, ETH is at fault for even wanting Antony. Not for the fee. He never should have wanted him.

 

[E-mal]

This is one of the stupidest things I've read in this thread that is generally full of nonsense.

How is he wrong?

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Disgusted with alot of delirious comments in this thread. Clearly so many posts are from non Utd fans who are playing Red Cafe.

Ten Hag is by far the best Utd manager since Fergie. You do not win 2 pieces of silverware in your first 2 seasons and having to put up with the chaos at Utd without having fantastic management skills.

I'm 100% behind him. Can you imagine what he'd do with decent backing in the boardroom and with proper football people around him.

Any wonder the ABUs and imposters on this forum are targeting him relentlessly.

On behalf of us genuine @Man-United fans who support ten Hag, I am so sorry you have to put up with the posts spamming this thread by fake United fans pretending he is shite to wind the rest of us up. One for @Soley to sort out

 

[mythz]

Disgusted with alot of delirious comments in this thread. Clearly so many posts are from non Utd fans who are playing Red Cafe.

Ten Hag is by far the best Utd manager since Fergie. You do not win 2 pieces of silverware in your first 2 seasons and having to put up with the chaos at Utd without having fantastic management skills.

I'm 100% behind him. Can you imagine what he'd do with decent backing in the boardroom and with proper football people around him.

Any wonder the ABUs and imposters on this forum are targeting him relentlessly.

By far ,8 place is by far the best manager past Ferguson

 

[hobbers]

Disgusted with alot of delirious comments in this thread. Clearly so many posts are from non Utd fans who are playing Red Cafe.

Ten Hag is by far the best Utd manager since Fergie. You do not win 2 pieces of silverware in your first 2 seasons and having to put up with the chaos at Utd without having fantastic management skills.

I'm 100% behind him. Can you imagine what he'd do with decent backing in the boardroom and with proper football people around him.

Any wonder the ABUs and imposters on this forum are targeting him relentlessly.

What a devastatingly low bar. Though Jose won 2 pieces in 1 season.

We dont need to imagine what he'd do, he's already had absurd levels of backing, to the club's detriment. And he'll hate having football people around him dictating things to him. Like he hated the idea of working with Rangnick. And clearly Ashworth and Wilcox dont particularly want to work with him either.

 

[RedC]

How is he wrong?

It's a terrible, intentional misrepresentation of the point; nobody is claiming SAF wouldn't have been probably the greatest manager ever if we hadn't given him time.