Liverpool didn't have a good Footballing structure, they had the notoriously terrible committee. They changed the structure during Klopp's second season at his request.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
Liverpool didn't have a good Footballing structure, they had the notoriously terrible committee. They changed the structure during Klopp's second season at his request.
Naaah. Its more fun imagining the worst possible scenario, believing it wholeheartedly and having a right moan about it while calling everyone else clueless amongst other things.
Beside the flawed comparisons, there is the question of whether the Klopp/Arteta model is even the ideal.
We have seen from Klopp's stint at Liverpool that these stints don't last forever. It took time for Klopp's team to be competitive, then they were competitive for a few years, then they stopped being competitive, and now he's gone. The balance is 2 major titles in 9 seasons. Nobody knows whether the replacement manager will hit the ground running or need 'time' to win another major title.
In the case of Arteta the balance is no major titles won in his entire stint. Go back further and you have Pochettino, who spent years at Spurs, made them competitive, and won no major titles. They have not won any major titles since then either.
A lot of time and effort and structure and technocratic methodology to win relatively little.
We have seen from Klopp's stint at Liverpool that these stints don't last forever. It took time for Klopp's team to be competitive, then they were competitive for a few years, then they stopped being competitive, and now he's gone. The balance is 2 major titles in 9 seasons. Nobody knows whether the replacement manager will hit the ground running or need 'time' to win another major title.
In the case of Arteta the balance is no major titles won in his entire stint. Go back further and you have Pochettino, who spent years at Spurs, made them competitive, and won no major titles. They have not won any major titles since then either.
A lot of time and effort and structure and technocratic methodology to win relatively little.
In my opinion there isn't a model that is ideal, every clubs needs to evaluate their current situation every year and take decisions based on their own circumstances. Also clubs even the successful ones have no idea about what they are doing, the only notable difference is that the successful ones spot and act on mistakes faster than most but the immediate solution they chose isn't necessarily good, they are just ready to try something else quickly.
I think you would have seen these methods bear more fruit if you didn't have a club that have cheated the system winning the league basically every year.
True but barely. Without City, Tottenham would have 0 PL and Liverpool would have 3 PL while United would have 2.
Yeah but both Liverpool and Arsenal would have won more leagues, which to me justifies the means. It's not really realistic that a given methodology can just produce leagues or be deemed unsuccessful, and to me that journey of progression with 1 manager is more enjoyable than the conveyor belt method clubs like Chelsea use.
Awaiting for what exactly?? The Boss has one year left on his contract so why do you all think that you should know what his position is?! It’s obvious isn’t it, enjoy your holiday Boss and I’ll see you in August at Wembley.
Last edited:
But the point is whether it is an ideal model. It quite clearly isn't when it doesn't lead to a particular degree of success even when you have arguably the best manager in the World in Klopp.
The Newcastle game was 50/50, Brighton should have been out of sight in the first half. It's really the City win that's swung it. After the first first two, the poll was still 73% in favour of sacking him.
Now it's 50/50 even though no one can name our top 5 performances this season.
The big question for me is will he go back to that inept midfield shape that he played for 98% season with disastrous results? I don't think there is a DM out there who can cover the space it allows and I doubt that getting Martinez for a season and a Varane replacement will make a massive difference to that issue, been smashed plenty of times with that combo.
He has to come into next season with a more workable plan that ageing Cas, Mount and Bruno ahead of him. That was never going to work, and it is alarming that he thought otherwise. Fully expect him to stay now, but he needs to start next season fast.
He has to come into next season with a more workable plan that ageing Cas, Mount and Bruno ahead of him. That was never going to work, and it is alarming that he thought otherwise. Fully expect him to stay now, but he needs to start next season fast.
I think it boils down to the clubs' in question's financial power and the ability to generate a buzz that makes them unstoppable. Look at United in 2021, having finished 3rd and 2nd and been to a European final we were able to strengthen massively in a huge push for the title by buying Sancho, Ronaldo and Varane.
It didn't work out as planned due to preexisting squad imbalance, the manager's limitations and the fact that those signings didn't work out as expected but it serves to point out the fact that if we stabilize under a proper structure we have the inbuilt resources and critical mass to power a title challenge. I don't think Klopp wins just one title with us in 9 years. What we are missing is the right manager under a competent structure to put it all together.
The consensus on here has moved to keeping Ten Hag. You wouldn’t know it because the Hag out folks are loud and relentless.
As I said before, one cannot underestimate the impact the final had. It wasn’t so much that we beat Cheaty, because you can sometimes get lucky, but how we did it.
Defensively we were very good, but not flawless. We showed great teamwork and cohesion, but failed to deal with some of their overloads. Not a shame, City is good at those.
Our best performance was when in possession actually.
Some of our poorest games this season saw us giving the ball away almost continuously. And yet, against one of the best pressing sides in the world, we barely misplaced the ball, played through their press and factually destroyed their tactics.
So, how is it we can keep the ball against Cheaty and could not against Palace or Brentford?
Some of it is related to personnel, but the big reason is teamwork. Everyone doing their job, following instructions to a t.
EtH and staff pulled out all the stops to get the team motivated for this game and the tactics were rehearsed against Newcastle and Brighton. The result was a performance level that many didn’t think was possible anymore under Ten Hag.
You might say Ten Hag’s attacking tactics cannot work at this performance level. They will if we are even half as good on the ball as against Cheaty, and with squad improvements that are needed regardless.
As I said before, one cannot underestimate the impact the final had. It wasn’t so much that we beat Cheaty, because you can sometimes get lucky, but how we did it.
Defensively we were very good, but not flawless. We showed great teamwork and cohesion, but failed to deal with some of their overloads. Not a shame, City is good at those.
Our best performance was when in possession actually.
Some of our poorest games this season saw us giving the ball away almost continuously. And yet, against one of the best pressing sides in the world, we barely misplaced the ball, played through their press and factually destroyed their tactics.
So, how is it we can keep the ball against Cheaty and could not against Palace or Brentford?
Some of it is related to personnel, but the big reason is teamwork. Everyone doing their job, following instructions to a t.
EtH and staff pulled out all the stops to get the team motivated for this game and the tactics were rehearsed against Newcastle and Brighton. The result was a performance level that many didn’t think was possible anymore under Ten Hag.
You might say Ten Hag’s attacking tactics cannot work at this performance level. They will if we are even half as good on the ball as against Cheaty, and with squad improvements that are needed regardless.
Liverpool are the strongest argument for the model since they were very strong domestically (huge point tally in 18/19) and in Europe (3 CL finals).
Arsenal have been nowhere near as impressive, IMO. They have done little of note in Europe, and have yet to crack 90 points in the league.
Can the "they had a much better footballing structure in place set up for success, which is actually why Klopp went to them and said no to us" assertion even be corroborated? Or are people in this thread just saying random things? Where is that coming from?
There’s roughly between 10/15 of us that are season ticket holders with an age difference from early 20’s to mid 60’s and 100% of us all want ETH to have at least one more season. And taking to people at Wembley last week the feeling amongst the majority was the same.
Next Utd loss it’ll swing back to sack ….probably after Charity Shield
They changed their structure in the middle of the season in 2016. Sorry for the terrible source.
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/241881-reds-appoint-michael-edwards-as-sporting-director
Its biggest pile of shit thats what it is .
Never doubt knee jerk UtdI don’t think so, plus friendlies don’t count!
Never doubt knee jerk Utd
Us match going fans don’t do knee jerking, unlike those on Redcafe!
Match going fans always have my respectUs match going fans don’t do knee jerking, unlike those on Redcafe!
Match going fans who wanted every manager to stay.
Yeah, that's fair, I suppose ideal means different things to different people!
I think Arsenal are a season off it alright, but another very good one next year with a challenge for something other than the league and it would be validated. Klopp had more experience of the process than Arteta also.
Although I want to keep ETH, the final should really be seen as an argument not to. After refusing to change his tactics all season, he reverted to counter attacking football, the exact thing we don't want to do and he rightly said we shouldn't. After trashing the season saying any tactical compromise would be a backwards step and being a mess was a price worth paying, he threw his entire framework in the bin to beat City.
And applaud the manager off the pitch after we’ve just lost 4-0 to Crystal fecking Palace.
When England are knocked out of the euros, Wouldn't be surprised if they have Southgate lined up.
I'm sorry to do that but no ideal in this context has one meaning, it means the best, closest to perfection, most likely to yield success. Long term managers are quite obviously not ideal when they don't yield the best or most consistent results, few do but most don't. And in this context we don't even need to choose a side because there isn't an ideal or repeatable approach, results are highly dependent of the identity of the manager and his club. And we can expose that with this very simple idea, how do you get to Arteta being a good mid to long term appointment if you decide to stick with Emery? You don't because you would be with Emery and the same is true for Rodgers to Klopp, and for the latter it's especially true if you erase City, Rodgers isn't sacked in October 2015 even if he is 15th.
Personally I think he did such a bad job this season he should go but there is just enough there for iNEOS to take a punt. There are no obvious outstanding choices currently or I think we would have done that but ETH with a squad of players picked for him will do much better than the business he has had us conduct the last 2 summers.
Has anyone considered that this is just it. Nothing will be formally announced and it’ll stay like this until Pre Season when Ten Hag returns?
I have, but when they've made it so public that they're assessing the manager, I'd assume there will be some sort of public backing of him.
Onana isn't a worse shot stopper than De Gea of the last couple of years. That's the main reason he had to be replaced, he wasn't even doing the one thing he used to be good at anymore. We also wouldn't have won the FA Cup with De Gea in goal for the final. Onana is far more commanding and an overall more secure goalkeeper.
No, I expect the results of the audit to be made public before preseason because they briefed about an audit when they didn't have to.
I keep going back and forth in my mind on this. I think he's staying but surely they would've come and said he's staying by now. I'm 65% sure he's staying.
51 and rising, and other fan polls are much higher. I saw one at 91%.
Don’t worry, you still might get your wish if INEOS completely ignores the fanbase.
They will. 91% of the fanbase wanted Paul Mitchell. 50% probably still do and Ineos don’t care.
What happens when we don't get knocked out
Did we go back in time for the 1966 for the World cup, oh wait this is Euro's you can't go back in time for that
- Status