Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Irwin99]

Convenient that goals isn't included in this graphic.

Arsenal's goal's scoring was even worse than our ours under EtH in those two 8th place finishes under Arteta. I was surprised because in the past two seasons Arsenal seem to be scoring goals for fun, but it took some time for them to get going. Klopp's Liverpool were always high scoring though.

If EtH stays then this is something that simply has to improve.

 

[TsuWave]

It doesn't come from his agent but someone supposedly close to his agent. Peter Du Toit.

Never heard of this fella but I’ll put my eggs in this basket. Let’s go

Ah yes let's compare Klopps 7th season, after he won the CL and PL, to Ten Hag's second and then also claim that finishing 5th is worse than finishing 8th..

Jesus fecking Christ, is this really the level of argumentation going on here?

thread jumped the shark a while back

 

[rimaldo]

It doesn't come from his agent but someone supposedly close to his agent. Peter Du Toit.

i got some really nice hugo broos t-shirts the last time i went to turkey.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

His second line, he is not discussing in good faith. I really do not have time for childish comments.

As per his 1st line, he did not provide a reasonable excuse to why he is cherry picking specific seasons.

But don't you think it's fair to compare season to season instead of comparing a work in progress to a well oiled machine?

 

[Reiver]

I can give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to injuries as we seen the difference Martinez and Varane make and I can give him the benefit of the doubt that the experienced attacking players let him down so he has had to rely on young inconsistent forwards.

What I can’t forgive is the waste of money on average players and the fact we get walked through in midfield like an amateur side

Yes but we're led to believe by some on here that this woyl

Uh huh

Now post a second full season comparison, please

My thoughts exactly. We went backwards this season and it can't just be blamed on injuries.

 

[Wilt]

Well, we finished 8th but 8 points behind 4th.
Under Moyes we finished 7th but 15 points behind 4th

If that matters.

Moyes was indeed crap….
Moyes Utd finished 7th +21 goal difference 64 points
Moyes reached CL quarters

Ten Hag….
Record PL losses
Lowest finish 8th
First ever minus goal difference
Completely blew easiest CL group
Almost knocked out of cup by Coventry
Record 7-0 loss to fecking Liverpool
Antony £85.6m ….etc etc

Unbelievably, Ten Hag has somehow managed all the above with the worlds most expensive football squad.

Without doubt Ten Hag deserves to be sacked, but think INEOS will let him stay, for now.

 

[sdb4884]

Are we waiting for Terzic? the Dortmund manager after the UCL final ?

 

[Kirk lazarus]

Moyes was indeed crap….
Moyes Utd finished 7th +21 goal difference 64 points
Moyes reached CL quarters

Ten Hag….
Record PL losses
Lowest finish 8th
First ever minus goal difference
Completely blew easiest CL group
Almost knocked out of cup by Coventry
Record 7-0 loss to fecking Liverpool
Antony £85.6m ….etc etc

Worse still, Ten Hag has somehow managed all the above with the worlds most expensive football squad.

Without any doubt Ten Hag deserves to be sacked, but think INEOS will let him stay, for now.

Let's keep it real . There is absolutely zero comparison between Moyes taking over the serial champions and finishing 7th , to ten hags taking over a top 4 yo yo club that hadn't won a league for 10 years and managing it to 8th in an injury crippled 2nd season .

 

[Hal9000]

Are we waiting for Terzic? the Dortmund manager after the UCL final ?

He's been a Dortmund fan all his life and held a season ticket, came up the staff ranks at Dortmund and has he dream job. He's not coming here unless Dortmund sack him.

 

[Insanity]

This is a good point. It also feels weird to me that if there is a review ongoing he doesn’t seem to be part of it. Just read newd from Frankfurt who also had an underwhelming season and they just completed their seasob review, DOF and manager together and now came out with a statement that they agree on reasons why it wasn't a great season, agree on how to fix the mistakes next season and therefore go on together. Nothing like that appears to happen at United

You are right. It's surprising that a review of the season is being conducted without the main man responsible for the season a part of it. How can they come to any conclusions without his inputs and explanations?

I guess we'll find out soon enough. It's not a good look, though.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I just voted now, which is kind of chicken shit to vote at this point, I admit. Romantically I wanted McKenna, but I say keep him, his leash will obviously be short.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

I can give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to injuries as we seen the difference Martinez and Varane make and I can give him the benefit of the doubt that the experienced attacking players let him down so he has had to rely on young inconsistent forwards.

What I can’t forgive is the waste of money on average players and the fact we get walked through in midfield like an amateur side

Good thing Murtough's already been let go. Tend to agree about the tactics though, I have had a lot of time for EtH but the tactics have been too poor to ignore.

 

[Juice Juiced]

If it is Gareth lord of Boredom or EtH, It is Eric x1000 for me.

 

[Nicoseth]

The longer any announcement about his future is delayed, the more likely it is that he goes, imo. I have a feeling they're just waiting for the FA Cup excitement to die down to make the change. My money is on Tuchel as his replacement.

 

[Teja]

I just voted now, which is kind of chicken shit to vote at this point, I admit. Romantically I wanted McKenna, but I say keep him, his leash will obviously be short.

What's the point of that though - he's either the right guy or he isn't. If he's the right guy, just back him for another year. Otherwise sack now. What will they discover midway next season that they couldn't discover by watching old tapes?

I really can't take another season of interims and write-offs. They need to get this decision right.

 

[Nicoseth]

What's the point of that though - he's either the right guy or he isn't. If he's the right guy, just back him for another year. Otherwise sack now. What will they discover midway next season that they couldn't discover by watching old tapes?

I really can't take another season of interims and write-offs. They need to get this decision right.

Don't agree with that tbf. I think if he does stay, he probably won't have much room for error and sacking him mid-season is something INEOS would have to have a contingency plan for. ETH himself would know that if he does stay, he needs to have a good season. Having said all that, I still think he's getting sacked this summer.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

What's the point of that though - he's either the right guy or he isn't. If he's the right guy, just back him for another year. Otherwise sack now. What will they discover midway next season that they couldn't discover by watching old tapes?

I really can't take another season of interims and write-offs. They need to get this decision right.

Hard to argue with that. I just don't think the managers out there , are the 'right guy'. It's not a good situation for Ineos to get things rolling. I would have paid up to get McKenna and given him the keys, but what do I know? I'm just an old lacrosse player from the States

 

[Sarni]

Don't agree with that tbf. I think if he does stay, he probably won't have much room for error and sacking him mid-season is something INEOS would have to have a contingency plan for. ETH himself would know that if he does stay, he needs to have a good season. Having said all that, I still think he's getting sacked this summer.

I don’t think he’s getting sacked next season if he stays. If we persist with him it means we are ready to accept a season like this, and that we treat him as a long term option.

As I said before, I think the worst thing we could possibly do is keep him, refuse to get him his targets and the fire him mid-season because results aren’t right. Which is actually what many are suggesting (keep him, take him off transfers and then assess mid-season). If you keep him, you give him everything he needs and assure him of full job security.

 

[Sarni]

What's the point of that though - he's either the right guy or he isn't. If he's the right guy, just back him for another year. Otherwise sack now. What will they discover midway next season that they couldn't discover by watching old tapes?

I really can't take another season of interims and write-offs. They need to get this decision right.

Pretty much what I think. You don’t keep him as a trial, if you believe him to be the best manager to take United forward you have to support him heavily and ensure he has everything he needs to succeed, not have to worry about getting fired while trying to integrate players he’s not familiar with that he didn’t even ask for.

 

[Stig]

Love this! People are so impatient

Progress isn't linear.
( I read that yesterday. I thought it sounded clever.)

 

[hobbers]

Keeping him on a trial for a couple of months is by far the most idiotic conclusion anyone could come to. Pissing away another season because you're too weak to properly commit to a decision on him.

He's either good enough and deserves backing, whatever happens early in the season, or he isnt and you try someone better. It's not rocket science. But seems a majority of the keepers fall in that short term trial 'he deserves one last chance' camp.

 

[Blood Mage]

Keeping him on a trial for a couple of months is by far the most idiotic conclusion anyone could come to. Pissing away another season because you're too weak to properly commit to a decision on him.

He's either good enough and deserves backing, whatever happens early in the season, or he isnt and you try someone better. It's not rocket science. But seems a majority of the keepers fall in that short term trial 'he deserves one last chance' camp.

He will inevitably fail and these same prats will keep making excuses for him while throwing the players under the bus. We are wasting our time waiting for him to turn things around, it's not happening.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Are we waiting for Terzic? the Dortmund manager after the UCL final ?

It's Southgate we are waiting for. INEOS want a true blood British team

 

[frostbite]

He's been a Dortmund fan all his life and held a season ticket, came up the staff ranks at Dortmund and has he dream job. He's not coming here unless Dortmund sack him.

Or ... money.

 

[Wilt]

Let's keep it real . There is absolutely zero comparison between Moyes taking over the serial champions and finishing 7th , to ten hags taking over a top 4 yo yo club that hadn't won a league for 10 years and managing it to 8th in an injury crippled 2nd season .

Agree, but if people are going to quote Moyes….

Lets face it we’ve just had a shit awful season papered over with one of the biggest shock results in FA cup final history. (Utd were 7/1 to win)

How many injuries were there when Utd bombed out of the easiest CL group?

Utd have the one of biggest squads, if not the biggest. Injuries happen to all clubs. Which also brings into question as reported did some of the players even want to play for Ten Hag?

Delighted Ten Hag won 2 trophies but this season has been unforgivable.

INEOS have/are making a proper fecking mess of the whole situation, all this dithering it’s coming across as they don’t know wtf to do?

 

[spwd]

If he stays, here is the excuses list for next season:

- They took time to announce Erik is staying which hurt him.
- He was undermined in the transfer window and didn't get everyone he wanted.
- His agency not making millions in commissions has distressed Erik.
- With Frenkie de Jong we would've won the league.
- Only 600m! You need to spend more than a billion to make top 4 consistently.
- Let me show you how 600m is not 600m.
- X,Y or Z being injured for 5 games a season means 5th to 8th is acceptable. No team can compete with the likes of Bournemoth at home without a fit starting XI.
- If Rashford stays, he undermined Erik and is root of all evil. If he leaves, they didn't adequately replace him.
- Player X went to a club in city Y before a game. Erik is having to deal with adversity like no other manager ever.
- Maguire or any player remaining from before Erik means he is being undermined.
- 6th is progress. feck. you to the glory-hunters and to the knee-jerkers.
- Style of play, what style of play. We won two trophies in the previous two seasons.
- Europa League, which means Thursday-Sunday, is the reason for our under performance is the league.
- He took Ajax to a historic semi-final once. Patience is the key.

Any or all of them will be used at some point or the other.

I'm sure there's others too

 

[frostbite]

I'm sure there's others too

If they had bought Frenkie de Jong we'd challenge for 4th.
Why did INEOS not support the manager?

 

[croadyman]

It's Southgate we are waiting for. INEOS want a true blood British team

Please no that would be an abomination

 

[ArmaDino]

Agree, but if people are going to quote Moyes….

Lets face it we’ve just had a shit awful season papered over with one of the biggest shock results in FA cup final history. (Utd were 7/1 to win)

How many injuries were there when Utd bombed out of the easiest CL group?

Utd have the one of biggest squads, if not the biggest. Injuries happen to all clubs. Which also brings into question as reported did some of the players even want to play for Ten Hag?

Delighted Ten Hag won 2 trophies but this season has been unforgivable.

INEOS have/are making a proper fecking mess of the whole situation, all this dithering it’s coming across as they don’t know wtf to do?

Let'd draw some parallels to SAF's time for perspective:

The reason we bombed out of the group stage this year is because of Onana was a walking howler. He alone cost us at least 6 points with his mistakes. In before: ETH signed him. You are right, but even ETH couldn't have known that a keeper that reached the CL final would perform on a Football League 2 levels for the first 5 months of his time here. As a parallel, under SAF goalkeepers have cost us in Europe as well: Howard in that Porto tie and Caroll a year later against AC Milan, but I doubt anyone would blame SAF mediocre dross when higher caliber GK were available.

As for the defensive crisis: under SAF in his later years we had massive injuries in our defense. We had 2 of these epidemics, in 2010 and 2012. In both cases we ended up losing the league.

ETH still relies on 2 players to build from the back: Shaw and Martinez, both of which were injured for most of the season. As such we look like absolute chumps every time we try to play from the back. Other teams also struggled when their key players are missing: Liverpool went from title challenger the season before to barely scraped to Top4 that season VVD was injured.

So let's not pretend(City aside) that injuries don't affect other top teams. They do. As we've also seen, they affect the best managers out there as well.

I will concede however that one area that has me concerned is chance creation. Ajax under ETH was the most attacking team in the league. They scored goals for fun. So seeing us struggle create chances feels a bit weird tbh.

 

[stevoc]

Maybe blame is the wrong word to use. It seems that were both talking about who's responsible for our transfers.

I just disagree that EtH has been the main man behind our transfers. Clearly he identified some of the players but we've also signed players that it seems Murtough suggested like Casemiro and Hojlund.

If you agree that they both had a veto then surely they both can offer alternatives. I'd argue that it's more the responsibility of the DoF to provide alternatives and look long term at the squad, rather than the manager. EtH was so dependant on his agency and players he'd worked with before because its not his area of focus. The DoF should have a much larger network than that.

When you look at our transfers from 2022 to present then its obvious who the main driver in identifying players has been. If you told me Murtagh suggested Casemiro I wouldn't argue. But what makes you think he suggested Hojlund? Especially as you say ETH has relied on his agency, who I believe Hojlund is also with.

Malacia
Eriksen
Antony
Martinez
Casemiro
Sabitzer
Weghorst
Onana
Hojlund
Amrabat
Mount
Evans

I agree that a DOF should be driving and guiding the clubs transfer policy long term but we all know Murtagh wasn't much of a proper DOF in that sense, if at all. He was likely a token effort by the Glazers/Woodward, given the title to make it seem like the club was modernising while behind the scenes nothing much changed. In fact under Ten Hag things seem to have gone backwards on the modernisation front and the manager now appears to have had more power in identifying targets than even his predecessors did.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Well, either they are just undecided , or they are decided on letting him go and undecided about his replacement.

I think it's the former. I honestly think they're not sure what to do.

They really do need to hurry up though. Be decisive ffs. This is something the fans have felt United are not in years and you’d hope that ineos would be better at it.

it’s going to be a short summer especially with euros.

 

[E-mal]

What’s taking so long to make a decision? Surely this is incompetence!
And all those clamouring for us to keep him must remember Ole

 

[Wilt]

Let'd draw some parallels to SAF's time for perspective:

The reason we bombed out of the group stage this year is because of Onana was a walking howler. He alone cost us at least 6 points with his mistakes. In before: ETH signed him. You are right, but even ETH couldn't have known that a keeper that reached the CL final would perform on a Football League 2 levels for the first 5 months of his time here. As a parallel, under SAF goalkeepers have cost us in Europe as well: Howard in that Porto tie and Caroll a year later against AC Milan, but I doubt anyone would blame SAF mediocre dross when higher caliber GK were available.

As for the defensive crisis: under SAF in his later years we had massive injuries in our defense. We had 2 of these epidemics, in 2010 and 2012. In both cases we ended up losing the league.

ETH still relies on 2 players to build from the back: Shaw and Martinez, both of which were injured for most of the season. As such we look like absolute chumps every time we try to play from the back. Other teams also struggled when their key players are missing: Liverpool went from title challenger the season before to barely scraped to Top4 that season VVD was injured.

So let's not pretend(City aside) that injuries don't affect other top teams. They do. As we've also seen, they affect the best managers out there as well.

I will concede however that one area that has me concerned is chance creation. Ajax under ETH was the most attacking team in the league. They scored goals for fun. So seeing us struggle create chances feels a bit weird tbh.

Sick of hearing about injury excuses which never seem to get mentioned when Utd win.

The reason Ajax scored for fun is because (which ETH has discovered) is because the EPL is on a different planet when compared to Eredivisie.

 

[ArmaDino]

Sick of hearing about injury excuses which never seem to get mentioned when Utd win.

The reason Ajax scored for fun is because (which ETH has discovered) is because Eredivisie is on a different planet when compared to the EPL.

Well, how do you explain him drawing Bayern in the group stages twice, then putting 4 past Real at the Bernabeu, knocking Juve out on their home turf and being seconds away from a CL final. Are all them teams from the Eredevise as well?

 

[AneRu]

Because football is trajectory? Sir Alex 11th, 2nd, 12th, 13th. First 4 seasons.

More than thirty years ago, mate. Things have changed, under Sir Alex he couldn't sign players from all over the world, he didn't have half a billion to piss away, our academy wasn't producing generational players he had to build it and he was Sir Alex who had broken the big two hold on the Scottish title and the only guy to beat Madrid in a European final in over 30 years.

Liverpool had a well functioning system to support the manager, where they consistently managed to identify key players in key positions. It gives the manager a preferable foundation to build on, compared to the shitshow at Manchester United.

Well he demanded, as a condition before coming in, that he be the system and £400m later we now have worse issues than we had when he came in.

Not really. We'd still be 8th with negative goal difference, after spending 400 million.

A fact people like to conveniently gloss over.

I can give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to injuries as we seen the difference Martinez and Varane make and I can give him the benefit of the doubt that the experienced attacking players let him down so he has had to rely on young inconsistent forwards.

What I can’t forgive is the waste of money on average players and the fact we get walked through in midfield like an amateur side

Spot on and his accomplices in that triumvirate of mediocrity have been sacked why should he survive when he was the protagonist?

 

[Wilt]

Well, how do you explain him drawing Bayern in the group stages twice, then putting 4 past Real at the Bernabeu, knocking Juve out on their home turf and being seconds away from a CL final. Are all them teams from the Eredevise as well?

Why don’t you explain it?

 

[stevoc]

with more trophies

How exactly did Ten Hag manage 86 league games over 2 seasons when there are only 38 per season meaning 76 over two seasons?

75 points in 22-23 and 60 points in 23-24 gives Ten Hag 1.77 PPG not 1.95.

 

[stevoc]

You're a good poster so I'm just going to probe here - the insinuation is not that Eric Ten Hag is SAF. The insinuation is more that when a manager comes to United as a club specifically (where egos are big and pressure is even more so), and when they're in a mess, and needs a cultural, ego and systematic reset whilst making room for his own errors, there is likely to be vast volatility in initial league standings. Do you disagree with that sentiment?

And this scenario is completely unqiue to Manchester United, it wouldn't also be similar at a similar sized club like Liverpool?

 

[Uncle Mainoo]

How exactly did Ten Hag manage 86 league games over 2 seasons when there are only 38 per season meaning 76 over two seasons?

75 points in 22-23 and 60 points in 23-24 gives Ten Hag 1.77 PPG not 1.95.

Europa and UCL points clearly!!

I don’t know why people entertain these awful stat comparisons. Theres always caveats. I mean Arteta and Klopp didn’t have a full first season.

 

[stevoc]

Klopp, 8th, 4th, 4th, no trophies
Arteta 8th, 8th, 5th, FA cup title
ETH 3rd, 8th, League cup and FA cup titles.

Didn't Klopp get to the CL final in his 2nd season and won it in his 3rd while finishing 4th, 4th and 2nd in the league?

Or are you counting the half season when he took over for some reason?