Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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OverratedOpinion said:
I think the centre halves have very little to do with the lack of control we have had in games even against some of the worst sides on the league. The fact that Ten Hag decided a 1 man midfield was some sort of genius idea and was too stubborn to admit it was destroying our season was the cause.

I think there are a lot of coaches available who would have seen that being ridiculous and as such given us better results this season.
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Martinez is arguably the most crucial player on our team. Had he been available for the entire season, I believe we would have comfortably secured a top 4 finish.

I agree with your assessment of Ten Hag's approach; employing a 1 man midfield proved ineffective. However, I am confident that in the last few games he recognizes the improvement in our possession and control when operating with a double pivot. It's imperative for INEOS to prioritize the signing of Joao Neves this summer.
 
rimaldo said:
“why isn’t ten hag flexible? he should be able to change the way we play depending on who’s available and who we’re playing.”

and

“can’t believe ten hag changed the way he plays. weakness.”
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Or what has actually been said -

"Ten Hag changed the way he played and it brought him success when that play style is what he was brought in to change. That is somewhat ironic."
 
It was nice to see two players who EtH has trusted and developed greatly all season both getting on the scoresheet.

Mainoo and Garnacho have been big successes this season.
 
Nas-JR said:
When you want to use the words objectively, maybe try getting your facts straight first? We had more points than the Ragnick season, equal goals scored and one less goal conceded. In that season we had nothing to play for for the last 3 months and, most importantly, we didn't win a bloody fa cup! How on earth can you claim this season is worse! The agenda is mental!
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21/22 was the worst. 58 points, 0 GD, got out of both cups early and lost to Liverpool twice and heavily. Only good thing was passing group stage of CL and Ronaldo's goals saved us there + some luck vs Villarreal at Old Trafford as we were terrible.

This was really bad season but Fa Cup win makes it better than 21/22 and Moyes season. Possibly better than 15/16 and 18/19 as well.
 
pocco said:
Absolutely. Hailed as a tactical masterclass by his fans on here though. We were on our game no doubt, and we're both dogged and effective, but it was a simple tactic as old as time.

The funny thing was that in what is probably his last game, he got a win against City using the exact tactics he was brought in to phase out 2 years ago. Ultimately he has failed in what he was brought in to achieve, and today's game and recent games show that.
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And when he tried to change these tactics and stuck to his guns despite facing a mountain of injuries, he got bombarded with journalists, pundits and fans telling him he needs to change to a more pragmatic style. When he does and gets results he gets people like yourself making that final statement. It really is damned if you do damned if you don't.

We are as complicit in the shit show that is man united as anything from within the club with this 'grass is always greener' toxic attitude. No doubt in a couple years time you'll be hounding out the next manager who isn't given enough time to finish his project.
 
red.knight said:
Martinez is arguably the most crucial player on our team. Had he been available for the entire season, I believe we would have comfortably secured a top 4 finish.

I agree with your assessment of Ten Hag's approach; employing a 1 man midfield proved ineffective. However, I am confident that in the last few games he recognizes the improvement in our possession and control when operating with a double pivot. It's imperative for INEOS to prioritize the signing of Joao Neves this summer.
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Martinez is brilliant but if us not being embarrassing to watch most weeks of the season ultimately depends on the fitness of 1 injury prone player then Erik's planning has been a bit off.

Being that blind or stubborn to the horrendous effects of a blatantly obvious tactical mistake until a couple of weeks ago sets off alarm bells about his ability to do this job. Does it not for you?

(Ultimately none of us make the choice so if he fixes his obvious mistakes and suddenly gets us playing well then great. I'd be delighted and bake him a cake. I doubt it though)
 
Ubik said:
Well, we did finish a couple of places lower, and our league position was pretty flattering on how we actually played.

The cup win makes it a better season overall though, yeah.
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I'd also like to add that, while in absolute terms moyes wasn't a worse season, relative to the previous season it absolutely is in my eyes. Moyes took the champions of England to 7th and that's with giggs getting us enough points for that 7th place in the last month of the season!
 
OverratedOpinion said:
What is your stance? Because 3 and a half decades ago the most special man to ever grace our club did something incredible we should completely stagnate and never act on clear and obvious indicators that someone is the wrong man for the job?
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It's got absolutely zero to do with it being 35 years ago .

In your words , ' 'the greatest manager did something incredible' ...

I agree , he took over a club that had not won a league for 19 years , it took him 4 years to win 1 cup and a further 3 to win the league after taking over a side that had not finished below 4th and won 2 fa cups .

Ten hag took over a club almost 10 years without a league , no cups for 4 years and a bit of a champions League yo yo club .
Not that dissimilar really .

If the greatest manager took so long to build a team and start winning . I'm genuinely interested to hear how long you expect lesser managers to take ?
 
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He's too inconsistent for me.

I understand it's a rebuilding project and that causes me to want to give him some leeway, but we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory far too often this year.
 
Nas-JR said:
And when he tried to change these tactics and stuck to his guns despite facing a mountain of injuries, he got bombarded with journalists, pundits and fans telling him he needs to change to a more pragmatic style. When he does and gets results he gets people like yourself making that final statement. It really is damned if you do damned if you don't.

We are as complicit in the shit show that is man united as anything from within the club with this 'grass is always greener' toxic attitude. No doubt in a couple years time you'll be hounding out the next manager who isn't given enough time to finish his project.
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My point was a bit tongue in cheek, but I don't think I've seen anybody criticise him for being pragmatic, people were calling for it months ago. We obviously can't play every game like today and park the bus, but there was a middle ground that everybody was hoping for. He ultimately couldn't find it and we have had a disaster of a season as a result. There's no point sticking to your guns and playing how you think we should play, but every game come out and say it won't work with the players available, like he has done all season. It's just stupid.

But even with the defensive issues, there's been no excuse for our woes up front either. We've got some good players to choose from, perhaps the most creative player in world football who played practically every game, and yet look at the result. It's just been a shit show all around and there's no getting away from it, no matter how many excuses people wanted to reel off on a game by game basis.
 
bosnian_red said:
Yes. He won 2 trophies in 2 seasons and this season, yes the league campaign was awful, he did a shit job with his hands tied behind his back, but you have to give the benefit of doubt here, given that he got us over the line in the cup, and the squad is clearly all for him. He has earned himself the chance to turn it around and fix the problems.

Sacking him now after this is just the wrong decision.
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I just think making a decision off of the result of a single game is a terrible way to go about the process of rebuilding this club, and given the lack of quality performances in the last 16 months or so of football I don't think Ten Hag HAS earned that benefit of the doubt. He had all season to try and tinker and "fix the problems" and instead it took him until the season was over to try a different approach tactically to matches. Again as I've said before, if there had been spurts of excellent football/performances when more players were fit then I'd also be inclined as you are to keep him on and give him another year. But that just wasn't the case, no matter if we had a mostly fit side or were throwing out scraps in a starting XI, and there was never really an attempt to change that. Couple that with what seems like pretty dubious talent ID and in game management and I just don't think the body of work is worth keeping on, as thankful as I am about today's brilliant result.
 
BTG said:
He's too inconsistent for me.

I understand it's a rebuilding project and that causes me to want to give him some leeway, but we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory far too often this year.
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It's all built on a poor foundation of not being a particularly well coached team. Even last season we only played well for 3 months.
 
he’ll still be there to be sacked tomorrow. just enjoy the win, you plebs.
 
pocco said:
Yeah against a team that went unbeaten all season, nobody was beating them. You have every excuse under the sun for a manager that finishes 8th, plays crap football, -1 GD, bottom of a weak CL group (a group win by the "bed wetter"). All while spending £400m for the privilege. And yet you come out with guff like that and ignore all context. Your opinion is worthless.
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:lol: you compare resources of Ten hag to the rest of the team and talk bollocks about how it's OK for Tuchel team to bottle every cup to a team with fractional resources. Did you even watch how he scraped Bundasliga last year and got knocked out by shit teams in the cup? And this year? No. I bet you didn't.

Your opinion is worthless mate. Hypocrisy is hilarious.
 
stevoc said:
Ten Hag is one of the top 5 highest paid managers on the planet.

Outside of Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti and a few others virtually every manager is available to United when you're offering them a £9m per year salary.

How do you think we got Ten Hag? Was he availalable 2 years ago?
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stevoc said:
Ten Hag is one of the top 5 highest paid managers on the planet.

Outside of Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti and a few others virtually every manager is available to United when you're offering them a £9m per year salary.

How do you think we got Ten Hag? Was he availalable 2 years ago?
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I respectfully disagree with your statement. Unless you're suggesting that every average manager is up for consideration, I doubt that the top managers currently available would be open to joining United if we were to pursue them at this time.

Pep X
Klopp X
Ancelotti X
Diego Simone X
Luis Enerique X
Alonso X
Emery X
Arteta X
Inzaghi X
Nagelsman X
 
BorisManUtd said:
21/22 was the worst. 58 points, 0 GD, got out of both cups early and lost to Liverpool twice and heavily. Only good thing was passing group stage of CL and Ronaldo's goals saved us there + some luck vs Villarreal at Old Trafford as we were terrible.

This was really bad season but Fa Cup win makes it better than 21/22 and Moyes season. Possibly better than 15/16 and 18/19 as well.
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I had a huge soft spot for lvg as I really wanted us to play a dominant footballing style but that season was torture. 49 goals scored! That season was most boring. The mourinho season was most toxic the club has felt (although the ragnick one comes close) and this year is the most heartburn inducing season.
 
Kirk lazarus said:
It's got absolutely zero to do with it being 35 years ago .

In your words , ' 'the greatest manager did something incredible' ...

I agree , he took over a club that had not won a league for 19 years , it took him 4 years to win 1 cup and a further 3 to win the league after taking over a side that had not finished below 4th and won 2 fa cups .

Ten hag took over a club almost 10 years without a league , no cups for 4 years and a bit of a champions League yo yo club .
Not that dissimilar really .

If the greatest manager took so long to build a team and start winning . I'm genuinely interested to hear how long you expect lesser managers to take .
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I expect a manager I rate to get us looking like a half decent team more weeks than we don't. Especially after 2 years and half a billion.
 
VP89 said:
:lol: you compare resources of Ten hag to the rest of the team and talk bollocks about how it's OK for a team Tuchel to bottle every cup to a team with fractional resources.

Your opinion is worthless mate. Hypocrisy is hilarious.
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I don't really follow your gibberish but from what I could take out of all of that, you say he bottled every cup, but he reached a CL Final, no? OK pal. I'm getting dragged into one of your mundane fecking daft arguments when all I have to do is point to the CV of Tuchel and ask you to tell me how he is not a proven better coach? You tell me what makes ETH better than Tuchel...

Talking of resources, where were Chelsea when he took over? How much did he spent to transform them into CL winners?
 
golden_blunder said:
Oleball wins against City. Ole had their number
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But it doesn't win the league. Or even get you top four against the current crop. And it's embarrassing against Brentford at home. It's outdated. I want more than fluking the FA Cup.
 
pratyush_utd said:
It’s funny how people who want ETH gone cant accept that at the moment, managers who are available are not that impressive. ETH had more stock than most who are available 2 years back. United has chewed up Jose and LVG, so its not like ETH is the first manager who has issues despite being successful elsewhere.
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I accept it 100%, personally
 
pocco said:
I don't really follow your gibberish but from what I could take out of all of that, you say he bottled every cup, but he reached a CL Final, no? OK pal. I'm getting dragged into one of your mundane fecking daft arguments when all I have to do is point to the CV of Tuchel and ask you to tell me how he is not a proven better coach? You tell me what makes ETH better than Tuchel...

Talking of resources, where were Chelsea when he took over? How much did he spent to transform them into CL winners?
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Moving goalposts, I see. Di Matteo won a CL too, but that's besides the point I made.

Tuchel wet the bed with Bayern. This is an objective statement by the way if you bothered to see the domestic cup exits, the way he scraped the league (it was out of his hands and he was fortunate dortmund fecked it) and this seasons implosion.

Arguing otherwise is stone cold nonsense.

And this evaluation of worry is before we consider how he implodes every two seasons.
 
Nas-JR said:
He's answered this question time and again. He didn't want to change his tactics from how he wants us to play because going defensive then it not working would be extremely demoralising for players and fans alike. He also gambled that sooner or later players will come back and we'd be better positioned for that style of play with his preferred personnel rather than switch styles and formations all the time.

When he says comprise, I imagine he means compromise with the personnel who cannot play this way (maguire, lindelof, Evans, varane unable to play a high line) or personnel out of position (amrabat, awb dalot ar lb, casimero at cb, rashford up top).

This statement about being About to implement his own style regardless of personnel, do you honestly believe that? Do you believe Guardiola can come in and implement how he's playing right now with the personnel that have been readily avaliable this year (your awbs, maguires, Evans, lindelofs, casemiros of the footballing world)?
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Surely capitulating against lower quality opposition again and again via the exact same tactical failings was far more demoralizing for our players and fans than simply adjusting our tactics based on our available players!?

It’s literally the manager’s job to switch styles and formations and tactics based on what he sees on the pitch over the course of a game, and over the course of the season. If he can’t do that effectively, what is he even there for?

If everyone else can see that plan A isn’t working and is tanking our whole season, why couldn’t Ten Hag? Why did he suddenly only seem to see the need for change when his job and a cup was on the line? Was our league campaign not worthy of that? Did he not realize how missing out on CL qualification would hinder our ability to rebuild due to the financial realities we face? If he only thinks success can come from one rigid style of play that he refuses to change no matter what our player availability is, then I can’t see how he will ever be a truly successful manager for us.

And of course Guardiola wouldn’t implement how he’s playing now with City with an inferior set of players like ours. But that’s a total red herring because I firmly believe Guardiola would have done something that Ten Hag was unable to I.E. come up with an effective system that made the most of the players actually at his disposal. Do you honestly think Guardiola would have persisted with a set up as open and exposed and as lacking in control as ours was this season?
 
If he does stay and manage to turn things around though, this is the game we'll all look back to
 
It's not an easy call for sure. 2 trophies and 3 domestic finals in 2 seasons is something we'd taken without any doubt back in 2022 when we were 5 years without a trophy and desperate. Then there were all the injuries and particularly in defence and today with Martinez and Varane back showed how much ten Hag has missed them.

Potential sacking could be regarded as harsh. But same would've been said for sacking of Mourinho if it happened in summer of 2018 or Ole in 2021 after EL final.
Nas-JR said:
I had a huge soft spot for lvg as I really wanted us to play a dominant footballing style but that season was torture. 49 goals scored! That season was most boring. The mourinho season was most toxic the club has felt (although the ragnick one comes close) and this year is the most heartburn inducing season.
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Think LvG did the worst job. 2014/15 we had no Europe to play and finished 4th which was basically good enough but nothing more than that though we spent a lot in summer of 2014. Then 2015/16 was the one where all the big sides were in some kind of transition and we finished 5th behind City because of bad GD. I'm grateful for Fa Cup win as 1st trophy post-Fergie but our route to it wasn't that difficult (like it was this year).
 
Mr Ego continues to unleash his wrath after saying he will win elsewhere. Mr Ego has already fallen out with Sancho, C. Ronaldo, De Gea, Martial and more.
 
red.knight said:
I respectfully disagree with your statement. Unless you're suggesting that every average manager is up for consideration, I doubt that the top managers currently available would be open to joining United if we were to pursue them at this time.

Pep X
Klopp X
Ancelotti X
Diego Simone X
Luis Enerique X
Alonso X
Emery X
Arteta X
Inzaghi X
Nagelsman X
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You respectfully disagree then basically repeat what I said, interesting.

You do know there are more than 10 managers in the world yes? Are you suggesting everyone one of them outside that list of 10 names is average?

Did you think the likes of Emery or Alonso were one of the top 10 coaches in the world 12 months ago?

stevoc said:
Ten Hag is one of the top 5 highest paid managers on the planet.

Outside of Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti and a few others virtually every manager is available to United when you're offering them a £9m per year salary.

How do you think we got Ten Hag? Was he availalable 2 years ago?
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BorisManUtd said:
It's not an easy call for sure. 2 trophies and 3 domestic finals in 2 seasons is something we'd taken without any doubt back in 2022 when we were 5 years without a trophy and desperate. Then there were all the injuries and particularly in defence and today with Martinez and Varane back showed how much ten Hag has missed them.
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I would have taken this sure but it also would have come with the requirement that after 2 years we need to look like there is a logical plan and style of play that gets us back to being regular challengers for the Premier League titles.

As long as that was there I would have forgone any cups in this spell as that was the main priority by an absolute mile.

It still is. Remember when we would all roundly mock Arsenal for being a side that got top 4 every season and won an FA Cup every couple of years? We are halfway to that currently just playing far worse football and spending a lot more.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
I would have taken this sure but it also would have come with the requirement that after 2 years we need to look like there is a logical plan and style of play that gets us back to being regular challengers for the Premier League titles.

As long as that was there I would have forgone any cups in this spell as that was the main priority by an absolute mile.
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Perhaps 2018-2022 trophyless period under Ole made us desperate for days like today was. Of course it shouldn't make us forget we finished 8th with -1 GD.
 
rimaldo said:
he’ll still be there to be sacked tomorrow. just enjoy the win, you plebs.
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I was just gonna say this but in a more polite way :lol:

I get that we're all still pretty split on ten Hag, but we shouldn't be arguing and insulting each other! We've just done what seemed like the impossible and beat City (deservedly so) in an FA Cup final! Let's celebrate together as a fan base. We've done enough arguing this season to last another ten seasons and there will be plenty of time for more.

I guess to each their own, though. I get debating the situation but there's no need for the insults. At the end of the day, all everyone wants when debating here is what's best for United. We're all in the same boat.
 
VP89 said:
Tuchel wet the bed with Bayern. This is an objective statement by the way if you bothered to see the domestic cup exits, the way he scraped the league (it was out of his hands and he was fortunate dortmund fecked it) and this seasons implosion.

Arguing otherwise is stone cold nonsense.
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Ten Hag wet the bed with Utd. This is an objective statement by the way if you bothered to see the bottom-of-the-table CL exit, the way he scraped to an 8th place league finish with a negative goal difference, and this season’s implosion in terms of performances.

Arguing otherwise is stone cold nonsense.
 
Are we just that? A cups winner, beating several non-EPL teams along the way? We know this team shows up for big games - especially against Liverpool and City - doesn't matter if league or cup.

Now look at the league table the last 2 years - not just the position and points but the GD - look at the teams around Utd! Then if you want, dive deeper into the stats. Did you all even watch this season's league games?

Now look at the CL table. Is that acceptable?

Mental that you all want one more season because of vibes from winning a cup.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day - what about the rest of the time?
 
Zumbi said:
Ten Hag wet the bed with Utd. This is an objective statement by the way if you bothered to see the bottom-of-the-table CL exit, the way he scraped to an 8th place league finish with a negative goal difference, and this season’s implosion in terms of performances.

Arguing otherwise is stone cold nonsense.
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Two cups in two years. Not a patch on injuries compared to tuchel.

Hilarious parallel drawn. If a manager at his worst can win an FA cup beating a City side unbeaten for 13 games in the final after putting Liverpool aside too, sign me the feck up to see what he can do at his best.
 
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