Same old self serving shite he's been coming out with for months. Can't believe anyone sympathises with the bald Mourinho
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Which top club is more patient? Most have gone through about the same, if not more, managers than we have despite being much more successful during the same time period.
It's not about having standards living in the gutter. The manager literally said this season was crap. Those were his standards. But he said a wider problem with the job is how people expect to win many games even though the squad is miles off - and that's something that has to be recognized.
It's less about that and more about which clubs are actually better run. A shitshow club needs to recognize that managers in their job will need more time to unpick the issues and have room for their own mistakes in the process, relative to a club that's well run.
Arsenal weren't even run as badly as us and displayed more patience to a novice, unproven manager who didn't show what his style was about in season 3 (and even then he finished outside of the CL places).
I actually think we give our managers more time than any other big club would when taking their performances into account. I mean, can we say any of them have proved us wrong since leaving? Personally, I can't say any of them have made me regret wanting them replaced.
I don't think the sacking themselves have been the problem. It's the replacements where we have had to start from scratch all over again because we kept appointing managers with different styles. José has been our best manager post Fergie, but I think his appointment also set us back long term as we needed a manager to build on what van Gaal was trying to implement. Football where we try to play on the front foot.
If you don't mind me asking, are you back to being ten Hag in? I assumed so based on your reply but I could be wrong!
No big club is run as badly as we are, so it's not right to really compare - but Arsenal are run better and showed more patience.
Also we didn't exactly prove these managers wrong after sacking them. We ended up rage quitting on their replacements a couple years later all the same.
I preferred Ten Hag to stay but could understand both reasonings. Generally indifferent but the way its been leaked now has left me feeling bitter about the situation.
He's not entirely wrong. The only thing you can really fault with what he says here is that other clubs had a much better squad - if he's talking about City, Liverpool and Arse fair enough but he's spent an absurd amount of money on mostly crap so he cannot use this as an excuse.
The squad isn’t miles of champions league places
The squad was more than good enough to not finish last in that CL group
I have little sympathy left for a manager who has,
1. Spent 400m over 2 windows with no progress to show for it.
2. Is too stubborn to change tactics mid game when they clearly don't work.
3. Has instilled a culture of sickness and injury across the squad.
4. Has finished the season in our worst league position ever.
His first season was simply the new manager bounce effect. He has been truly found out this year.
Careful, you’ll upset folks
I am sorry but the manager is supposed to inspire the players & the fanbase and this guy is the most boring & insipid manager we have ever had. He knows he is gone and he is trying to protect himself. He has been here for 2 years, spent a good amount of money and yet he has said today (also 3 weeks back) that if we get the right players in the summer we can aim for top 4 again. Feck him
- Erik ten Hag to @VI_nl: “We need to sign an extra striker in the summer. And if we can sign another central midfielder and a replacement for Varane, things will look good again. If the team remains fit we can try and aim for top 4 again.”
Weird isn't it? I agree that he's got to go but also quite liked him as a person, from what we saw of him.
There's no such thing as 'dead certain' on the next manager. Not unless you are getting Pep or Klopp, which we obviously aren't. Every other manager in the world has question marks over them in some shape or form. Obviously some have more question marks than others, but ETH has already answered many of those questions to the negative.
Out of our previous managers, LVG is the only one who has any kind of base to say that they might have done better with more time. He was the only one who actually set in place a system that might have led to success. Even then, it's highly unlikely that he himself would been able to do that, and we would have needed to sack him and bring in somebody else who played a more aggressive, attacking version of his football to start moving the right way. Instead we went pretty much as opposite to that as possible and wasted any potential good that came from his time here.
Moyes clearly wasn't taking us anywhere. Mourinho clearly wasn't. Ole clearly wasn't. And now ETH clearly isn't. All of them left almost nothing that the next manager can build on in our attempt to get back to the top. Dalot is virtually the only thing that ETH can point to in terms of coaching players the right way, and giving Mainoo and Garnacho a lot of games (too many to be honest) as well. Otherwise, there's nothing.
Man wasted £250m on Mount, Onana, Casemiro (who we now need to replace urgently and expensively) and Antony. Onana is a waste because DDG was still serviceable and we had other priorities like CB and back up DM. Obviously points to a deeper malaise that we didn't have better targets but still the point remains this season was lost in the two preceding summers.
Sorry but just no
That's what people always ignore. We know a significant amount of the players that Mourinho wanted to bring in, and other than maybe Perisic they would have all been a waste of money.
City sorted out their back room and got a best in class structure in place before Pep, obviously he helped take them to another level. Madrid goes without saying. Arsenal sorted out their structure and recruitment woes when Edu came in amongst other changes.
You naming some very good coaches is not a defence for keeping Ten Hag, it anything it’s a defence for getting rid of him. I think having a good coach who is performing well is important and if they aren’t performing well you should be able to replace them without too much disruption. This is why it’s important that the coach be a cog in a well oiled machine, even if they are the best cog in the world.
If you are overly reliant on having a once in a generation, elite manager then you leave yourself extremely vulnerable to things falling apart disastrously when the person you put your faith in is not good enough. Which is exactly what keeps happening to us since our last once in a lifetime manager retired. Deciding that the solution is to just keep the person who is clearly not good enough, is totally the wrong lesson to learn.
Now to caveat that, when I say good enough, I mean properly good enough here are United. Sometimes things just don’t work out for whatever reason. Good coach/not good coach is not a static thing, we are people and we’re always changing and different environments and circumstances affect things. That’s why you can make fine decisions (like taking a gamble on ETH in the first place) but they still don’t work. The important thing is to be able to judge when to make a change and not linger too long, again which we have kept doing. We need to keep trying coaches until we get one who is really good and who makes it work here.
We have had cup runs under each and every permanent managers of ours. It's not as great a achievement as ETH is projecting.
Under Moyes' shitty season we made the semi-final of the Carling cup and Quarter final of the Champions league.
Under LVG's two seasons - We finished 4th in season 1 and in the second season were 5th on goal difference & won the FA cup.
Under Jose's two full seasons - In the first we won the League cup and the Europa league and in the second season we came 2nd and made it to the final of the FA cup.
Under Ole's two full seasons - We came 3rd the first season and made it to the semi-final of the Carling cup, FA cup and the Europa league. In this 2nd season we finished 2nd and made it to the final of the Europa league & semi-final of the league cup.
ETH and his fans would have you believe that we are lying at the bottom of the ditch before he took over. We have had plenty of cup runs and cup wins in the last eleven seasons. All of them, except Moyes, got to spend a lot of cash and had cup runs. They all got fired because we couldn't make a mark in the league or the champions league under them. ETH is even worse as this season we had our worst performance in the league and the CL since Sir Alex left.
We’re done with your excuses. You’ve been found out as painfully out of your depth and either not willing, or not capable of fixing key structural issues on the pitch that have been there from the very first game of the season.
This guy is even more dislikable than Jose. At least Jose doesn’t try to hide it. Ten Hag is full of self-serving bullshit who deflects even the slightest whiff of criticism onto anyone but himself.
A lot of these players are arseholes, but imagine having to go out on that pitch every week knowing you’ve been set up to fail with a suicidal tactical set up. And when it inevitably fails, you’ll be the ones to blame as the charisma vacuum sat in the dug out throws everyone else under the bus.
Casemiro (who needs to go) is a perfect example. One of the best defensive midfielders of his generation who has won the lot. And we’re expected to believe the reason he suddenly finds himself deep in the opposition half 30 yards on the wrong side of the ball is because he’s suddenly gone rogue after all these years?
Should have been sacked after that embarrassment of a Champions League group, but better late than never.
It's not just about immediate results, although it is the most important. The club also has to judge the manager on what he's doing that will benefit the club over the next couple of years. Arsenal obviously thought Emery was failing there so they sacked him, but thought Arteta was doing well so they gave him more time. Time has proven that they were probably right.
Looking back we know none of our managers (with the possible small exception to LVG) were doing things that were going to stand the club in good stead in the future. Based on everything we've seen this season it's also very unlikely that ETH has been either. The one and only way he should still be here next season is if the new structure came in and looked at the stuff behind the scenes (that we don't see) and thought he actually was doing good things that will come to fruition soon. If we sack him they obviously didn't think that he was showing those things, and it'd be incompetence of the highest order to allow him to stay here if he wasn't.
Probably said that day 1 Eric then realised after 6 months that you’re tactically inept
That's nonsense. I wasn't all that impressed with the football we played but as far as results went it was quite universally accepted that we had a decent season and there was a platform to kick on from.
But I disagree on ten hag. It's not nearly as clear with him, he's dealt a very bad hand and he's made his own big mistakes, in spite of which he has 3 finals in 2 seasons. We havent seen his ceiling really. Granted we did with Ole and Moyes. And arguably Jose too.
Perfectly said.
WOW! imagine if he's sacked post-game with this story coming out? The press conference is going to be insane.
Personally for me I dont want anotherrrrr manager getting 300m to spend and need time to build his team.
Whilst ETH hasnt had a great season, I have liked how he had to deal with the following and believe he should get another season.
- Maguire captaincy
- Greenwood drama
- Antony drama
- Rashford on the piss
- Ronaldo Piers interview
- Sancho drama
I like how he handled them all other than Ronaldo.
Does anybody know if ETH actually wanted to sign Mount?
Anyway, I also do not feel like another new manager will do any better with this group of players with the injuries we have also had.
Anyway, who cares what we think. A trophy today would be nice.
Whilst ETH hasnt had a great season, I have liked how he had to deal with the following and believe he should get another season.
- Maguire captaincy
- Greenwood drama
- Antony drama
- Rashford on the piss
- Ronaldo Piers interview
- Sancho drama
I like how he handled them all other than Ronaldo.
Does anybody know if ETH actually wanted to sign Mount?
Anyway, I also do not feel like another new manager will do any better with this group of players with the injuries we have also had.
Anyway, who cares what we think. A trophy today would be nice.
Ole got to a bunch of semi and finals as well, despite having what I'm pretty sure was much harder runs than the relatively easy cup runs that ETH has had.
I do think it's clear with ETH. It's unfortunate because I had more hope with him than any previous manager, but almost everything he's implemented this season goes against what any top team should be building towards. Hell, even mid-table and relegation-battling teams are trying to dominate possession, control tempo and play compactly these days (which is why those struggling teams have been able to enforce their will on us this season instead of the other way around). Ignore the results this season; our actual performances have never been worse.
I agree that we’ve wasted money but just saying “we wasted 300/400 million” doesn’t tell the whole truth.
Players are so expensive now. £400 million gets you what? 4/5 good players?
Players are so expensive now. £400 million gets you what? 4/5 good players?
Yes, it was reported that he was his no.1 target. His injuries meant we never really got to see it happen but a midfield trio of Casemiro, Mount and Bruno was his plan.
Okay but can we sack this one who we know is shit?
Beyond embarrassing. I can’t believe our manager has done an exclusive interview justifying why he’s so shite hours before a final.
He should have gone after the CL debacle. We keep underperforming staff around for too long in the hope they can turn it around. They never do
Exactly. We are the slowest club of all big teams (including the other top five leagues) to sack managers. I don’t know how anyone can actually say we sack managers too soon, it’s been the opposite for every manager we’ve had post-SAF!
4 players would be 100 million per player. There’s still only been a few 100 million transfers. With a decent strike rate 400 million should get you probably 7 good players at least. Two or three big money successes and a number of sub 40 million successes along with a couple of duds.
It'd actually be interesting to hear Arsenal fans weigh in on this because, before they got their act together, I feel like they would've said they were run as poorly as us. I think the biggest difference was Edu being in charge of their recruitment. Since they brought him on, they've been great at identifying press resistant players that have took the club up several levels. Even ones that didn't work out like Ceballos showed they were looking at the right attributes.
As for your reply about ten Hag, that's understandable. Regardless of whether any of us were in or out, I think all of us were unhappy with the leak.
But Arsenal were not seeing any progress post Emery (apart from conceding less) for 1.5 seasons, and huge portions were Arteta out up until the season he finished 5th. They stuck by him when he was showing more failure than Eric Ten Hag and the rest is history.
The narrative by some fans here is Arteta deserved time because it was his first job (bit of a weird narrative, because if anything that's a reason to sack him since he was showing he wasn't ready until much later). In any case, Ten Hag doesnt have nearly the same margin for error.
Arsenal sentiment was loud and clear after they finished 8th for a second time. They were only appeased after he finished 5th (again, out of the CL).
Sounds kneejerk. Onana made some howlers and Rashford got a red that was never a red. Yes we were far too open and thats on Ten Hag, he could and should have navigated those games better than he did. But he should be allowed to make his own mistakes as he adapts to a squad that needs a ton of fixing, and as they adapt to him.
Same. They come in, give him confidence but later find out "...Wow, he's shit".
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