Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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red_de_pologne said:
Majority of fans do, this forum is on a level of Facebook groups nowadays. A poll of 1500 people? Actual, relevant polls, you know with 10k+ votes, indicate 70% of fans understand what’s needed for this club to change, and it’s not sacking a manager every 18 months.
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The change needed is totally adapting to a modern structure where a head coach is a cog in the wheel and not the be all and end all of the club. This is what INEOS know and what they are doing.
 
Dazzmondo said:
I think this is a good and realistic shortlist. My preference would probably be 1. Tuchel, 2. Poch, 3. McKenna, 4. Frank, but I see upside for all of them. The latter 2 carry a lot more risk imo.
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That would be my order as well, still wouldn't rule out De Zerbi as a contender for the job too
 
astracrazy said:
What a ridiculous perspective.
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What's ridiculous about it? It's clearly true.

All the managers we signed were failures here, and none of them went on to prove that they would have been successful even under a better structure.

Even before we signed them, there's a reason that no other big club was interested in Moyes, no other big club was interested in LVG at that time, no other big club was interested in Mourinho at that time, no other big club was interested in Ole, and even with ETH (the only manager who an argument could be made was of the right profile) there was no other big club who was interested (even Spurs declined him 12 months earlier because they thought he wouldn't work).

As a club we've got almost all important decisions wrong since Ferguson retired. And that includes hiring the wrong managers, and also includes giving most of them too much time.
 
red_de_pologne said:
Majority of fans do, this forum is on a level of Facebook groups nowadays. A poll of 1500 people? Actual, relevant polls, you know with 10k+ votes, indicate 70% of fans understand what’s needed for this club to change, and it’s not sacking a manager every 18 months.
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I wholeheartedly disagree. Erik ten Hag is one of the clubs biggest problems.
 
justboy68 said:
The change needed is totally adapting to a modern structure where a head coach is a cog in the wheel and not the be all and end all of the club. This is what INEOS know and what they are doing.
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Tell me at which of current top, best achieving clubs that is the structure? Is Pep a cog in the wheel? Ancelotti? Klopp? Arteta? No, they are all highly influential, hands on managers.
 
red_de_pologne said:
Totally fine, was just saying 70% of United supporters would start the changes elsewhere
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I think we all would in regards to the Glazers. I just think, for me and I guess the other 30%, that doesn't excuse ten Hag, though. He should go regardless because his tactics have just not been good enough.

Like van Gaal, we'd all love him to go out on a high despite wanting a replacement later on today.
 
United in all honesty are one of the most patient clubs with managers. I genuinely believe that if Ten Hag had done the bare minimum this season then looking at all the changes around the club most fans would have wanted him to stay and try to build something. I am sure he is a good manager because you don’t get to this level without being a top mind but he has completely failed at United this season. Injuries or no injuries but there is absolutely no excuse for the level we saw on the pitch this season and that level meant that he just has to go.
 
Yagami said:
I think we all would in regards to the Glazers. I just think, for me and I guess the other 30%, that doesn't excuse ten Hag, though. He should go regardless because his tactics have just not been good enough.

Like van Gaal, we'd all love him to go out on a high despite wanting a replacement later on today.
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It doesn't sit right with me at all, we drop managers too easily.
 
red_de_pologne said:
Totally fine, was just saying 70% of United supporters would start the changes elsewhere
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But the changes have started elsewhere.

And it seems as though the peoole who have joined the club based on those changes are now thinking that a managetiar change is also required.
 
Not only is this our worst season, the worrying underlying stats show that we are lucky to even be 8th.

No way a competent board looks at that and lets it continue another year.
 
VP89 said:
It doesn't sit right with me at all, we drop managers too easily.
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Ten Hag is the only one who can be argued is unlucky, due to all the injuries and unrest at the club. Who else got dropped too easily?

If anything I think we’ve acted too slowly often. That’s how bad our managers have done.
 
VP89 said:
It doesn't sit right with me at all, we drop managers too easily.
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We do? Look around. No other big club sticks with managers for as long as we do. And the way we do things hasn't exactly been working for the last 11 years.

I'm not saying replacing managers sooner would have brought us to where we want to be since 2013, as we clearly also had problems elsewhere, but giving managers more time would not have solved anything either.
 
Judas said:
Ten Hag is the only one who can be argued is unlucky, due to all the injuries and unrest at the club. Who else got dropped too easily?
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Both LVG and Jose were dropped while they were cementing either a style or play or a winning mentality because the players felt cold toward the manager.

They may not have necessarily been the right appointments at the time but a lot of investment had been made in their methods and the club did a U Turn to start again at weird moments. LVG when he won a cup and finished 5th (not exactly a capitulation) and Jose was left in the cold from the start of the transfer window after he finished 2nd with 81 points.

It seems the club simply have a history of cold feet when the going really gets tough. They have changed in the hope for a less turbulent ride with the next coach, but find themselves in the same position anywhere between 18 month and 2 years later irrespective of the style of manager they go for.
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
Tuchel
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Would his football style be the one we want to play long term? So that when he goes we look for a manager with very similar style to match the players that fit his system so well?
Or is it a case of whoevers available that can pick us up a trophy or two?
 
Amir said:
We do? Look around. No other big club sticks with managers for as long as we do. And the way we do things hasn't exactly been working for the last 11 years.

I'm not saying replacing managers sooner would have brought us to where we want to be since 2013, as we clearly also had problems elsewhere, but giving managers more time would not have solved anything either.
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No other big clubs is remotely the mess of a club we are. I can't think of a single big club that's run worse than Manchester United, apart from Chelsea in the last 18 months and that's not a benchmark we aspire to be.
 
Judas said:
Ten Hag is the only one who can be argued is unlucky, due to all the injuries and unrest at the club. Who else got dropped too easily?

If anything I think we’ve acted too slowly often. That’s how bad our managers have done.
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Unlucky? A manager who spends 400 million on his former players and leaves you in a worse state than you were before, while earning millions in the process? I think he was very lucky! Not good at his job, but very lucky!
 
frostbite said:
Unlucky? A manager who spends 400 million on his former players and leaves you in a worse state than you were before, while earning millions in the process? I think he was very lucky! Not good at his job, but very lucky!
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HE didn't spend £400m. Murtough did. and HE didn't get much if any at all by way of alternatives from the club. Go figure.
 
Reading some new quotes from him this morning and tell me please how this guy deserves sympathy

- Erik ten Hag to @VI_nl: “Manchester United won the league for the last time in 2013, 11 years ago. But still they expect us to win every game while competing at the top. This club is not ready for that.”

“We were supposed to start building something and we made the first steps last year, but then you find out how big this club is and that nobody is ever satisfied. Within the club people were satisfied, but outside the club there was noise by saying I won only the Carabao Cup, lost the FA Cup Final and became 3rd.”

“Well, then you have no sense of reality. Other clubs had a much better squad.”
 
VP89 said:
No other big clubs is remotely the mess of a club we are. I can't think of a single big club that's run worse than Manchester United, apart from Chelsea in the last 18 months and that's not a benchmark we aspire to be.
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Yes, we have been a mess. But what would sticking with managers for longer periods have achieved? Would they have solved the mess at the club themselves, given time?

Also, a big part of that mess has been the failure to appoint the right managers at the right time.

Anyhow, I'm hopeful INEOS will start solving the mess of the last 11 years. Replacing the manager was always going to be an option when you have new decision makers with a certain route, whatever that may be.
 
VP89 said:
Both LVG and Jose were dropped while they were cementing either a style or play or a winning mentality because the players felt cold toward the manager.

They may not have necessarily been the right appointments at the time but a lot of investment had been made in their methods and the club did a U Turn to start again at weird moments. LVG when he won a cup and finished 5th (not exactly a capitulation) and Jose was left in the cold from the start of the transfer window after he finished 2nd with 81 points.

It seems the club simply have a history of cold feet when the going really gets tough. They have changed in the hope for a less turbulent ride with the next coach, but find themselves in the same position anywhere between 18 month and 2 years later irrespective of the style of manager they go for.
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I remember you backing Jose very hard, I think it’s bonkers to have wanted to stick with him any longer, he was as happy to be fired as 99% of the fanbase.
LVG had built a dreadful squad, we all needed to be put out of misery with him too.

Us lurching from one style of manager to another is valid, that’s a giant flaw with the previous regime that cost the club millions. That I agree with, there was no logic or succession planning with any of the appointments. I’d hope we’re going to rectify that.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Reading some new quotes from him this morning and tell me please how this guy deserves sympathy

- Erik ten Hag to @VI_nl: “Manchester United won the league for the last time in 2013, 11 years ago. But still they expect us to win every game while competing at the top. This club is not ready for that.”

“We were supposed to start building something and we made the first steps last year, but then you find out how big this club is and that nobody is ever satisfied. Within the club people were satisfied, but outside the club there was noise by saying I won only the Carabao Cup, lost the FA Cup Final and became 3rd.”

“Well, then you have no sense of reality. Other clubs had a much better squad.”
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This guy spent 400 million on his former players but "other clubs had a much better squad". Perhaps he wanted to spend a billion or two, who knows?
 
MadDogg said:
What's ridiculous about it? It's clearly true.

All the managers we signed were failures here, and none of them went on to prove that they would have been successful even under a better structure.

Even before we signed them, there's a reason that no other big club was interested in Moyes, no other big club was interested in LVG at that time, no other big club was interested in Mourinho at that time, no other big club was interested in Ole, and even with ETH (the only manager who an argument could be made was of the right profile) there was no other big club who was interested (even Spurs declined him 12 months earlier because they thought he wouldn't work).

As a club we've got almost all important decisions wrong since Ferguson retired. And that includes hiring the wrong managers, and also includes giving most of them too much time.
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Not one of our previous managers have manged a single Champions League match after getting fired by United. Says it all.
 
Why do people want Tuchel.. He's a combustible manager who's probably worse than ETH in man management, and not a guarantee of improvement in playing style. Let's be honest - our team is not setup for short-term success either. His appointment is going to repeat the regret cycle we've all become accustomed to.
 
Amir said:
Yes, we have been a mess. But what would sticking with managers for longer periods have achieved? Would they have solved the mess at the club themselves, given time?

Also, a big part of that mess has been the failure to appoint the right managers at the right time.

Anyhow, I'm hopeful INEOS will start solving the mess of the last 11 years. Replacing the manager was always going to be an option when you have new decision makers with a certain route, whatever that may be.
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Judas said:
I remember you backing Jose very hard, I think it’s bonkers to have wanted to stick with him any longer, he was as happy to be fired as 99% of the fanbase.
LVG had built a dreadful squad, we all needed to be put out of misery with him too.

Us lurching from one style of manager to another is valid, that’s a giant flaw with the previous regime that cost the club millions. That I agree with, there was no logic or succession planning with any of the appointments. I’d hope we’re going to rectify that.
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I mean the answer to both points is that there is an extremely low benchmark to beat had we just kept our coaches at the time. If we continued with the process with LVG I think we would have eventually had better attacking conviction (he wasn't known to be as boring as he was in his final season, he could have had a Bayern-esque run) and we may well have built a style that can be continued on to the next coach to progress.

With Jose I feel like the style went out the window and it was just about winning. We sacked off Jose because fans were tired of how players were alienated but much like the issue today with Ten Hag, I don't feel they look at the root of the problem. Sacking Jose did little for us in silverware - we got 2 CL finishes with Ole and regressed massively in professionalism and player power. Don't think that was the play.

Maybe our problem is that we don't hire the right coaches - if we go with that school of thought, there's an argument that we should be dead certain on the next one if we were sacking Ten Hag. I don't think we are, and I don't think the market currently has stand out candidates on paper.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Reading some new quotes from him this morning and tell me please how this guy deserves sympathy

- Erik ten Hag to @VI_nl: “Manchester United won the league for the last time in 2013, 11 years ago. But still they expect us to win every game while competing at the top. This club is not ready for that.”

“We were supposed to start building something and we made the first steps last year, but then you find out how big this club is and that nobody is ever satisfied. Within the club people were satisfied, but outside the club there was noise by saying I won only the Carabao Cup, lost the FA Cup Final and became 3rd.”

“Well, then you have no sense of reality. Other clubs had a much better squad.”
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Really venturing towards Jose “heritage” territory.
 
The root of the problem with Jose was Jose. even if he’d got his way in the transfer window the meltdown was coming, it’s not as if his targets were earth shatteringly brilliant either.
 
NK86 said:
Really venturing towards Jose “heritage” territory.
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It's not an unreasonable comment - we haven't really been relevant since 2012 and admission is the first step to progress. Fans hate to hear it, but its a fact.
 
crossy1686 said:
He’s called out the lads he’s asked to step in and cover the injuries multiple times. Every time we’ve lost he’s blamed the makeshift defence he’s asked to play, despite some of them failing fitness tests before the game.

He specifically blamed Garnacho and subbed him during a certain match which caused Garnacho to like tweets calling Ten Hag out for his shitty behaviour.

If you want to view everything through rose tinted glasses then you do that. I’m not going to argue with you about his behaviour. If you think he’s done nothing wrong at any point I’ve got nothing more to say.
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Not really looking to argue, just interested in your initial response.

I don’t really agree with you, and still don’t based on your examples. That’s OK, but now I see where you were coming from.
 
VP89 said:
It's not an unreasonable comment - we haven't really been relevant since 2012 and admission is the first step to progress. Fans hate to hear it, but its a fact.
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People are and will mistake that for a lack of ambition when in reality it's just the status quo.
 
VP89 said:
It's not an unreasonable comment - we haven't really been relevant since 2012 and admission is the first step to progress. Fans hate to hear it, but its a fact.
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It’s disingenuous to pretend people think otherwise, this fanbase is painfully aware of our current standing. That doesn’t mean we should allow our standards to live in the gutter.
 
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