Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
To the people demanding we swoop in for Poch.....you do realise he has been sacked for a reason?

With the amount money Chelsea have spent, they have been awful.

This is what top clubs do, you have a season or two max, you dont deliver, they show you the door. No trusting the process and wasting years.

Same would happen at Madrid, Bayern, Barca etc. No thanks to the Argentinian fraud.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I’ve not said I’m Ten Hag in. I’ve said I’ve not reached the point where I’d actively hound him out of the club.

If there is a line:
In__________________Me__________________Out
Click to expand...


I just find it funny that your line would have been 10th place which we have avoided by sheer good fortune (as most here would agree).

Whether 'not out' doesn't mean 'in' . Each to their own.
 
DJ_21 said:
Right, but they did before joining us…. They’ve probably lost their minds since being with us.
Click to expand...
It's lazy thinking to place all blame on the club, as if United is a singular living organism, corrupting all who join. The employees, from managers to players to executives, are all responsible in some way for our failures. Real people are responsible and we can't just pass things off as it being the fault of "the club"

When an organisation is collectively shit, it's not generally a smart business decision to assume the manager is only shit because of those around him, especially when that manager is clearly doing things that contribute heavily to the poor performance of the organisation.

Bottom line is, Ten Hag certainly does not stand out as an exceptional man who is only failing because he's surrounded by a sea of shit
 
Leftback99 said:
I just find it funny that your line would have been 10th place which we have avoided by sheer good fortune (as most here would agree).

Whether 'not out' doesn't mean 'in' . Each to their own.
Click to expand...
When you consider 10th would mean only 49 points. That might help contextualise it.

We were 9 points from 4th (a reasonable amount to have assumed injuries could impact) but 12 points from 10th.

Hence my line.
 
Nori- said:
To the people demanding we swoop in for Poch.....you do realise he has been sacked for a reason?

With the amount money Chelsea have spent, they have been awful.

This is what top clubs do, you have a season or two max, you dont deliver, they show you the door. No trusting the process and wasting years.

Same would happen at Madrid, Bayern, Barca etc. No thanks to the Argentinian fraud.
Click to expand...

I like that mentality of those clubs, however would still go for Tuchel over Pochettino. What I will say is much like Mourinho was a manager Utd always wanted I feel that Pochettino might feel like another itch they have to scratch too.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I’ve not said I’m Ten Hag in. I’ve said I’ve not reached the point where I’d actively hound him out of the club.



If there is a line:

In__________________Me__________________Out
Click to expand...
Mate, you're about as much of a centrist as Elon. And I mean that as praise.
 
UnsungHero said:
INEOS have high standards and will want their own staff.

I think they've already decided ETH is gone (at the very top level) but obviously won't say anything with a cup final on the horizon, the club isn't exactly leak proof.

ETH has been a dismal failure this season by every possible measure, there's no discussion to be had.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with this. So far INEOS has seemed to run a pretty tight operation and has looked to hire best in class operators in the executive dept. Couple that with the fact that Ten Hag wasn't their choice and I think that he's gone either way.
 
Nori- said:
To the people demanding we swoop in for Poch.....you do realise he has been sacked for a reason?

With the amount money Chelsea have spent, they have been awful.

This is what top clubs do, you have a season or two max, you dont deliver, they show you the door. No trusting the process and wasting years.

Same would happen at Madrid, Bayern, Barca etc. No thanks to the Argentinian fraud.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to pretend that I followed every Chelsea performance with great attention, but it's pretty funny that they already got rid of their manager when, all things considered, he actually had them IMPROVING as the season went on as opposed to our own manager who after half of a season has had us steadily declining since then. But we still have fans willing to give him a third year while Chelsea already deemed their 6th place finish unacceptable
 
BenitoSTARR said:
When you consider 10th would mean only 49 points. That might help contextualise it.

We were 9 points from 4th (a reasonable amount to have assumed injuries could impact) but 12 points from 10th.

Hence my line.
Click to expand...
Do you honestly think Villa get smashed 5-0 in the last game of the season if they still had CL to play for? So you might as well make that at least 10 points behind 4th if we're being realistic. Then you've got the -1 goal difference to contend with also, knowing that our GD all season was never better than +1.

It can be 1 point or 30 points behind, it's an absolute shambles that over 38 games we're 8th, we've played absolutely shite for large parts of the season even when we've had a fully fit squad.
 
Got a feeling he’s gonna leave win or lose this weekend. Hope he can go out with another trophy but he’s a dead man walking
 
Castia said:
Got a feeling he’s gonna leave win or lose this weekend. Hope he can go out with another trophy
Click to expand...
Him not going after the final signals to everyone that under performance at this level is totally acceptable and you don't have to do your job properly if you have a few injuries.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
What do you think a centrist is in the context of Ten Hag?
Click to expand...
Plenty of posters don't have an opninon about him staying or going, have offered both praise and criticism after games and throughout the season. I don't think I've seen any from you unless it always carried some sort of catch, like injuries or players underperformed or structure made the signings.
 
crossy1686 said:
Do you honestly think Villa get smashed 5-0 in the last game of the season if they still had CL to play for? So you might as well make that at least 10 points behind 4th if we're being realistic. Then you've got the -1 goal difference to contend with also, knowing that our GD all season was never better than +1.

It can be 1 point or 30 points behind, it's an absolute shambles that over 38 games we're 8th, we've played absolutely shite for large parts of the season even when we've had a fully fit squad.
Click to expand...
So in your fantasy where Villa win and no other result changes for some reason we’re in the middle points wise.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Plenty of posters don't have an opninon about him staying or going, have offered both praise and criticism after games and throughout the season. I don't think I've seen any from you unless it always carried some sort of catch, like injuries or players underperformed or structure made the signings.
Click to expand...
I have offered both praise and criticism of him.

I also acknowledge the challenging circumstances of his position this season.

Id say that’s pretty central. I don’t actively want him gone but I’m also very far from waving a flag and supporting him as a manager. I just want the club to do well.
 
Standards will be at an all time low if he isn’t sacked next week.
Ineos will lose all credibility if he is allowed to continue after this train wreck of a season.
 
crossy1686 said:
It's no more unrealistic than your fantasy about Ten Hag romping to 4th with a fully fit squad.
Click to expand...
Romping? I didn’t say it would be easy.

It would take a very biased individual to not accept that we would have more points without the injuries. The gap between us and 4th wasn’t some insurmountable chasm (without extenuating circumstances)
 
AndySmith1990 said:
It's lazy thinking to place all blame on the club, as if United is a singular living organism, corrupting all who join. The employees, from managers to players to executives, are all responsible in some way for our failures. Real people are responsible and we can't just pass things off as it being the fault of "the club"

When an organisation is collectively shit, it's not generally a smart business decision to assume the manager is only shit because of those around him, especially when that manager is clearly doing things that contribute heavily to the poor performance of the organisation.

Bottom line is, Ten Hag certainly does not stand out as an exceptional man who is only failing because he's surrounded by a sea of shit
Click to expand...
Ok fair enough. I agree with most of what you’re saying. Aslong as you agree it isn’t JUST the manager. Which I wasn’t saying it isn’t either. Everyone takes some blame down the line. It starts from the top though, with correct decisions and focussing on football matters rather than money we may eventually get somewhere.
 
2 very good managers available in Tuchel and Poch. Tuchel would probably still be my 1st choice but I'd be happy with Poch too. Don't think there's really any excuse for not making the switch regardless of the outcome on Saturday. There's actually more managers available now than I can recall for a long time. Most of these will probably be in jobs by the start of next season so we won't have the same options if things are going this badly in Oct/Nov.
 
DJ_21 said:
Right, but they did before joining us…. They’ve probably lost their minds since being with us.
Click to expand...

Did they though?

Moyes was Moyes.

Louis was definitely past it circa 2014.

Jose won a title at Chelsea in 2015 but the signs were there he was on the slide.

Solskjaer wasn't a top class coach before joining United.

Ten Hag was the only one you could say was in some sort of upward trajectory. But then so were Andre Villas Boas and Frank de Boer before they got big jobs and were found out at the top level.
 
Dazzmondo said:
2 very good managers available in Tuchel and Poch. Tuchel would probably still be my 1st choice but I'd be happy with Poch too. Don't think there's really any excuse for not making the switch regardless of the outcome on Saturday. There's actually more managers available now than I can recall for a long time. Most of these will probably be in jobs by the start of next season so we won't have the same options if things are going this badly in Oct/Nov.
Click to expand...

Hard pass on both of these for me.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
So let's look at this rationally:

Reasons to let him go =
setting new unwanted records regularly- guilty as charged

Looking tactically inept in most matches- sometimes, although some interesting ideas that work (Liverpool FA cup game for instance, Newcastle at home with the false 9)
No clear style of play- not guilty- there's a clear plan: press high, super fast transitions and overloads, balls played into space for forwards to chase. It's just not a very good plan with a lot of these players unsuitable. Would it be better with more suitable players? I'm honestly not sure and would be fine with anyone doubting this. But it still is a plan and it isn't right to say he doesn't have a clear style of play. It's just not a very good one right now.

Plays Rashford 90% of the season even though he looks awful- Guilty BUT when your senior striker scored 30 goals last season you can see why he wanted to play Rashford into form, especially with three very young and inconsistent forwards (Amad, Garnacho, Hojlund) one permanently injured forward in Martial and Antony who is shite in getting goals. I can see why he stuck with Rashford. It's a just a shame this confidence that he'd regain form was misplaced.

Plays Amad 0.5% of the season even though Antony looks awful- I think Amad was vying more for Garancho or Rashford's position wasn't he? Antony has not been a first choice player for the majority of the season either. Being angry with him for not picking Amad is fine but i think Garnacho/Rashford are the players he mostly picked instead.

Often gets embarrassed by other PL sides, including ones that we should be breezing past- Guilty

Seems to think he's doing great- Not guilty- said many many times it's unacceptable but is confident for the future.

Constant excuses- 50-50 on that one. I can see why people are angry though. Injuries have been ridiculous though.

Reasons to keep him:
We've had a lot of injuries. Correct
Saves money. Correct
Matches Liverpool and City's managers in hairstyle. Correct, but i prefer Poch's luscious hair.
Click to expand...
I don't think some of your comments were fair or rational but some were right in my opinion.

For one more reason to keep him i'd say his work with Mainoo, Garnacho, and Dalot has been good for the most part and he seems, remarkably, to have kept the dressing room on his side for the most part.

Another reason for him to go is we don't score enough and i don't think we attack well enough under him. Could this improve? i'm not sure.
 
Garethw said:
Standards will be at an all time low if he isn’t sacked next week.
Ineos will lose all credibility if he is allowed to continue after this train wreck of a season.
Click to expand...
Irwin99 said:
I don't think some of your comments were fair or rational but some were right in my opinion.

For one more reason to keep him i'd say his work with Mainoo, Garnacho, and Dalot has been good for the most part and he seems, remarkably, to have kept the dressing room on his side for the most part.

Another reason for him to go is we don't score enough and i don't think we attack well enough under him. Could this improve? i'm not sure.
Click to expand...

I agree, we are not very good in the attacking phase under him, injuries or no.
 
stevoc said:
Did they though?

Moyes was Moyes.

Louis was definitely past it circa 2014.

Jose won a title at Chelsea in 2015 but the signs were there he was on the slide.

Solskjaer wasn't a top class coach before joining United.

Ten Hag was the only one you could say was in some sort of upward trajectory. But then so were Andre Villas Boas and Frank de Boer before they got big jobs and were found out at the top level.
Click to expand...
Moyes was hand picked by Fergie. We all know he only picked him due to being Scottish and Fergie had the right to have a say in the next manager and he was hoping he’d follow in his footsteps. LVG finished 3rd with Netherlands and had previously won titles in Spain, Holland although they was many years ago but he at least had a cv behind him and he was the only one that was actually half successful in implementing a style although it bored us all to death. You could see what he wanted. Mourinho also has a successful CV and was premier league proven as he’s won the prem before along with every other league title in about 4 different countries. He’d been successful in the champions league with 2 different teams. Ole was hired because of the great run he took us on. Was unlucky not to win the Europa league.
 
Dazzmondo said:
2 very good managers available in Tuchel and Poch. Tuchel would probably still be my 1st choice but I'd be happy with Poch too. Don't think there's really any excuse for not making the switch regardless of the outcome on Saturday. There's actually more managers available now than I can recall for a long time. Most of these will probably be in jobs by the start of next season so we won't have the same options if things are going this badly in Oct/Nov.
Click to expand...

Yeah I am still favouring Tuchel but reckon INEOS would be more attracted to appointing Pochettino. Completely agree that there will be lack of options into next season
 
Poch is available now. Launch him to the moon Saturday evening regardless of result.
 
Garethw said:
You were in full agreement with me when the managers name was Solskjaer.
Why does this absolute fraud get such an easy ride?
Click to expand...
Its more that INEOS are actually bringing well qualified people to judge the situation for the first time since what, David Gill days? And your view is essentially that in a hypothetical of them favouring the manager after knowing what's happening behind the scenes, you'd still know better.

At this stage I'm willing to trust the process that the new structure adopt, because they're good appointments. That's irrespective of whether ten hag is their man or not.
 
It’s a really tough one to call in all fairness. Even sir Jim says that there clearly is something wrong with the environment in the club for this to be solely put at the managers feet, lvg moyes mourinho ole, they’re not bad managers. Also Kieran McKenna was in the background and couldn’t get a tune out the players. When McKenna and Carrick left people were delighted, these people aren’t idiots but seem to come up with terrible results when they come here, which raises the point it’s a problem internally. So for me it’s about how do you want to play? Does that manager fit how we want to play? He seems to want to play like city, high possession and pressing with cutting edge. There are a lot of managers who could try and implement that! So is Erik the right man for what they’re aspiring to? I don’t know how they’ll go.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
When you consider 10th would mean only 49 points. That might help contextualise it.

We were 9 points from 4th (a reasonable amount to have assumed injuries could impact) but 12 points from 10th.

Hence my line.
Click to expand...

And 13 points from 13th place. SAF finished 13th, ETH can do the same ... if only we have some patience with him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.