That's fine, two whomping pile of meh displays against Brighton and Citeh without any matches after will definitely let people revert back to type
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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That's fine, two whomping pile of meh displays against Brighton and Citeh without any matches after will definitely let people revert back to type
INEOS are saving every penny they can for FFP.....maybe this all comes down to keeping him on to finish his contract so they won't have to pay the 15 mil the would owe him? If it still isn't working out after next season, sack him, pry Nagelsmann away from Germany or maybe Ancelotti or at that poing McKenna.
Yeah maybe we are hamstrung by FFP
I’m ten Hag out. Also I’m anyone who’s ten Hag in out. Look at us finishing 8th with a negative GD. Performance-wise we should be 12th. xPts 42. You don’t finish 8th, you don’t concede more goals than you score, and you sure as F*** shouldn’t be factually right to claim we’re actually lucky to be this high. Are we West Ham? No structure, no midfield, no progress, no vision, just embarassment to the point our actual rivals like Arsenal and Liverpool pitty us. Shambolic CL performance, you don’t finish last in a group with Galatasaray and f*ing Copenhagen.
No good candidate argument? BS. Put a monkey in charge of this squad and we might replicate this season. This statement is not a joke, imagine it, realize it.
No good candidate argument? BS. Put a monkey in charge of this squad and we might replicate this season. This statement is not a joke, imagine it, realize it.
Do better than 8th place after spending a bucket load of money? I am going to say take your pick. Most of the PL managers can do better than that.
McKenna is the only one in your list that I would take a chance on. Rest don't excite me much.
About Jose, I was actually wondering in the last few days if he could do an Ancelloti if gets a chance with a big team. Carlo's stock fell quite a a lot after his stint with Napoli and he had to take a job at Everton next. Then Real came calling and the rest is history. Can Jose do similar if he somehow lands a top job? I surely don't wants us to take that chance as I have never liked Jose's style of play, but it would be interesting to see he has some fight left in him. Love him or hate him, he surely is a character. Eg. it would be fun to see him get under the skin of Arteta or Pep if he luckily lands the Chelsea job.
tl;dr.
He spent upwards of 400m to have us 8th with a negative goal difference. It's not a narrative, it's a bare fact. The whole season we have had like 2-3 good performances. That's not acceptable however you may want to twist it.
Nah, don’t think so. I think we might even win at Brighton and will then massively outperform our worst ever PL season (by TWO points) which will be considered good enough, and against City a 2-goal loss will be considered a great result and we are more than capable of delivering it. I think he has saved his job with Newcastle game.
What if we have a similar amount of injuries next season? Does he need another 10 seasons to get a top 4 finish and find a season where he doesn’t have injuries? Does he need another 400 million to spend on bang average players that he previously managed and will end overpaying on? Can he only get results against mid table teams only if all of his players are available? If the answer is yes to any of these questions, then it’s not clear how you can reconcile keeping him.
So by year 3 of Ten Hag the expectation is to still be where we were in year one of Ten Hag. And then what would you reasonably expect by year 4?
Bear in mind when he was hired everyone reasonably expected a title or at least a title challenge by year 3.
It's actually a relatively straightforward point. As you say they were all hired on their past records (except Ole), they all failed at United and were sacked. None have gone on to get hired by another top team and do there what we hoped they would do at United.
So were the club wrong to sack any or all of them?
Next seasons expectations are going to be the same irrespective of the manager.
There's a full and complete reset of the squad and structure above the coach, so I don't think it's really fair to assume next season should be anything more as a minimum target.
The clubs was right to sack them but not Ten Hag because he'll be the next SAF with patience. Look at Arteta mate!
I'm not criticizing here but some people live very much in the here and now. Their opinion will constantly change based on the last game/performance. It's where the phrase you're only as good as your last game comes from.
They realistically shouldn't be though, we have a manager who's had 2 years and 4 windows to build and shape this squad into what he wants and to implement a style of football.
Next year would be year 3 of the Ten Hag era but year one of someone elses.
They realistically should, because there's a new set of owners and a new game model that the manager now has to abide by.
I didn't state my opinion as a fact. The only facts we have are results, everything else is obviously opinions. OGS finished 2nd and 3rd with United, it's not a barometer of a good manager by itself. Ten Hag has not done enough in his career to be considered being at "irreplaceable unless an outstanding candidate is available" level.
Moyes was clearly out of depth but I can't see how anyone can compare him to any manager post SAF. All other manager had at least 1 transfer window were they were fully backed. Moyes didn't had that. He was thrown in the deep end as SAF's replacement, he had an old squad to work and he had a rookie of a CEO to rely upon.
And people even complained he dared to bring his own staff instead of just continuing with SAFs!
I think that was more because the staff in existence had already won leagues whereas Moyes just brought who he knew at Everton.
That's a rather complex issue TBH. The squad he inherited was living on a prayer. It was mainly made up of a ridiculously talented but old players on their last legs with a couple of workhorses to provide the work rate. On top of that the club was reluctant in spending money. That's a terrible situation for a new unproven manager to go into. The former could easily lose motivation (they won the lot and had nothing to prove) while the latter were simply not good enough to carry the team on their own.
If Moyes kept SAF's people then maybe they could persuade the old heads to give a damn for another year. There again I can't blame the manager for wanting his own people.
I never wanted Moyes as our manager but even I acknowledge that the guy was doomed from the start. SAF's shadow is hard to live under till this very day let alone weeks after he left.
Think his compensation drops to £6.25m because we didn't get CL football.
It’s been mentioned a few times the reason is ffp in this accounting year until july 1st. After that he will be replaced.
So i don't really know point you're trying to make here.
I honestly think the top reds enjoy us being shit, makes them feel more like proper fans getting behind their plucky underdog team.
ETH at the start of a three year cycle then is he?
I'd say the players they've bought, with the possible exception of Rice, weren't obvious "big" names, even if the fees paid were significant. They clearly have the ability to identify what they need from a player and/or see how that player fits into the current system or improves it.
Bringing this back to Ten Hag, if we'd improved this season in terms of a consistent and coherent system, even if it didn't work all the time and even if, in the end the league position didn't improve, it'd be fair to say he needs more time and is building towards something. As it is, there's no evidence of that. We've regressed. The players he's brought in have not improved us or moved us towards whatever system he's trying to play and in the end, it's descended into total chaos. How a top class manager can think it's acceptable to concede so many chances I don't know. His stubbornness is also a huge red flag.
The key point here is that Arsenal have been proven right to stick with Arteta, and they're getting the benefit. But I would say that even relatively early on you could see that there was a coherence in what he was trying to do and a direction of travel. We seemed to have that last year, at least until the Carabao Cup final.
I'm not suggesting you're saying this but some seem to push the idea that just because Arteta came good, Ten Hag will as well is clearly flawed. You could use that argument for any failing manager.
I've asked this question on here loads and have never had a coherent or clear answer from anyone: what exactly is he doing well? What can anyone point to to say that with more time and more money there's more chance that not he'll come good? Pointing to another manager who did come good isn't an answer.
Ten Hag has had a lot of bad luck to be fair to him. The question is whether the club proceed on blind faith and give him more time with a single year left on his deal and the risk the players/type of player he want's won't be wanted by the next man in. However they proceed, it's a big call for INEOS. If they get this wrong they lose credibility.
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Any manager will be. It's a fresh structure and a new game model. The old plans, whatever they were, are effectively scrapped.
Wow, even Norwich have more standards than us. They sacked their coach for losing to Leeds. But here we are trying to find every excuse under the book to safeguard the poor 9 million a year earning manager.
Why does this keep getting repeated?
Like genuinely why?
Every manager post United has not done anything to invalidate the decision of the sacking.
In fact, every manager that was sacked got more time than they deserved.
People are defending a manager who's got a negative GD in the past 51 league games.
Standards are gone.
Standards are gone.
He's had two years and we are getting worse the more time he spends with us. Him getting a fresh cycle just feels like madness to me.
They're defending a manager who hasn't had Luke Shaw fully fit. Big difference, bucko.
And the best defender in the league Lisandro.
I read a post here post Newcastle game that said something along the lines of "I'm willing to give him another year on the basis that if Bruno can transform us this much then Lisandro probably can do the same to our defence"
I feel like all sick thoughts regarding Manchester United can be found in this thread now.
And forgetting those 20 minutes against Tottenham. Fools I tell ya
It's hilarious because Bruno has only missed 2 games all season. He hasn't had a good season either. He only found some form since April. Bro was there for the other 17 losses.
It might be a straight shoot-out between Liverpool and ourselves for the title of "most deluded fanbase". The post SAF years really exposed us.
I made a mess of a post haven't I? Please let me explain myself better
Most of our top players were at the wrong end of their career, thus they needed to be carefully managed. So on one hand I can understand why SAF wanted Moyes to work with the same people who had already done so.
On the other hand I also understand Moyes for wanting his own people in.
In my opinion, United should have tackled this issue way before we reached that point. By the time SAF retired we should have had
a- an experienced Sporting director, head of recruitment and technical director in place. These people would have had a huge say on transfers (for example it didn't made sense to spend that silly money on RVP), whom the next manager should be + they would make sure that some of the young talent we had at the time won't be mismanaged or/and sold (Evans, Keane and Zaha)
b- ready made replacements for the likes of Evra, Carrick, Scholes and Giggs.
Gill shouldn't have been made to postpone his departure by 1 year and during that time we should have fount a CEO with football background.
What am I trying to twist? Your reading comprehension seems to be awful.
Forget results (which point towards sacking him weeks ago), purely on a performance basis the idea of him being in charge next season genuinely scares me.
We're looking at a manager that has had us looking like a lower-mid table team for over a year at this point. Compactness be damned, after two full pre-seasons I guess I should just get used to the idea of not having a midfield.
We're looking at a manager that has had us looking like a lower-mid table team for over a year at this point. Compactness be damned, after two full pre-seasons I guess I should just get used to the idea of not having a midfield.
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