Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Djemba-Djemba said:
Maguire has picked up a muscle injury in training and will be out for 3 weeks.

I'm now utterly convinced the way we train is the cause for these injuries. It happens way way too often to just be unlucky.
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Yeah there is clearly an issue with the training
 
luke511 said:
Ten Hag wanted Antony, the scouts thought the asking price was too high, Ten Hag has an awful start to the season, the pressure’s on and the club give in to Ajax’s demands. Ten Hag gets his target. I don’t understand how anyone can argue Antony wasn’t a priority Ten Hag signing.

Timber’s rejection is completely out of the club’s control, we then move onto Ten Hag’s second choice, Martinez, who remains a top target. We bought who Ten Hag wanted, the club didn’t go for someone he didn’t want, so his argument doesn’t hold up.
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Well, that first summer was a bit messy and it seems like there were plans when Rangnick was around which got changed late in the day as ETH came in. That being said if ETH was pushing Antony so hard then why didn't he push earlier for them to do a deal? Scouts thought it was too high at what 40m but if ETH had pushed earlier it maybe gets done at 50m instead of 80m to whatever it ended up being. A lot of that deal feels like they had accepted it wasn't going to happen and then the club panicked after the first two games. That doesn't absolve ETH but managers rarely turn down more players.

By definition, if Timber rejects the move and we move onto the 2nd choice then it wasn't the top target was it?

Regardless, none of it absolves ETH. Even if we had signed nobody he needs to be coaching the team better and doing more with what he has. I think people are getting upset by a guy defending his record and expecting ETH to be entirely rational and honest about the situation. No coach is going to talk to the media and say 'we're shit, we made mistakes with tactics, we signed the wrong players'. That's a fast track to getting fired and you only have to look at Conte or Mourinho to see how well it goes down.
 
Blood Mage said:
Spurs fans are already turning on Postecoglu and yet there are still elements of our fanbase who are devoted to ETH. Some might say that this makes United fans a cut above the rest but I'd argue it's part of what holds the club back.
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Absolutely spot on we are far too accepting but if you're not then you get branded a glory hunter
 
stevoc said:
Given Dutch coaches penchant for left footed centre backs. Had we signed Timber first, we then wouldn't have signed Martinez yes?

Who then do you think Ten Hag had in mind to play LCB?
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Timber possibly and then a LCB last summer I'd guess. Timber seemed fairly adept even at LB for Arsenal so he seemed capable. I think ETH was of the view that Timber was too big a talent to let him go elsewhere. In the end though having signed Martinez you can't then sign another small centre back for the PL.
 
sparx99 said:
Well, that first summer was a bit messy and it seems like there were plans when Rangnick was around which got changed late in the day as ETH came in. That being said if ETH was pushing Antony so hard then why didn't he push earlier for them to do a deal? Scouts thought it was too high at what 40m but if ETH had pushed earlier it maybe gets done at 50m instead of 80m to whatever it ended up being. A lot of that deal feels like they had accepted it wasn't going to happen and then the club panicked after the first two games. That doesn't absolve ETH but managers rarely turn down more players.

By definition, if Timber rejects the move and we move onto the 2nd choice then it wasn't the top target was it?

Regardless, none of it absolves ETH. Even if we had signed nobody he needs to be coaching the team better and doing more with what he has. I think people are getting upset by a guy defending his record and expecting ETH to be entirely rational and honest about the situation. No coach is going to talk to the media and say 'we're shit, we made mistakes with tactics, we signed the wrong players'. That's a fast track to getting fired and you only have to look at Conte or Mourinho to see how well it goes down.
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We did but apparently he wasn't top choice so we then left it. People really want to blame everything (literally everything on ETH) but his fault is the identification of Antony only. The fee (which could have been lower), the wages, the inability to provide other targets, the inability to say 'no' are all on the club. Same exact issues we had with LVG so many years on because we refused to put people in place to run the recruitment side of things. ineos hopefully have changed that.
 
sparx99 said:
Well, that first summer was a bit messy and it seems like there were plans when Rangnick was around which got changed late in the day as ETH came in. That being said if ETH was pushing Antony so hard then why didn't he push earlier for them to do a deal? Scouts thought it was too high at what 40m but if ETH had pushed earlier it maybe gets done at 50m instead of 80m to whatever it ended up being. A lot of that deal feels like they had accepted it wasn't going to happen and then the club panicked after the first two games. That doesn't absolve ETH but managers rarely turn down more players.

By definition, if Timber rejects the move and we move onto the 2nd choice then it wasn't the top target was it?

Regardless, none of it absolves ETH. Even if we had signed nobody he needs to be coaching the team better and doing more with what he has. I think people are getting upset by a guy defending his record and expecting ETH to be entirely rational and honest about the situation. No coach is going to talk to the media and say 'we're shit, we made mistakes with tactics, we signed the wrong players'. That's a fast track to getting fired and you only have to look at Conte or Mourinho to see how well it goes down.
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You're misinterpreting what Ten Hag is saying, he's saying he didn't get the players he wanted, Martinez is absolutely a player he wanted. Even Malacia, we needed a back up player for Luke Shaw, Ten Hag wanted Malacia as that back up left back and he was bought, another player he got who he wanted. It's not as specific as being made out. If I become manager of utd and want us to sign Vinicius Jr, we don't sign him because he rejects us, that doesn't open up the opportunity for me to complain about the club not signing who I wanted when it goes tits up.
 
luke511 said:
You're misinterpreting what Ten Hag is saying, he's saying he didn't get the players he wanted, Martinez is absolutely a player he wanted. Even Malacia, we needed a back up player for Luke Shaw, Ten Hag wanted Malacia as that back up left back and he was bought, another player he got who he wanted. It's not as specific as being made out. If I become manager of utd and want us to sign Vinicius Jr, we don't sign him because he rejects us, that doesn't open up the opportunity for me to complain about the club not signing who I wanted when it goes tits up.
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Which is fine. Of course he signed off on Malacia and Martinez. Both of those seemed like decent signings last year as well. Certainly, their injuries this season being basically the whole season couldn't have been predicted.

I mostly took his comments to mean that we have signed the likes of Hojlund instead of Kane (or Osimhen or another established striker) and that comes with a difference in expectations. I don't think it was particularly a jab at the club and was in part a response to Mourinho's comments. Lukaku and Pogba were certainly closer to Kane in terms of profile than Hojlund.
 
sparx99 said:
Why would you go back though? If you move onto your 2nd choice you don't then buy the 1st choice again at the next opportunity. We do know we looked at CB's last summer with Pavard linked if Maguire left. It's likely though that Timber and Martinez together would have been too small so I don't think TImber stayed on the list.
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Rotation? If they identified Timber as they better player and clear first choice then you would want to get him at some point. But my point is, first choice, second choice, third choice, what does it matter? You rarely get your first choice and sometimes your last choice works out better than the guy you really wanted. If Ten Hag would have gotten his preferred first choices, whomever they are, we'd still be shit because the system is fundamentally flawed if it depends solely on getting your first choice in the market all the time.
 
Zumbi said:
No, I didn’t. I specifically implied that we shouldn’t assume their competency. That’s literally how this back and forth started. Try to keep up.
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You assumed (based on completely different people in an entirely different structure) that things would continue.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
We did but apparently he wasn't top choice so we then left it. People really want to blame everything (literally everything on ETH) but his fault is the identification of Antony only. The fee (which could have been lower), the wages, the inability to provide other targets, the inability to say 'no' are all on the club. Same exact issues we had with LVG so many years on because we refused to put people in place to run the recruitment side of things. ineos hopefully have changed that.
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Nah that's bollocks, he might not be the one carrying out the negotiations but he's informed and will ultimately sign off on it. He thought it was fine to pay that amount for Antony (and the others) and if he doesn't have the brains to realise that impacts our budget elsewhere it's on him.

As a manager if you're signing a player you've already managed for such a fee you have to be very confident of their success.
 
sparx99 said:
Timber possibly and then a LCB last summer I'd guess. Timber seemed fairly adept even at LB for Arsenal so he seemed capable. I think ETH was of the view that Timber was too big a talent to let him go elsewhere. In the end though having signed Martinez you can't then sign another small centre back for the PL.
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But what are you basing the idea that he wanted Timber ahead of Martinez on? How do you know he didn't want both equally?

Everyone thought Casemiro was a panic signing when he couldn't get DeJong but Ten Hag recently revealed he wanted both and his plan was for them to play together.
 
Berbaclass said:
Explain to me how posting factual data about Ten Hag in the Ten Hag thread is irrelevant?
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We know very well why the creepy weirdo behind those tweets choose to use "win rate" for comparison. Sorry if that's you.
 
Berbaclass said:
Do we? In my humble opinion win rate is quite important.
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I remember 2 years ago people (not necessarily you) were banging on about how win ratio was a poor stat to judge a manager on in defence of Rangnick. PPG was a much better indicator apparently.
 
Stop feeding the WUM. This has always been his MO. Was the exact same way in the Club Sale thread.
 
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