Considering what the club did in January, I suspect we're so close to the PSR line that we won't be able to afford sacking Ten Hag even with a CL clause. I think it would happen July 1st, when we move into the next accounting period. Possibly with an announcement after the cup final.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Considering what the club did in January, I suspect we're so close to the PSR line that we won't be able to afford sacking Ten Hag even with a CL clause. I think it would happen July 1st, when we move into the next accounting period. Possibly with an announcement after the cup final.
It's a small part of it in the way that the bottom brick is a small part of a tower. Without it you are fekked. Everything else falls down. WIth such big spaces, retaining and passing the ball becomes a nightmare, every pass is a Bruno failed Hollywood pass.
We have to be honest and say these are problems of transitioning from a Frankenstein squad built up over a decade to something coherent. It won't happen in one or even two seasons. And if we bottle the process it won't happen at all.
Wigan, Newport, Forest, freak Liverpool result and Coventry on pens has got us to the cup final.
the same way Pre Emery Villa, Burnley, Charlton, Forest and Newcastle massively aided our league cup victory.
last years FA cup final run was Everton, Reading, West Ham, Fulham, Brighton on pens and whimpering loss to city in the final.
lets not pretend Ten Hag is some sort of
Managerial genius for us taking advantage of what have been very kind draws
Not really. Moyes is barely a EL level manager, Van Gaal was an has-been when it comes to club Football, Mourinho imploded with Chelsea and has done nothing of note at a good level since, Ole is a nobody when it comes to managing and ETH showed promises but as I mentioned in the past have a look at his continental success and you will start wondering the 2018-2019 CL campaign does some heavy lifting.
If we had great managers I would agree with your question but the reality of the matter is that we picked managers in the tier where managers often fails. We are talking about the Hodgson, Dalglish, Bosz, late 2000s Capello tier.
We don't have a fecking process. It's all in your head. We're not going to get better simply by giving a poor manager more time. That's called delusion
Also most of this "frankenstein squad" is different to the one left by the last manager. It doesn't consist of numerous players from every past manager.
Taking a thread off topic
You're one of those people that would trust Rishi with the future of the UK, aren't you?
I agree to an extent, but I've explained how it is possible to get away with a team not blessed with pace, through focusing on keeping possession well. It all comes together as one, but it's clear that Ten Hag doesn't want to play this way, so it's on him. But the issue for him is that Ineos do want us to play this way. So he's not even implementing something we want in the long run.
Whoever we get will be demanded to play this way by the sounds of it, so I don't really get your concern.
Re the Frankenstein squad, he's bought a lot of players. Funnily enough, it's those he didn't buy that have actually helped him the most this season.
BenitoSTARR isn't qualified to be prime minister, therefore he's happy with whoever the public vote for
Ten Hags signings have been shit. His management has been shit too. People cant blame it on a ‘Frankenstein squad’ when he has heavily, heavily relied on Bruno, Rashford, Maguire, Mctominay, Varane, Dalot, Shaw and AWB this season and last season and he signed none of them.
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I clearly am not. If I was a sheep I’d be bleating Ten Hag out without a plan.
My point is if they decide to sack him there’ll be a reason. If they decided to recruit someone else there’s a reason. And I’m willing to fairly criticise any decision I just think it’s stupid to think it’s weird to trust a much more experienced footballing operation that we are putting together.
You can be ambivalent about a manger and also defend our performances or situation.
Well I’ve hardly sat on the fence this thread is evidence enough of that.
I still don’t think there is a clearly better option than Ten Hag available. If it was down to me I wouldn’t sack him this summer. I’d give him until October/November next season.
However I have zero issue with him being sacked and replaced as just because I don’t see the manager to come in that could have sorted all this out this season doesn’t mean people inside of football don’t know that unicorn.
Today didn't help his case at all (not that there even should be a case at this stage). And we've got more games coming where I expect we'll get dominated.
Watching Villa pushing for CL football following a change of manager when they were relegation fodder kills any argument about keeping. ETH. Our squad is better than this. Get him out now.
It looks like we've won 1 of our last 8 games over the 90 minutes period and that was at home to the bottom club (beat Liverpool and Coventry in ET and on pens, respectively). With Palace, Arsenal, Newcastle, and Brighton to come, this could end even worse than I expected.
If you say so boss
4 pts from 4 Matches.
I don't see anything about this style that is ever going to work though, that's the problem.
We need to at least attempt to be a possession based team that hunts the ball down quickly to win it back when we lose it. Instead we're just permanently trying to get the ball forward quickly as soon as we get it with no control or patience whatsoever. We give the ball to the opposition, they beat our press and either create a chance or give it straight back to us and then we either counter attack or give it straight back to them. It's awful.
I'm willing to give a manager a chance when I see signs of something that's actually going to work.
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Adds nothing to the discussion, WUM and this isn’t your first time doing this to several posters. It’s not going unnoticed.
You can’t see the difference between a sporting structure involving Berrada, Wilcox and Ashworth a decision and trusting the general public?
Let’s keep politics out of this shall we and stick to Ten Hag.
And it was all very predictable 8 games ago just by watching how we were playing.
Based on your logic, since you're not a mod, you should leave that to those in position to make that judgment.
And if you don't like the parallels, maybe you should reflect on why that's the case.
Finally, I couldn't care less if you 'notice' me Mr. xG.
But we do have a process. It's clear that a deep sitting slow old defence screened by Casemiro cannot push up. Maguire and Lindelof are outdated. Evans, Varane and Casemiro and Erikson were too old, classic Glazer short term fixes that stored up problem for the season after next. And here we are. Again.
Martinez is the future. Mainoo is the future. Garnacho and Hojlund are the future. Onana and Dalot. But we need more. Even if the love child of Klopp and Pep were to become coach that would still be true.
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This again adds nothing to the discussion surrounding Ten Hag.
If you wish to debate my views on him by all means do but quoting me with this is just derailing the thread and wasting everyone’s time so stop trying and failing to WUM.
I have nothing else to say to you in this thread unless it’s related to Ten Hag.
The thing is why are people so obsessed with possession football? It's one thing to dominate teams on the ball and another to be a possession-based team. Sir Alex's teams regularly bossed possession, only rarely giving it up for tactical reasons, but they were not possession teams they were attacking teams. Why can't we play attacking football like that? Plus, we have no idea what Wilcox has been saying to ETH and the new owners behind the scenes. He's been here, what, a week? How has he drawn up a detailed plan of what the style of football ought to be at this club already? I doubt it.
Fine, here's something to mull over for you.
The fact we won't be able to beat a somewhat depleted and generally not all that great Villa side to CL football when they have kept winning in the Europa Conference league and we have had one game a week for all of 2024 is a huge indictment on this manager.
If it was the other way round, everyone would be giving excuses to EtH but barely anyone mentions this now when Emery has been fighting on both fronts.
Of course you are right. And so am I. None of this works with 50% of these players in the starting 11. And what we see instead is the lurchings of a Frankenstein trying to dance. But that won't change till we change the players.
Has he been sacked yet?
And we cant even start going about changing the players effectively until we have a new manager.
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This is a disingenuous argument given that up until this point in the season Villa haven’t been injury depleted anywhere near as much as we have as evidenced in one of my threads.
And they are now struggling a lot more (and also lost to us)
Data available for comparison here:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/aston-villa/ausfallzeiten/verein/405
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/ausfallzeiten/verein/985
You didn't hear the news?
You can’t hang about waiting for the next Sir Alex to fall into your lap though. Surely even you can admit, Ole aside, they’ve all proven themselves to be competent coaches. Even a competent coach should be able to get performances from the players we’ve had. It shouldn’t take the best, and only the best coach in the world before we start playing well. Leicester won the league with Ranieri ffs.
Voted "Yes".
Sacking him now would be a waste of money - something we can't afford. The Champions League clause will kick in after either Crystal Palace or Arsenal, depending on what happens with Aston Villa, both in the league and in Europe. From then on, it will be just 2 league games and the FA Cup final. I suppose an argument could be made a small manager bounce could help us for 5th, as Spurs will drop a lot of points, but I think that is in Newcastle's hands instead. 5th and 6th will be between those two teams. 7th is where we belong. Something else to consider is who would be insane enough to volunteer, and if it will be fair to have this mess thrust upon them?
And I guess the FA Cup final is his anyway. Let him have his last hurrah. We are getting smashed no matter who is in charge. After that, he should absolutely be sent packing. 2 years and almost half a billion to be in a worse state than we were before he took over. And we were awful back then.
That being said, I suspect very little will change after that anyway. The squad is of extremely poor quality, something this manager has played a big part in, and I have little faith in this supposed new regime to change things in that regard. So, whoever comes in will be the next in line for the gallows.
Something I feel like I should also mention is that the vitriol towards him from all sides has passed well into unacceptable territory. I doubt he wants to fail or is doing any of this on purpose. He has tried his best and not everything he did was bad. Had some good moments, too. His failure is a complex issue, and one of the reasons is falling short at the highest level. But not everything is his fault. Set up to fail is apt, and he didn’t help himself. It is what it is. Bear him no ill will and move on.
Sacking him now would be a waste of money - something we can't afford. The Champions League clause will kick in after either Crystal Palace or Arsenal, depending on what happens with Aston Villa, both in the league and in Europe. From then on, it will be just 2 league games and the FA Cup final. I suppose an argument could be made a small manager bounce could help us for 5th, as Spurs will drop a lot of points, but I think that is in Newcastle's hands instead. 5th and 6th will be between those two teams. 7th is where we belong. Something else to consider is who would be insane enough to volunteer, and if it will be fair to have this mess thrust upon them?
And I guess the FA Cup final is his anyway. Let him have his last hurrah. We are getting smashed no matter who is in charge. After that, he should absolutely be sent packing. 2 years and almost half a billion to be in a worse state than we were before he took over. And we were awful back then.
That being said, I suspect very little will change after that anyway. The squad is of extremely poor quality, something this manager has played a big part in, and I have little faith in this supposed new regime to change things in that regard. So, whoever comes in will be the next in line for the gallows.
Something I feel like I should also mention is that the vitriol towards him from all sides has passed well into unacceptable territory. I doubt he wants to fail or is doing any of this on purpose. He has tried his best and not everything he did was bad. Had some good moments, too. His failure is a complex issue, and one of the reasons is falling short at the highest level. But not everything is his fault. Set up to fail is apt, and he didn’t help himself. It is what it is. Bear him no ill will and move on.
One of the most entertaining teams In the league he says. One of the best at conceding chances and giving
away late goals.
away late goals.
You can blame him for the absolute tripe we’ve been watching for 14 months now. And his onfield decisions
Not everyone can have such elite mentalities like yourself. Have some sympathy for all the others that are simply beneath you because they don’t spew negativity like a broken dam.
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Can blame him for the finals, trophy and development of Mainoo, Dalot and Garnacho.
Ya give him a new contract I’m sold
It’s really silly to be talking about turning points at this point.Turning point after Sheffield
People are so naive, must be the 122nd turning point since Moyes
We’re roughly tenth-best in the league, maybe a bit lower. Like other teams at our level, like Bournemouth or Wolves, we sometimes look okay and oftentimes look very bad. The odd decent performance isn’t us showing our true colours, we’ve been showing them all season. It’s simply a middle-team being a middle-team.
Problem is, even when he's had his strongest team, he still plays the same way just with better players. And they still get exploited in the same way.
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