Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Someone]

He's a dead man walking but there's no point in sacking him before the final.

I still think his biggest sin was recruitment. Man did he get almost all his decisions wrong. The club clearly made a mistake in indulging him, but a good manager should know better.

His post match comments show desperation. He knows he's done.

 

[Redstain]

We’re finishing 8th this season I’m certain. Our lowest position since the great man retired.

After spending a gazillion pounds on transfer fees and wages. This club is such a mess.

Eth has to take the major share of the blame and has to leave.

What's worse is United had a successful season that particular year on account of the standards now. If Erik had a 04-05 United season he wouldn't have his employment up in the air for the next campaign.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I'm convinced ETH or his agent/ family are posting on here because some of our posters just tried making that point about us being entertaining just the other day. It's such a ridiculous point to make as a manager, as we're entertaining because we're wide open and give even the shittest teams plenty of chances. As a coach you should be embarrassed about that point, not celebrate it.

Tag those you feel are. We must root them out heh.

How is Tuchel, for example, not a better option? By what metric is ETH in even the same league as him as a coach?

To be fair a few seconds later I posted this.

I just don’t see a clearly better option yet.

Tuchel seems the most likely.

Tuchel is maybe better. But he’s not exactly inspiring and failing to win the Bundesliga this season is inexcusable.

 

[Pintu]

How is Tuchel, for example, not a better option? By what metric is ETH in even the same league as him as a coach?

Only argument to stay away from Tuchel would be his difficult character, not his qualities and technical abilities as a coach.

 

[Godfather]

No peep nothing on him getting the sack is really quite something. Hopefully not a sign of what's to come under Ratcliffe.

 

[TsuWave]

You hopefully are more than a sheep never questioning anything mate. It's OK to have opinions.

I have had the same discussion a few pages back and people got mad because I said that fans shouldn't see these people as infallible nor should they just follow every decision/what they say without questioning, as it isn't a healthy stance.

Insane stuff going on in this thread

 

[Pintu]

Tuchel is maybe better. But he’s not exactly inspiring and failing to win the Bundesliga this season is inexcusable.

Not if you put things in context… Leverkusen is having an extraordinary season, their points tally would have been very hard to beat no matter what Bayern does.

 

[Melville Red]

Who would you have in mind? Potter, O'Neil, McKenna are the stand outs from that criteria. I would't have an issue with any of them getting a chance, O'Neil in particular I have been very impressed with. I'd say ideally though, they would have proven themselves at a higher level.

In an ideal world I’d love to see McKenna get Ipswich up and do a good job in the Pl with them, ie finish midway would be an outstanding achievement then we could approach him but that is a season too late.
Not Potter, he has proved that he can’t handle a big club with the mess he made at Chelsea.
Theres not a lot to choose from is there? That in itself is a terrible reflection on the English game.
Maybe offer it too McKenna he will surely know the youngsters who could step up and that’s what this club needs young lads who will fight tooth and nail for this club because they are local and have grown up within the club.

 

[Verminator]

Wow!
Those quotes! Just WOW!

 

[didz]

Only argument to stay away from Tuchel would be his difficult character, not his qualities and technical abilities as a coach.

Personally I think the biggest reason would be his attitude towards youth.

He's a great tactician and is a bit of a self-styled firefighter for big clubs, but I don't see what identity or game model he has that we can really build upon. Despite an unfortunate result today and an undeniably disappointing season, Ten Hag does at least have those things going for him.

 

[Sarni]

What's worse is United had a successful season that particular year on account of the standards now. If Erik had a 04-05 United season he wouldn't have his employment up in the air for the next campaign.

Yeah he went back in time to our worst Premier League season in 2000s under Fergie to prove that we had our struggled even under him but still picked a season massively better than this year and better than last season too. 77 points with a +32 goal difference, just 26 conceded, there wouldn’t even be any discussion about sacking him now if we were having a season like that.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Not if you put things in context… Leverkusen is having an extraordinary season, their points tally would have been very hard to beat no matter what Bayern does.

Would people accept that excuse here? Anymore than they’ve accepted our injury crisis in defence? Our poor structure etc?

He’s lost a one horse race.

 

[TMDaines]

He’s just managing to get a very low level out of nearly everyone in the squad. So many players are unsuited to what they are being asked to do, and the team lacks any sort of cohesion. Even bloody Antony I’m at least intrigued to see under a new manager.

 

[Melville Red]

No peep nothing on him getting the sack is really quite something. Hopefully not a sign of what's to come under Ratcliffe.

Ratcliffe has moved Murtogh and Arnold out of the club so who knows what he and his mates have in store, I just hope it’s not Southgate or Potter.

 

[Godfather]

Would people accept that excuse here? Anymore than they’ve accepted our injury crisis in defence? Our poor structure etc?

He’s lost a one horse race.

Not a great season but not even remotely comparable to the shit show ETH is serving us this season. I'd give Tuchel a shot.

 

[flappyjay]

Not a great season but not even remotely comparable to the shit show ETH is serving us this season. I'd give Tuchel a shot.

He could be headed towards another ucl final. I'd give Tuchel a shot too even if madrid dump them out.

 

[hobbers]

We can. Changing the coach is going to make far less difference than you think

Hiring a competent manager who plays an intelligent system and who might value things like defending as a team, and set piece work, and how to dictate the tempo of a game, will make more than the world of difference.

We’ll at best move on 3 or 4 players and sign 3 players this summer. And those players could continue the same trends under ETH, bringing in chronically unfit, physically weak players. Olise has obviously already had the Hag seal of approval.

And worst still, without changing managers, we’d be trying to sign players who would all know they’d be joining up to play in the Europe conference with a lame duck on the cusp of getting sacked.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Not a great season but not even remotely comparable to the shit show ETH is serving us this season. I'd give Tuchel a shot.

Tuchel has had by far the strongest squad in the Bundesliga with a relatively fit squad and brought in arguably the best striker in the world in Kane and still couldn’t make it.

Ten Hag hasn’t got anywhere near the level of peak player and attacking and defensive options at his disposal.

It’s a failure to perform of course but my god there are so many extenuating factors. With Tuchel it’s just failure.

 

[Pintu]

Would people accept that excuse here? Anymore than they’ve accepted our injury crisis in defence? Our poor structure etc?

He’s lost a one horse race.

Yes, if we were missing Top 4/5 only because Villa and Spurs were consistent (they are not), and if we had made it to the KO stages of the CL. But unfortunately ETH managed to bottle a 2 goal lead against Copenhagen. Our worst CL campaign in 20 years.

In the league we are very lucky to be in the top half. Every relevant metrics has us 10th or below.

 

[westmeath]

Can’t believe so many people think he could / should be sacked before the Cup Final.

 

[pocco]

Tag those you feel are. We must root them out heh.

To be fair a few seconds later I posted this.

Tuchel is maybe better. But he’s not exactly inspiring and failing to win the Bundesliga this season is inexcusable.

That's a bit harsh, no? Inexcusable? Come on...Leverkusen are unbeaten all season. Like I said in another post, Bayern are on course for 78 points, which is as many points as they have had in 4 of the last 5 seasons. It's usually title winning points. And a CL semi final too.

Help me understand how you can easily excuse what we've had, but what Tuchel has done is inexcusable. If there's a team that have just had an amazing season then what can you do?

 

[hobbers]

Can’t believe so many people think he could / should be sacked before the Cup Final.

I’d say it’s more unusual so many so called united fans would happily hand over a second FA cup to city without even trying to win the game

 

[Rista]

Would people accept that excuse here? Anymore than they’ve accepted our injury crisis in defence? Our poor structure etc?

He’s lost a one horse race.

Disrespectful to Leverkusen considering the season they're having.

Funny how you're portraying 2nd place in the league and being in CL semis as a huge failure and yet using every excuse under the sun for ETH.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Can’t believe so many people think he could / should be sacked before the Cup Final.

Have you seen his record vs pep? People really want to win a trophy

 

[Pintu]

Tuchel has had by far the strongest squad in the Bundesliga with a relatively fit squad and brought in arguably the best striker in the world in Kane and still couldn’t make it.

Ten Hag hasn’t got anywhere near the level of peak player and attacking and defensive options at his disposal.

It’s a failure to perform of course but my god there are so many extenuating factors. With Tuchel it’s just failure.

Nobody is asking him to win the PL or the CL… Just to compete with Villa and Spurs in the league and to find a way to finish above Copenhagen and Galatasaray. The margin that United has over these teams is at least twice the one Tuchel has over his rivals in Germany.

 

[VP89]

Nobody is asking him to win the PL or the CL… Just to compete with Villa and Spurs in the league and to find a way to finish above Copenhagen and Galatasaray. The margin that United has over these teams is at least twice the one Tuchel has over his rivals in Germany.

The argument is if he can't navigate a Bundasliga campaign how can he navigate a PL one with United.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

Ten Hags Tactics - Take the ball up the other end and put one right in their fecking goal hole, but no dice

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Yes, if we were missing Top 4/5 only because Villa and Spurs were consistent (they are not), and if we had made it to the KO stages of the CL. But unfortunately ETH managed to bottle a 2 goal lead against Copenhagen. Our worst CL campaign in 20 years.

In the league we are very lucky to be in the top half. Every relevant metrics has us 10th or below.

But they aren’t just missing out on the title due to consistency of the other club.

In Jan 2024 there was widespread criticism of Tuchel having not managed to get Bayern playing a clear style of play.

He’s also publicly called out Kane, been knocked out of the German cup by a 3rd tier German side, only managed to win last season due to a late Dortmund collapse.

Lahm has criticised him as recently as yesterday for not having clearly defined roles too.

So I’m struggling to see how any of these current issues and criticisms in an easier league with a better squad would not be present and worse under the same circumstances Ten Hag has found himself in.

I don’t think the grass is greener. I just think it’s astroturf. Artificially looking better without good roots.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The argument is if he can't navigate a Bundasliga campaign how can he navigate a PL one with United.

Handled it just fine with Chelsea before Boehly gutted the team

 

[hobbers]

Tuchel would obviously be a mammoth upgrade on Ten Hag, a better manager in every fathomable department.

He’d also be really easy to sack if things go south.

So could prove to be a perfect bridge candidate while Ineos find their footing and Ashworth and Wilcox have time to do some legwork.

much better than the first Ineos season being one where we limp in from the very beginning with a guy who they don’t want and has already spectacularly failed his remit

 

[RedSky]

Just to be clear, these are the League stats for each Manager after their first 72 PL Games. Ten Hag equal on points with LVG and a significantly worse GD.

Manager​	Win Rate %	Loss Rate %	CS	Games	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Pts Per Game
Jose	55.56%	15.28%	34	72	40	21	11	117	55	+62	141	1.96
Ole	52.78%	22.22%	22	72	38	18	16	125	80	+45	132	1.83
Ten Hag	54.17%	29.17%	25	72	39	12	21	110	94	+16	129	1.79
LVG	51.39%	23.61%	28	72	37	18	17	104	67	+37	129	1.79

Since the League Cup Win we've played a total of 48 League Games and our points per game is 1.67 with a GD of +3

 

[mu4c_20le]

Like a leaky LVG

 

[BenitoSTARR]

That's a bit harsh, no? Inexcusable? Come on...Leverkusen are unbeaten all season. Like I said in another post, Bayern are on course for 78 points, which is as many points as they have had in 4 of the last 5 seasons. It's usually title winning points. And a CL semi final too.

Help me understand how you can easily excuse what we've had, but what Tuchel has done is inexcusable. If there's a team that have just had an amazing season then what can you do?

So you go all out for the actual top class manager Alonso not the one who has been outperformed.

Bundesliga with Bayern is as one horse as race as it gets unless you mess up.

Aston Villa have just had an amazing season for them. What can you do? See it doesn’t wash here?

Disrespectful to Leverkusen considering the season they're having.

Funny how you're portraying 2nd place in the league and being in CL semis as a huge failure and yet using every excuse under the sun for ETH.

Because 2nd place at Bayern is failure. It objectively is. He’s also fallen out with half of a Bayern including senior people at the club. Just like he did at PSG.

Leverkusen and Alonso have been outstanding I’d happily have Alonso here.

Nobody is asking him to win the PL or the CL… Just to compete with Villa and Spurs in the league and to find a way to finish above Copenhagen and Galatasaray. The margin that United has over these teams is at least twice the one Tuchel has over his rivals in Germany.

Teams played during their heights of our injury crisis. We also don’t have anywhere near the squad of Bayern, not the ease of league matches they do.

There are so many more things that go in favour of Bayern in the Bundesliga that it’s completely nonsense to ignore them.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Tuchel would obviously be a mammoth upgrade on Ten Hag, a better manager in every fathomable department.

He’d also be really easy to sack if things go south.

So could prove to be a perfect bridge candidate while Ineos find their footing and Ashworth and Wilcox have time to do some legwork.

much better than the first Ineos season being one where we limp in from the very beginning with a guy who they don’t want and has already spectacularly failed his remit

Really doubt he’d hack it in terms of scrutiny, pressure and overall personality.

He would fall out with too many people and be gone in a year and half.

 

[Rista]

Just to be clear, these are the League stats for each Manager after their first 72 PL Games. Ten Hag equal on points with LVG and a significantly worse GD.

​

Manager​	Win Rate %	Loss Rate %	CS	Games	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Pts Per Game
Jose	55.56%	15.28%	34	72	40	21	11	117	55	+62	141	1.96
Ole	52.78%	22.22%	22	72	38	18	16	125	80	+45	132	1.83
Ten Hag	54.17%	29.17%	25	72	39	12	21	110	94	+16	129	1.79
LVG	51.39%	23.61%	28	72	37	18	17	104	67	+37	129	1.79

Since the League Cup Win we've played a total of 48 League Games and our points per game is 1.67 with a GD of +3

29% loss rate To think people used to use his win rate stat as an argument for him to stay.

 

[Leftback99]

Just to be clear, these are the League stats for each Manager after their first 72 PL Games. Ten Hag equal on points with LVG and a significantly worse GD.

​

Manager​	Win Rate %	Loss Rate %	CS	Games	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Pts Per Game
Jose	55.56%	15.28%	34	72	40	21	11	117	55	+62	141	1.96
Ole	52.78%	22.22%	22	72	38	18	16	125	80	+45	132	1.83
Ten Hag	54.17%	29.17%	25	72	39	12	21	110	94	+16	129	1.79
LVG	51.39%	23.61%	28	72	37	18	17	104	67	+37	129	1.79

Since the League Cup Win we've played a total of 48 League Games and our points per game is 1.67 with a GD of +3

A +16 GD after 72 games is shockingly bad.

 

[Smores]

He knows he's gone and has for a couple of weeks I reckon. You don't talk that much shite unless it's just to divert blame and damage control your reputation.

This squad doesn't need as much work as people think, two starters and two squad signings would transform it under a decent manager. There's just no point letting Ten Hag spoil a new intake and another season.

 

[glazed]

Hiring a competent manager who plays an intelligent system and who might value things like defending as a team, and set piece work, and how to dictate the tempo of a game, will make more than the world of difference.

We’ll at best move on 3 or 4 players and sign 3 players this summer. And those players could continue the same trends under ETH, bringing in chronically unfit, physically weak players. Olise has obviously already had the Hag seal of approval.

And worst still, without changing managers, we’d be trying to sign players who would all know they’d be joining up to play in the Europe conference with a lame duck on the cusp of getting sacked.

In the end we're sacking the manager because it's easier than sacking the players. We've been doing that for years and it has got us nowhere.

It's very hard to continue with him because he hasn't done the impossible two seasons running. He's not going to make it to August obviously. I'm just saying he's not the problem and we will have the same issues after he's gone. Or worse ones if we bring in a Carrick and revert to counter attack for short term points.

 

[hobbers]

Really doubt he’d hack it in terms of scrutiny, pressure and overall personality.

He would fall out with too many people and be gone in a year and half.

That’s fine then.

One thing that’s obviously a very undervalued trait in a united manager is how easy it is for fans and owners to get over their reticence to sacking them.

There’s no amazing candidates, everyone out there is a big risk. So hire someone with credentials but who is easy to sack if someone more amazing pops up.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

29% loss rate To think people used to use his win rate stat as an argument for him to stay.

That's always been the flip side to the nonsensical "win %" argument. We don't draw a lot of games under him, at least not until recently.